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Higher Insurance Cost for Smokers (Page 2)
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 2013-06-20 1:43 PM in reply to: Rogillio |
Pro  4313   McKinney, TX |  Subject: RE: Higher Insurance Cost for SmokersOriginally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by RussTKD Originally posted by Rogillio A very good friend of mine. Just becuase your don't know it, does not make it crap. It's crap and you know it. Wow, so now you know what I know! That's remarkable! Tell me, do I know how to solve partial differential equations and perform continuity, isolation and high-pot tests? The picture in the ad is pretty good. 17 years ago I was a smoker. It kept me thin. :-) You can argue that all you want but I lived it. The obesity thread is now null and void. Obesity has now been cured.....just smoke! |
| 2013-06-20 1:43 PM in reply to: Rogillio |
358 | Subject: RE: Higher Insurance Cost for Smokers Originally posted by RogillioWow, so now you know what I know! That's remarkable! Tell me, do I know how to solve partial differential equations and perform continuity, isolation and high-pot tests? The picture in the ad is pretty good. 17 years ago I was a smoker. It kept me thin. :-) You can argue that all you want but I lived it.
17 years ago I was also a smoker, and thin. But I don't think one had to do with the other.
I'm sure you know insurance plays on statistics and averages. Do you honestly believe there are a statistically significant number of smokers who only smoke 2-3 cigarettes per day as a means of staying thin, or are you using your one red herring example to try to twist your opinion of the subject to match your personal ideology? |
| 2013-06-20 2:24 PM in reply to: Rogillio |
Master 3205 ann arbor, michigan | Subject: RE: Higher Insurance Cost for Smokers Yes, we have the carrot aproach for obesity too. The difference is that you can live without smoking. You can't live without food. We have discussed this extensively on another thread here. I have a modest proposal related to health care and to smoking:  How about we continue to allow smoking in America but you would need a license to smoke. Anyone who wants to purchase any smoking-related materials would have to present their smoking license. No smoking license, no cigarettes, tobacco, cigars, etc. Providing smoking products to someone without a smoking license would have an onerous penalty associated with it, like 10 years in jail.... Here is where it gets exciting...... In order to obtain your smoking license you would need to sign a contract that would waive your right to health care for smoking-related illness. When people come in to the ER or a hospital or a doctor's office, their name would be checked against the national smoking license registry. If you are on it, then I am sorry but we can give you palliative or comfort care but you aren't getting the million dollar work up for cardiac or pulmonary or vascular or any other disease. You surely aren't getting coronary bypass surgery or a lung resection or even surgery for your bladder tumor. We will absolutely treat your discomfort. This will cut billions out of our national health care bill. It will also probably half the need for physicians in America. We have solved two problems. We have cut our national health bill dramatically and we have improved access to health care for people not on the smoking license list. Win-win. I am actually a very forgiving guy. You should be able to get your name off of the list. Say, you give up your smoking license and then in 3.5 years we will allow you to become eligible for health care again. (Although much of the damage from smoking is lifelong and irreversible...) I know, I know. It can't happen. And then there is the slippery slope...... We would need the alcohol license and the inappropriate height to weight ratio list and on and on. But, you have to start somewhere. It is just a little thinking outside of the box. And lets face it, tobacco should be flat-out illegal. It has no redeeming qualities and has been proven to kill its users. A company trying to introduce tobacco as a 'new product' today would be laughed out of the FDAs offices. If we can outlaw lead paint and asbestos insulation, tobacco should be a no-brainer. Oh wait, I forgot about the tobacco lobbyists.... |
| 2013-06-20 2:30 PM in reply to: bradleyd3 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: Higher Insurance Cost for Smokers Originally posted by bradleyd3 Originally posted by Rogillio The obesity thread is now null and void. Obesity has now been cured.....just smoke! Originally posted by RussTKD Wow, so now you know what I know! That's remarkable! Tell me, do I know how to solve partial differential equations and perform continuity, isolation and high-pot tests? The picture in the ad is pretty good. 17 years ago I was a smoker. It kept me thin. :-) You can argue that all you want but I lived it. Originally posted by Rogillio A very good friend of mine. Just becuase your don't know it, does not make it crap. It's crap and you know it. The cure for my obesity disease was less beer drinky and more worky outy... Plus a WHOLE LOT of caffein!
