Do you just have "it" or not? (Page 2)

To a certain extent - I get the whole having 'IT' thing... It's simple genetics... I can handle that.

To me - there are competitors and participants. I just comfort myself that I improve, even if it's just 5% from year over year. Don let it having 'IT' mess with your head.

I mean, for me, racing is all about learning to push my own limits. Yes, you can push your own limits in training too, but racing seems to always kick me one notch above what I thought I was capable of. And, esp. with regards to OWS, is about overcoming fear and believing in yourself and your hard work.

Point is: what ever % of "it" God bestowed upon you, your job is to exploit it through hard work, training, and racing.

And on more "it" note: figure there are plenty of those with "it" who are wasting it away--sitting on their azzes all day, eatin' jelly donuts, and probably smoking too. Be content that you are out there working hard and maximizing your God-given abilities--and will live a much healthier life than many of those with "it".

Ok, I gotta call BS on all this "I worked hard over the last few years and haven't had the results" crap. I checked some of the logs, if you avg. 3 hours a week cycling and 2 hours running you are not working hard enough. It may be what fits into your schedule do to other commitments,family, and work, etc. and seem hard but it just isn't comparitively speaking. Look at what the top agers are doing, I would be willing to bet an entry fee into any Ironman that they are doing much more than that. I am talking 15-20 hours plus a week as a base. The bottom line to this sport, there is NO shorts cuts, if you want to be fast and in the top 10% of your age group you are going to have to train lots of hours each week, nearly every week of the year. There is always going to be a few exceptions, but I'll show you 100 people training hard to that 1 exception. Look at the top pro's. Consistent 25-35 hours a week, and they are some of the most gifted athletes in the world. If the whole some people just got it thing was legit why wouldn't we see it in the pro ranks? I'll tell you why, cause it just isn't the case. So go ahead and tell your self your not talented enough, and I'll make sure I say aloha as I pass you on the course.

note: I haven't placed in the top 10 in my age group yet, this is my third season training for tri's, I just finished 47/75 in my age group(m40-44) in an oly distance race. In the coming years I will be a top age grouper and will qualify for Kona! All this will happen as my base training hours increase.

Aloha,

Matt

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Bingo.  I've seen and experienced both sides of this issue.  I go through periods with inconsistent training, lousy nutrition, and lower hours, and the results show it.  It's not rocket science to figure that out, it's my life.

I also go through periods with decent nutrition, solid work, and good hours, and results improve.  Measurably.  And consistency and hard work matters more than genetics. imho.  If you can log 12000 yards a week Over 4 workouts, your swim will be monster. If you can get 150 miles a week on the bike over 4 or 5 rides, it'll get faster.  And if you can get 20-40 miles running over 4 or 5 runs, it'll get faster too. (obviously dependent on your target distances). 

That doesn't apply to the top couple percentiles...there are different factors (ADDITIONAL workouts, genetics, nutrition, perioditization, equipment) that will help you over the last few percentiles.  But most of us don't have to deal with that...consistency (and quality of workouts) trump genetics for the non-podium crowd.  Bear's 'Ride More' is right.  Don't tell him I said that.

what a great thread- this reminds me i was reading the lore of running by Tim noakes

(recommended reading by the way) he was saying Mark allen in training for  kona would train for swimming 21000 km weekly, biking 504 km weekly and running 6:05 hrs weekly

He calls this the patience phase and clearly he is building up only. so 27 hours per week.

And this is for a pro top tier athlete. Given he is genetically gifted too, the author was amazed at no. of hours top tier triathletes train.  on his push phase eight weeks before kona he would train for 38 hours per week.

        When asked by the author why doesnt other triathletes follow his methods w/c clearly has been proven effective. allen answered that many athletes are too ego driven

they cant wait to perform well and will accept anyone else ideas.

      Us being a society who always want fast results might be the reason why we cant fathom progressing to that level. Of course you can also train a lot for years and years and still wouldnt qualify for kona but if youve commited  yourself in this endeavor for years you might get surprised of what the results may be down the road.

I don't know you, so I really don't mean to pick on you in particular.  But I see comments like these all the time and can't for the life of me figure out why people put those kinds of limits on themselves. 

The reality is that it deosn't take a lot of "speed" to qualify for Boston or Kona.  It takes lots of endurance.  Almost anybody can devleop enough for Boston in my opinion.  Kona is more complicated because it depends on what others do as well.  Either takes a lot of work.  And for some people it may take more work than for others. 

If you'll never do it because you don't want to commit to the effort necessary, that's fine (it is a lot of effort and not everyone derives the same level of satisfaction in that, especially given a lot of other life options to consider).  But to say you'll never do it just because you can't seems like a cop out to me. 

I agree with most that has been shared...genes and having "it" can be huge, but hard work and smart training can help anyone.

Look at folks that right off the bat are terrific and place high with little training. Then there are folks that train and are happy just to finish.

If you have been on BT for awhile, you'll see folks excel and improve like crazy and others are slower and steady and improve gradually. I think those who improve quickly have "it" but didn't know it and it was undiscovered until they started tri training.

I've concluded that the way I am allows me to excel at cycling and struggle with running and swimming. I started in my first tri in 2004 doing like 12 mph on the bike...on a cross bike. Now I typically come in top one or two spots in both my AG and Athena depending of course who shows up...often top 10% of women in the whole tri and I'm 45. Running and swimming I'm happy if I'm MOP in anything but usually way back. Sure I'm getting better at everything but I have no illusions that I'll be competitive really...maybe when I get to the 50-54 AG in 3 years. Just last week (had a really crappy week) I felt I should quit doing tris as it seems my run/swimming won't get much better because if I had any talent or potential in those two areas in 4 years of training I'd see more improvement than I have and I'm still looking.

