Defending Obamacare (Page 2)

Not commenting on Obamacare, per se, but if you wonder why the discourse around controversial topics has turned most threads into a right-wing, conservative boys club, look no further: 

• We have a post asking anyone to defend Obamacare. 
• Then we have 15+ posts that essentially ridicule Obamacare and other non-conservative policies, same people, same discourse.
• Then one person (a doctor, nonetheless) steps in and gives it a shot, with essentially some valid points.
• And in response, sarcasm and criticism, not dialogue. (ETA: this was posted before Tony's response, which was on topic and respectful). 

It's creating a conservative mob mentality in many COJ threads, where fewer and fewer people will want to have a dialogue as when they try, they get overwhelmed, and over time, tired. Then they stop, as it's like trying to have a discussion with the tide or the sunrise.  It's not against forum rules, per se, it's just not very respectful or conducive to what the OP hoped, which was for someone to bring forward another point of view.   

My opinions only, not as a mod, but as someone that used to enjoy COJ. Carry on. 

Not commenting on Obamacare, per se, but if you wonder why the discourse around controversial topics has turned most threads into a right-wing, conservative boys club, look no further: 

• We have a post asking anyone to defend Obamacare. 
• Then we have 15+ posts that essentially ridicule Obamacare and other non-conservative policies, same people, same discourse.

I don't think anyone denies that there aren't good things in Obamacare, but the problem is they all cost money and people have to pay for that.  There's no way to do all the things you just mentioned without increasing costs to insurance.

Lets just say Obamacare as an insurance option wasn't part of this law and they just made it law to cover all the things you mentioned.  Even with the mandated percentage of premiums going towards healthcare the costs would go through the roof on insurance.  Insurance companies make money, but my understanding is they only run something like 3% profit margins so they'd have to cut a lot of staff/expense to absorb much.

Not commenting on Obamacare, per se, but if you wonder why the discourse around controversial topics has turned most threads into a right-wing, conservative boys club, look no further: 

• We have a post asking anyone to defend Obamacare. 
• Then we have 15+ posts that essentially ridicule Obamacare and other non-conservative policies, same people, same discourse.
• Then one person (a doctor, nonetheless) steps in and gives it a shot, with essentially some valid points.
• And in response, sarcasm and criticism, not dialogue. (ETA: this was posted before Tony's response, which was on topic and respectful). 

It's creating a conservative mob mentality in many COJ threads, where fewer and fewer people will want to have a dialogue as when they try, they get overwhelmed, and over time, tired. Then they stop, as it's like trying to have a discussion with the tide or the sunrise.  It's not against forum rules, per se, it's just not very respectful or conducive to what the OP hoped, which was for someone to bring forward another point of view.   

My opinions only, not as a mod, but as someone that used to enjoy COJ. Carry on. 

Obamacare IS the whole thing - you cannot get the rest without it.

the statistic quoted about it not being a favorable bill is misleading because if you look at the Kaiser study people DO like all the things I listed.  ONLY the mandate gets an unfavorable rating. the mandate was a GIMME to the insurance lobby.

Well said, and thank you.  I read the start of this thread, and the only thing that comes to my mind is amazement that the same 10-15 people can post thread after thread where they agree with each other over and over.

No, the mandate is the only way they could hope to even begin paying for it.

How in your opinion is all this going to be paid for? And without the mandate forcing young healthy people to buy in at the 3 to 1 ratio how would they pay for it?

Obamacare IS the whole thing - you cannot get the rest without it.

the statistic quoted about it not being a favorable bill is misleading because if you look at the Kaiser study people DO like all the things I listed.  ONLY the mandate gets an unfavorable rating. the mandate was a GIMME to the insurance lobby.

No the mandate was the insurance company saying we cannot accept all comers without it our risk pool will be skewed. And they lobbied to have the public option removed.

Medicare runs with 3-6% overhead - FAR less than private insurers  and that is without even counting the frankly disgusting salaries the CEOs make.

No the mandate was the insurance company saying we cannot accept all comers without it our risk pool will be skewed. And they lobbied to have the public option removed.

Medicare runs with 3-6% overhead - FAR less than private insurers  and that is without even counting the frankly disgusting salaries the CEOs make.