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| 2013-06-20 3:13 PM in reply to: Kido |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: Higher Insurance Cost for Smokers Originally posted by Kido Originally posted by bradleyd3 Originally posted by Rogillio The obesity thread is now null and void. Obesity has now been cured.....just smoke! Originally posted by RussTKD Wow, so now you know what I know! That's remarkable! Tell me, do I know how to solve partial differential equations and perform continuity, isolation and high-pot tests? The picture in the ad is pretty good. 17 years ago I was a smoker. It kept me thin. :-) You can argue that all you want but I lived it. Originally posted by Rogillio A very good friend of mine. Just becuase your don't know it, does not make it crap. It's crap and you know it. The cure for my obesity disease was less beer drinky and more worky outy... Plus a WHOLE LOT of caffein!
Too much caffein is bad for you too. I think the obesity/smoking/alcoholism are all related. Some people just tend to gravitate towards excess. I am admit my OCD. When I smoked, I was a (nearly) 2 pack a day smoker. When I quit, I fed my obsessive personality. I started running to get rid of a few pounds and before I knew it I was doing marathons. Bottom line is, I think charging smokers more for health insurance unfairly targets a demographic that can ill afford it. |
| 2013-06-20 3:33 PM in reply to: Rogillio |
Master 2725 Washington, DC Metro | Subject: RE: Higher Insurance Cost for Smokers Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by Kido Too much caffein is bad for you too. I think the obesity/smoking/alcoholism are all related. Some people just tend to gravitate towards excess. I am admit my OCD. When I smoked, I was a (nearly) 2 pack a day smoker. When I quit, I fed my obsessive personality. I started running to get rid of a few pounds and before I knew it I was doing marathons. Bottom line is, I think charging smokers more for health insurance unfairly targets a demographic that can ill afford it. Originally posted by bradleyd3 Originally posted by Rogillio The obesity thread is now null and void. Obesity has now been cured.....just smoke! Originally posted by RussTKD Wow, so now you know what I know! That's remarkable! Tell me, do I know how to solve partial differential equations and perform continuity, isolation and high-pot tests? The picture in the ad is pretty good. 17 years ago I was a smoker. It kept me thin. :-) You can argue that all you want but I lived it. Originally posted by Rogillio A very good friend of mine. Just becuase your don't know it, does not make it crap. It's crap and you know it. The cure for my obesity disease was less beer drinky and more worky outy... Plus a WHOLE LOT of caffein!
A demographic that can ill afford it???? What are cigs going for these days??? 5-6 bucks a pack?? At a 2 pack a day habit, I'd say that they can easily afford it if they are spending $10 a day on their death inducing habit. |
| 2013-06-20 4:07 PM in reply to: Sous |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: Higher Insurance Cost for Smokers All I want to know is if funds are pooled, and charging more for high risk is becoming common, then why am I not paying less? |
| 2013-06-20 4:29 PM in reply to: powerman |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: Higher Insurance Cost for Smokers Originally posted by powerman All I want to know is if funds are pooled, and charging more for high risk is becoming common, then why am I not paying less? ACA. (Obamacare) |
| 2013-06-20 4:34 PM in reply to: Rogillio |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: Higher Insurance Cost for Smokers Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by powerman All I want to know is if funds are pooled, and charging more for high risk is becoming common, then why am I not paying less? ACA. (Obamacare) No seriously... I want a refund. |
| 2013-06-20 4:35 PM in reply to: Sous |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: Higher Insurance Cost for Smokers Originally posted by Sous Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by Kido Too much caffein is bad for you too. I think the obesity/smoking/alcoholism are all related. Some people just tend to gravitate towards excess. I am admit my OCD. When I smoked, I was a (nearly) 2 pack a day smoker. When I quit, I fed my obsessive personality. I started running to get rid of a few pounds and before I knew it I was doing marathons. Bottom line is, I think charging smokers more for health insurance unfairly targets a demographic that can ill afford it. Originally posted by bradleyd3 Originally posted by Rogillio The obesity thread is now null and void. Obesity has now been cured.....just smoke! Originally posted by RussTKD Wow, so now you know what I know! That's remarkable! Tell me, do I know how to solve partial differential equations and perform continuity, isolation and high-pot tests? The picture in the ad is pretty good. 17 years ago I was a smoker. It kept me thin. :-) You can argue that all you want but I lived it. Originally posted by Rogillio A very good friend of mine. Just becuase your don't know it, does not make it crap. It's crap and you know it. The cure for my obesity disease was less beer drinky and more worky outy... Plus a WHOLE LOT of caffein!