Today I went ows and this guy that learned to swim 6 months ago swims as fast as I do....very discouraging.

New guy's two cents:

I think there is a little bit of genes involved and a lot of drive. Definitely more nurture than nature. I have seen several Ironman championships where people have overcome huge adversities and do very well. I would like to hold on to the hope that everyone has the potential to compete in the front. Although, as a swim coach I had swimmers that just didn't have it in them (or if it was they hid it very well). They worked hard but just didn't "get it." Therefore, I have to think that there is that small bit reliant on "whatcha momma gave ya" and bit reliant on "what's in you."

Good that you like to argue, it makes things, err, better.

Lemme use myself as an example, though, to give an illustration of what I mean. I'm 6'2 and have a weird geometry.  Weird's an understatement...I've got a 32 inch inseam, short arms, and a torso that goes forever.  Demerly described me as 'freakishly proportioned' when he fit me for my bike.

Let's now take the swim as our area of focus.  It's pretty common knowledge that longer arms help you go faster...and by way of background, I have no competitive swimming background, I was comfortable in the water, but couldn't do 250 in the water in 2001. I trained, but not consistently through 2006, and got my swim to reasonable levels.  That was through a combination of TI and work, no coaching.  And it was no thanks to my anatomy, my 31 inch arms and little hands don't pull much water.  So I plateaued.

Now...fast forward to 2007.  Basically, I've doubled my swim yards for the year, and stayed CONSISTENT.  I've been able to bust through the plateau, and get into 100 times that are much, much quicker than I could have before.  It took me from 30-40% in the water to top 10%.  My arms didn't change length, I didn't get younger, but I did knock a bunch of time off.

And without going into similar detail, time on the bike and run yields similar results.  I just can't, personally, invest time to focus on all 3 at once....and dump 20 hours in per week. But I can tell you that with the right plan, the right focus, and ADEQUATE time and consistency, it will get better.  "Adequate" will be unique for you, there's the 'art' to it.  Consistency is a must, over the season, and over years.

And, in my case, genetics is an excuse. I could complain about not knocking off an additional 2 minutes in an Oly due to my arm length, but that's not my limiter at this point.  Smart time in the pool is. 

The truth is that I don't have "it". Running and my body don't work well together. It's a miserable struggle. And I can pretty much tell you that even if I train for the next 5 years, I will not be running a 6 or 7 minute mile. At best, I can only hope for a 9 minute mile.

This is where you are making a mistake.  Have you looked at the kona qualifying times for you age group and the next age group you will be in.  You don't need a 6 or 7 minute mile. An 8:45 mile is just fine!  Check the results-I checked just 2 ironman races and I would be willing to bet there are others out there with even slower per mile qualifying times. 

Don't sell yourself short. You have way more talent than you are giving  yourself credit for.

Aloha,
Matt

That is what I was just thinking.  We can all get better but we will never be elite.  I am the opposite of rkreuser.  I am probably built perfect for this sport.  6'7" 205lbs 13% bf (could be a little lower but I like to drink a few beers), good wing span, long legs (36in inseam), only negative really is that I have chicken legs and have no foot speed and never have althought it has got slightly better.  That being said I generally finish top 1/3 in races depending on size.  Could I work out more, yes, but no Kona for me.

Once again, you my friend don't have physical limitations, you have mental limitations!  I took a look at your results and you could qualify-if you believed you could.  I am not trying to say that it's just believing in yourself, it's also doing the work necessary to do it . So stop the can't crap and do it if you want to.  If you don't thats fine, just don't try and sell me on the I don't have it when you do!

Aloha,

Matt

I'm still along the lines of Johnny, Rick and Aaron when it comes to reults from hard work.

Example would be me when it comes to running.  The last time I ran was in '92 and didn't strap on some shoes until the end of '04 when I attempted a marathon on zero training.  I had never run more than 11 miles at one time in my life and had always told myself I would never be able, and that the best I could ever expect was to be an average middle distance runner.  And I only made it to the 1/2 way point of the marathon before dropping out.  But I vowed to make it all the way the next year.

Fast forward to now ....... after putting in 1,000 determined miles (and remember, this was after 13 years of ZERO miles) in '05 I finished a marathon in 3:58, then another 1,500 last year I Boston Qualified with a 3:12.  Is some of that because I have a little of "it??"  Yeah, probably, but it is also that I consistently put in the miles regardless of weather/mood/tiredness.  How many other people here are willing to do that to achieve something??

I just finished reading Duel in the Sun about the '82 Boston Marathon with Dick Beardsley and Alberto Salazar and how they poured their heart and soul into that one race which basically ended their professional careers.  In the book Salazar was talking about how his faith was often ridiculed as he sat in the airport waiting for a flight praying his rosary.  The statement that really stuck with me from that was he said that prayer and making time to worship was no different than excercise and running.  People talk a lot about not having the time or the ability, but you can always find it.  He said  that there were many "average" runners that could have been so much better if they would just put in the effort and make it happen (basically summarizing).

I suck in the water, I know it ....... but I'm tall with long arms so have the "prototype" body to be a fast swimmer.  Last year I put in a whopping 78k yards and got my azz kicked in the Eagleman swim, which destroyed the rest of the race and made my two strengths worthless from being exhausted from the swim.  Rather than lament the crappy performance, I've made a goal to swim at least 20k each month and do a monthly 1,000 yard TT to track my abilities to make sure there is improvement.  And after already doing 100k+ this year I HAVE seen improvement and knocked almost 2 minutes off of my TT time.  I'll never be a fish, but I'm working at least at being a turtle!