Obamacare IS the whole thing - you cannot get the rest without it.

the statistic quoted about it not being a favorable bill is misleading because if you look at the Kaiser study people DO like all the things I listed.  ONLY the mandate gets an unfavorable rating. the mandate was a GIMME to the insurance lobby.

Good points about the Affordable Care Act, doc.  

I'll add that in Mississippi, our government hasn't even voted to fund Medicaid for next year because the Republican controlled house won't call a special session unless the Democrats promise not to bring up expansion.  Yep.  They are playing chicken with the funding of the entire program because they are so adamant about not expanding Medicaid, even though nearly every medical association in the state supports it and it would mean health insurance for 300,000 of our citizens.  Yet we somehow keep finding room for tax incentives for private businesses.

1. Patients are no longer threatened with lifetime caps on coverage. Families no longer have to make the hard choices of delaying care or facing bankruptcy.

2. Children with pre-existing conditions are no longer being denied coverage. Insurance companies can no longer deny coverage to children under the age of 19 because of a pre-existing condition or disability.

3. Young adults are getting covered on their parents’ insurance. Many medical students in Doctors for America are now covered thanks to this provision. Over 6.6 million people age 19-26 have gotten insured so far!

4. We are shifting toward prevention. Preventive services are now free for Medicare and new insurance plans. For the first time, we have a National Prevention Strategy. And the Prevention and Public Health Fund is helping communities launch new programs to improve healthy living.

5. People and communities are focusing efforts on preventing disease. $750 million in 2010 and $500 million in 2011 have already gone to programs in tobacco cessation, obesity prevention, care coordination, behavioral health, and more in all 50 states.

6. Seniors are getting help with prescription drugs. 4 million seniors in every state got rebate checks in 2010. In 2011, they started getting a 50% discount on brand-name drugs in the Medicare prescription coverage gap.

7. Hospitals are gearing up to improve quality and safety. Medicare reimbursement changes in 2012 are getting hospitals around the country to step up efforts to prevent hospital-acquired infections and to keep people from landing back in the hospital within 30 days of going home.

8. Small businesses are getting help covering employees. Up to 4 million small businesses that employ 16 million people are eligible for 35% tax credits on health insurance premiums right now. Note: small businesses will not be required to buy insurance under the law.

9. Insurance companies have a new limit on profits. Insurance companies have to spend at least 80% of premium dollars on health care. In the large-group market (big employers), they must spend at least 85% on health care -- so more of our premium dollars go to health instead of administration and executive salaries. In the summer of 2012, 12.8 million individuals will be receiving rebates from insurance companies who have failed to meet these minimum spending requirements. (so the increases you are quoting will end up being refunded)

10. We are training thousands more health care providers to take care of people. Over $320 million in grants is already boosting primary care residency programs, training physician assistants, and helping states create innovative plans for their unique health care workforce needs.

Not commenting on Obamacare, per se, but if you wonder why the discourse around controversial topics has turned most threads into a right-wing, conservative boys club, look no further: 

• We have a post asking anyone to defend Obamacare. 
• Then we have 15+ posts that essentially ridicule Obamacare and other non-conservative policies, same people, same discourse.
• Then one person (a doctor, nonetheless) steps in and gives it a shot, with essentially some valid points.
• And in response, sarcasm and criticism, not dialogue. (ETA: this was posted before Tony's response, which was on topic and respectful). 

It's creating a conservative mob mentality in many COJ threads, where fewer and fewer people will want to have a dialogue as when they try, they get overwhelmed, and over time, tired. Then they stop, as it's like trying to have a discussion with the tide or the sunrise.  It's not against forum rules, per se, it's just not very respectful or conducive to what the OP hoped, which was for someone to bring forward another point of view.   

My opinions only, not as a mod, but as someone that used to enjoy COJ. Carry on. 

Those same people aren't going to pay any premium so the taxpayer will get to foot the bill as we do now.

This will add people who don't go for everything little thing, now they will because "they are covered" heavily subsidized, but covered. 

Yes. I liked COJ. Now.. meh. 

signups start in October

I recall a time, not too long ago, when the right leaning folks were in the minority here in COJ.  So where did the other side go?  Perhaps disenfranchised?

I recall a time, not too long ago, when the right leaning folks were in the minority here in COJ.  So where did the other side go?  Perhaps disenfranchised?