A demographic that can ill afford it???? What are cigs going for these days??? 5-6 bucks a pack?? At a 2 pack a day habit, I'd say that they can easily afford it if they are spending $10 a day on their death inducing habit. Pretty heartless. Guess you've never been poor. So they have $600 or $1200 a year less if husband and wife smoke. Yeah, they can afford that.....kids don't need to eat everyday anyway since they are obese. What a great plan! We will get them healthy so they can walk to work when their pos car breaks down and they can't afford to fix it. |
| 2013-06-20 4:51 PM in reply to: Rogillio |
| 358 | Subject: RE: Higher Insurance Cost for Smokers Originally posted by Rogillio Pretty heartless. Guess you've never been poor. So they have $600 or $1200 a year less if husband and wife smoke. Yeah, they can afford that.....kids don't need to eat everyday anyway since they are obese. What a great plan! We will get them healthy so they can walk to work when their pos car breaks down and they can't afford to fix it.
Pay $500 a year extra to have insurance and keep smoking a pack a day, or quit, save $1800 from not buying smokes, and not pay the extra premium.
Hmm... tough decision. |
| 2013-06-20 5:11 PM in reply to: 0 |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: Higher Insurance Cost for Smokers Originally posted by RussTKD Originally posted by Rogillio Pretty heartless. Guess you've never been poor. So they have $600 or $1200 a year less if husband and wife smoke. Yeah, they can afford that.....kids don't need to eat everyday anyway since they are obese. What a great plan! We will get them healthy so they can walk to work when their pos car breaks down and they can't afford to fix it.
Pay $500 a year extra to have insurance and keep smoking a pack a day, or quit, save $1800 from not buying smokes, and not pay the extra premium.
Hmm... tough decision. Your empathy is appalling. If addiction was about money, people would have quit long ago. Unbelievable. Households with annual incomes exceeding $150,000 had a smoking rate under 8 percent, compared with a nearly 20% rate among those with annual incomes less than $20,000.. The smoking rate among college graduates in California is 6 percent. Those without degrees: 12 to 15% Yeah, let's stick it to the poor, uneducated folk. That'll break em! One way or another. Edited by Rogillio 2013-06-20 5:19 PM |
| 2013-06-20 5:15 PM in reply to: Rogillio |
| 358 | Subject: RE: Higher Insurance Cost for Smokers Originally posted by RogillioYour empathy is appalling. If addiction was about money, people would have quit long ago. Unbelievable.
