Educate me, Re: Transgender child in CO (Page 2)

It's all over the place, and it depends who you ask. Some people identify with one or both terms, some with neither. I have never identified with transgender, and "transsexual" is something that's part of my past, so I don't identify with it, either.

In general, "transgender" is an umbrella term which encompasses all sorts of people, from drag queens, to crossdressers, part-timers, full-timers, and everything in between.

When I think of transsexual, I think of someone who has altered their body in a meaningful (read: permanent) to bring their body closer to their brain.

Having "both boy and girl parts" is called intersexed.

I honestly think the school is doing the right thing at this point. In my mind it is better to establish a policy now that if you do not have the right equipment for the correct bathroom, regardless of which one your associate with, you can use seperate bathrooms like they have offered. It makes more sense to start now and move forward with it as the child ages than to have her using this bathroom until kids in her class start hitting puberty and then suddenly have to change it to avoid any sort incident or alleged incident.

As far as the issue of whether this girl really has been able to self identify as female, I would ask you if a non-transgendered boy knows they are a boy by the time they are six? Does a non-transgendered girl know they are a girl at 6? or even at 3? Everything I have read says that they do, which is why it is no surprise to me that a child that age could identify as being the wrong gender. They may not be able to say why but my guess is they went to a therapist or psychologist who was able to help the family and child figure out what was going on, and offer them different options on how to approach it and how to support or work with the child.

Just to note, younger kids are super curious about body parts. I caught my son and the little neighbor girl checking each out when they were 3 right outside in the driveway. I'll show you mine if you show me yours kind of thing.

Gender identity disorder is a well accepted diagnosis in pediatrics.  For some kids  the etiology is unclear, for others there is a clear physiological component, such congenital adrenal hyperplasia or mixed gonadal dysgenesis.  These kids will typically identify with the opposite gender from an early age.  Kids who are forced to live in the other identity tend to do worse psychologically, but even with acceptance these kids tend to have a tough time.  

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001527.htm

julio26pt2 - 2013-02-27 12:01 PM

You got that right.... wow is my only comment!

Really fascinating.  I guess I just never would have thought that by age 6 a kid could that strongly identify with the other gender.  So much of gender IS how you were raised.  I mean...from the get-go we put girls in pink and boys in blue.  We practically TRAIN them to want to play with certain toys and do certain things.  As someone else said, maybe it's just a phase that the kid will grow out of.  Or maybe it really is that they identified it early.  But if that's the case I don't really see the harm in what the school is doing...until the kid is older and you are "100% sure" it isn't a phase they will grow out of then they need to be able to draw a line to protect everyone, right?  I definitely see the need to let the kid explore and "figure it out", but aren't the parents maybe almost working TOO hard to support the "identifies as a girl" piece?  It's almost like the reverse of forcing the kid to identify with physical gender.  In this case they are trying to force the school to support identifying as a girl.  I'd be more interested in seeing both sides stay neutral (i.e. not "favor" either gender) so the child is really deciding for his/her self...

This is only my opinion, but by the school doing an about face with how this child is being treated, it's singling her out to the rest of the school population as being different.  Making her either use the boys bathroom or use a 'neutral' bathroom I don't think is going to help her as she grows up, I would think (and again, this is just my opinion) that this would only lead to her feeling ostracized and even more different than she might already feel. 

That's kind of my point...if everyone just stayed neutral and let him/her use whatever bathroom they wanted then IMHO that is truly letting the kid decide where they are most comfortable.  BUT, that being said...the school has to have SOME rules about who is allowed to use what bathroom or they could probably face lawsuits or problems in the future.  It's a no-win for everyone really.

I can totally believe that a child may recognize that they do not relate to their gender at a young age.  But I totally support the school in it's decision.  They provided options, and at the end of the day, while I don't see a problem with a 6 YO using the girls bathroom, I do have a problem with it when the child is older.  It is inappropriate.  And it is probably good for the child to get used to this now.

This is where the rights of one should not impact the rights of everyone else.

I think you're absolutely right - it's a no-win situation which makes me sad, but I don't know what the right answer here is that won't make someone upset.  It would be nice if the school would let the child decide which bathroom to use, but I don't foresee that happening. 

Should we do that for all kids? 

Yes, I realize that this child is "different"....but that's the point. 

She is different than the other kids.  What we should strive for, IMO, is the idea that being "different" is Ok......the idea that "we are all the same" doesn't work....because we're not.

So the answer is to make a 6 year old feel even more "different" from every other child in the school?  I don't see how that's a good idea. 

Blueyebikergirl - So, you think that a 6 year old is self-aware of her sexuality but not aware that she is different from other girls?  I doubt that.

She is different.....no problem.  I teach my children to embrace the fact that there are people in the world much different than they are....a good thing....keeps life interesting.

Pretending she is not different is good for no one.

I'm not going to get in an argument here.  You have your opinions and I have mine. 

I work from the assumption that if someone identifies as a "she", and wears dresses, I call her "her" or "she" and I except this individual to use the women's rest room. It's no better/safer/smarter/appropriate for a person wearing a female clothes to enter the men's room.  This little kid could use the girls bathroom everywhere, without even a thought, except a the places where people know she "was a boy" last year. 

I think the school is worrying more about what the adults will say/think than the kids.  I would bet the kids, without prompting help from parents, wouldn't care if Coy uses the girls bathroom.   Kids are more open minded until adults start putting ideas in their heads.  It's even easier in her case since there are stalls and going to the potty is pretty private.   Now, if she's going to the little boys room and the boys are using the urinals and that's easier to accept?

Regarding conditioning:   I have a girlfriend who happens to be pretty much a tomboy.  Doesn't do glitter/pink/girly stuff. Little to know makeup, doesn't dress in a body conscious way.  She had a daughter and was the type to paint the nursery green, etc.   Despite that, her daughter is the girliest of all girls.  Even before she was more socialized in school, she asked for dolls and play kitchens and pink glitter.  I think it's funny; my girlfriend is still getting used to it.

This discussion isn't about sexuality; it's about gender identity. There's a huge difference.

Can you explain to me how people's rights are impacted when, say, a 12-year old who identifies as a girl, blends in with the other girls (or even if she doesn't actually), behaves in an appropriate manner, enters a stall, closes the door, does her business, gets up, washes her hands, and leaves?

Well, that IS kinda the point of the whole deal, isn't it?  What if it makes the other girls uncomfortable?  Too bad?  What if it makes ONE other girl uncomfortable?  Tough? 

The school did well as far as I'm concerned.  They are making an exception for an exceptional child.  Nice.

Yes, too bad. The uncomfortable parties can use the gender-neutral restroom.

What if all of the other girls are uncomfortable with it?

Unfortunately nature would dictate that the child leave the seat up even if "she" sat down to pee. It's just nature and science. This would obviously impact the other girls or so I gather from all the biothcin my wife does about the toilet seat.