My kid has one grandparent and it's directly attributable to smoking. Sorry I'm not empathetic about losing my parents at 62 and 64, and my wife losing her Dad at 61. |
| 2013-06-20 5:16 PM in reply to: wannabefaster |
Expert 3126 Boise, ID | Subject: RE: Higher Insurance Cost for Smokers Originally posted by wannabefaster Yes, we have the carrot aproach for obesity too. How about we continue to allow smoking in America but you would need a license to smoke. Anyone who wants to purchase any smoking-related materials would have to present their smoking license. No smoking license, no cigarettes, tobacco, cigars, etc. Providing smoking products to someone without a smoking license would have an onerous penalty associated with it, like 10 years in jail.... Here is where it gets exciting...... In order to obtain your smoking license you would need to sign a contract that would waive your right to health care for smoking-related illness. When people come in to the ER or a hospital or a doctor's office, their name would be checked against the national smoking license registry. If you are on it, then I am sorry but we can give you palliative or comfort care but you aren't getting the million dollar work up for cardiac or pulmonary or vascular or any other disease. You surely aren't getting coronary bypass surgery or a lung resection or even surgery for your bladder tumor. We will absolutely treat your discomfort. This will cut billions out of our national health care bill. It will also probably half the need for physicians in America. We have solved two problems. We have cut our national health bill dramatically and we have improved access to health care for people not on the smoking license list. Win-win. I am actually a very forgiving guy. You should be able to get your name off of the list. Say, you give up your smoking license and then in 3.5 years we will allow you to become eligible for health care again. (Although much of the damage from smoking is lifelong and irreversible...) I know, I know. It can't happen. And then there is the slippery slope...... We would need the alcohol license and the inappropriate height to weight ratio list and on and on. But, you have to start somewhere. It is just a little thinking outside of the box. And lets face it, tobacco should be flat-out illegal. It has no redeeming qualities and has been proven to kill its users. A company trying to introduce tobacco as a 'new product' today would be laughed out of the FDAs offices. If we can outlaw lead paint and asbestos insulation, tobacco should be a no-brainer. Oh wait, I forgot about the tobacco lobbyists.... You take that back right now!!! Nothing like a nice bowl of pipe tobacco once in a blue moon. And yes, I am a non-smoker. |
| 2013-06-20 5:25 PM in reply to: RussTKD |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: Higher Insurance Cost for Smokers Originally posted by RussTKD Originally posted by RogillioYour empathy is appalling. If addiction was about money, people would have quit long ago. Unbelievable.
My kid has one grandparent and it's directly attributable to smoking. Sorry I'm not empathetic about losing my parents at 62 and 64, and my wife losing her Dad at 61. So you'd rather they died broke? Money is NOT gonna make most people quit. |
| 2013-06-20 5:31 PM in reply to: RussTKD |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: Higher Insurance Cost for Smokers Originally posted by RussTKD Originally posted by RogillioYour empathy is appalling. If addiction was about money, people would have quit long ago. Unbelievable.
My kid has one grandparent and it's directly attributable to smoking. Sorry I'm not empathetic about losing my parents at 62 and 64, and my wife losing her Dad at 61. You might want to look up empathy. |
| 2013-06-20 7:15 PM in reply to: wannabefaster |
Master 2380 Beijing | Subject: RE: Higher Insurance Cost for Smokers Originally posted by wannabefaster Yes, we have the carrot aproach for obesity too.
OMG! I couldn't even read farther. He said "we should eat the smokers!" didn't he?!?!
Oh the Humanity! |
| 2013-06-20 7:32 PM in reply to: moondawg14 |
Champion 14571 the alamo city, Texas | Subject: RE: Higher Insurance Cost for Smokers Originally posted by moondawg14 The difference is that you can live without smoking. You can't live without food. We have discussed this extensively on another thread here. I have a modest proposal related to health care and to smoking: Originally posted by wannabefaster Yes, we have the carrot aproach for obesity too.
OMG! I couldn't even read farther. He said "we should eat the smokers!" didn't he?!?!
Oh the Humanity! far too clever of a joke for this crowd. |
| 2013-06-20 7:50 PM in reply to: Rogillio |
| 358 | Subject: RE: Higher Insurance Cost for Smokers Originally posted by RogillioYou might want to look up empathy. I know what empathy means. I was negotiating a bike deal via Craigslist. I should have said I'm not sympathetic about someone who is poor and still chooses to smoke. I'm fairly certain they're not empathetic regarding my feelings about smoking. |
| 2013-06-20 11:43 PM in reply to: Rogillio |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: Higher Insurance Cost for Smokers Originally posted by RogillioToo much caffein is bad for you too. I think the obesity/smoking/alcoholism are all related. Some people just tend to gravitate towards excess. I am admit my OCD. When I smoked, I was a (nearly) 2 pack a day smoker. When I quit, I fed my obsessive personality. I started running to get rid of a few pounds and before I knew it I was doing marathons. Bottom line is, I think charging smokers more for health insurance unfairly targets a demographic that can ill afford it. So if I'm understanding you correctly, insurance rates shouldn't be raised for those that have habits that are significantly higher health risks because it impacts those more who are of lower income?Who pays for the medical expenses of those who partake in these high risk habits? I suppose it gets spread out among everyone, even those who don't smoke. I guess I'll have my rates go up to pay for their bad health habits. Seems a tad unfair I will have to pay for someone's unhealthy lifestyle. Well, if i have to pay for it, I sure hope they love those cigarettes. |
| 2013-06-21 5:24 AM in reply to: Kido |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: Higher Insurance Cost for Smokers Originally posted by Kido Originally posted by RogillioToo much caffein is bad for you too. I think the obesity/smoking/alcoholism are all related. Some people just tend to gravitate towards excess. I am admit my OCD. When I smoked, I was a (nearly) 2 pack a day smoker. When I quit, I fed my obsessive personality. I started running to get rid of a few pounds and before I knew it I was doing marathons. Bottom line is, I think charging smokers more for health insurance unfairly targets a demographic that can ill afford it. So if I'm understanding you correctly, insurance rates shouldn't be raised for those that have habits that are significantly higher health risks because it impacts those more who are of lower income?Who pays for the medical expenses of those who partake in these high risk habits? I suppose it gets spread out among everyone, even those who don't smoke. I guess I'll have my rates go up to pay for their bad health habits. Seems a tad unfair I will have to pay for someone's unhealthy lifestyle. Well, if i have to pay for it, I sure hope they love those cigarettes. I think they do love the cigarettes...so much so they can't imagine life without them. Such is the nature of addiction for some of us. Others won't understand because they never wanted a cigarette so bad they'd pay $1000 for just one drag. I've been there! |
| 2013-06-21 9:05 AM in reply to: mehaner |
| Member 354 | Subject: RE: Higher Insurance Cost for Smokers Originally posted by mehaner Originally posted by moondawg14 The difference is that you can live without smoking. You can't live without food. We have discussed this extensively on another thread here. I have a modest proposal related to health care and to smoking: Originally posted by wannabefaster Yes, we have the carrot aproach for obesity too.
OMG! I couldn't even read farther. He said "we should eat the smokers!" didn't he?!?!
Oh the Humanity! far too clever of a joke for this crowd. I got it. Well, well done. ...you should change your nickname to "Swifty." Apropos and it even sounds tri-related, too! |
| 2013-06-22 7:52 PM in reply to: 0 |
Veteran 869 Stevens Point, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Higher Insurance Cost for Smokers The cost can easily be offset by quitting. Actually you would save money! Same insurance premium + less of a cost of smoking. There is help out there if you want it, there should be more it is difficult to quit, and many people including myself needed help. I was lucky to have great insurance, they were very supportive in assisting me to quit. Free Chantix prescription. I even got a $50 visa card this year for being tobacco free (blood cotinine test) I was poor when I smoked, I was also poor because I smoked. Not only would I buy a pack a day for $7.23 I would get 2 drinks for $2.22 That's $9.45 a day, or a staggering $3449.25 a year. If a parent cant afford to feed their kids and has this expense (and I'm sure there are plenty out there), they are irresponsible parents. I think this is a discussion for another thread though. And to the few people who would use cigarettes for weight control, to them I say, to bad. It has to be such a small percentage that we can't or should not cater to them.
Or how about I throw some jet fuel on the fire and ask; "What if we made tobacco illegal"? I don't think we should, but would not be sad to see it made that way either.
Edited by Justin86 2013-06-22 7:57 PM |
| 2013-06-22 11:42 PM in reply to: Justin86 |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: Higher Insurance Cost for Smokers Originally posted by Justin86 Or how about I throw some jet fuel on the fire and ask; "What if we made tobacco illegal"? I don't think we should, but would not be sad to see it made that way either.
Absolutely. It's worked wonders for weed, heroin, and alcohol. |
| 2013-06-22 11:59 PM in reply to: powerman |
Veteran 869 Stevens Point, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Higher Insurance Cost for Smokers Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by Justin86 Or how about I throw some jet fuel on the fire and ask; "What if we made tobacco illegal"? I don't think we should, but would not be sad to see it made that way either.
Absolutely. It's worked wonders for weed, heroin, and alcohol. Great point there, didn't even think of that when I posted. I still wouldn't be sad to see it be illegal, but you're right it wouldn't work at all. |
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