Work your Weakness aka "Hey, Mike, STFU!" Challenge (Page 21)

I had a nice, easy Z2 4 mile run planned at lunch today. Pretty day so I hit the trails. It turned out a bit more exciting than expected. I got buzzed by a Coopers Hawk (I think...not a bird expert) about 5 times. She kept coming at me for about a half mile...flying pretty low to the ground at about knee height. It's too late in the year for it to have been protecting a nest but she really wanted me out of her woods. While a little startling, it was pretty cool to watch her navigate through the trees. Needless to say that mile was my fasted split. 

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by msteiner

I got past my long run with 1:15 at "race pace" without too much difficulty.  I expect my runs to get more difficult when I enter back into the realm of slow and steady long runs.

This week is a recovery week (woot!), but I will have some intensity with a FTP test tomorrow and a 10K on Saturday.  My PR for 10K is 39:51, and I have only gone under 40 that one time.  I'd like to get back under there.

Pacing has always been a nemesis of mine in running.  My plan is to hold 6:24 for the first 4 miles and push a bit more on the last 2.2.  I have a bad habit of wanting to build a buffer, which ends up with a risky positive split.  

  This post reminds me of the "I-do-not-think-that-word-means-what-you-think-it-means" in the Princess Bride.  Recovery week  with an FTP test and a 10K on Saturday?!  You so crazy

Is it bad that I'd rather do both of those things than run 20 miles?

lol it makes me wonder why you have chosen to train for a marathon. 

I do wonder though, for a rest week., why so much intensity?

The purpose of the marathon training is to build base.  The marathon itself was based on the thought that I may as well run a marathon if I'm going to train for one. 

The 10K is actually prescribed on the plan.  The recovery weeks I have left are mainly tapers for races.  This one is ended with a 10K, and the last recovery week before taper ends with a half mary.

The FTP test is pushing it, but since this week is pretty easy outside of the 10K, I figured now is as good of a time to do it during my marathon training as any.  My curiosity is too strong!

Running consistency: Has been OK. I need to be better about getting in short runs more frequently.  Didn't run yesterday and I don't see how it could happen today--full day of work and 6 hours of driving.  Will make sure I get it done tomorrow.    I did do a 9 miler on Sunday and it felt good, so that's a win.I looks like I could get 5 days of running this week, would ideally like to have 6. I would give this a 7 out of 10 right now.

Swimming:  This has been going great. I feel like I have made some real gains here. I have been seeing my times go down pretty steadily and have tackled some sets that I thought looked pretty scary.  I also feel like I have kicked any remaining dependency on the pull buoy. Looks like I will get four days in the water this week. 9 out of 10.

Strength: I have not been good about this.  I have pretty much blown it off.  I am struggling here on what I should really do, but I'm going to re-up on some glute work and single leg stability exercises. I am also going to add some pull-ups back in. Hmm, 1 out of 10. 

Food timing/late night snacking: So far this week I'd give myself an 8:10. Did some good grocery shopping over the weekend and have some good meals/lunches planned.

Minimizing things that aren't good for my wellbeing: 9:10.

-----

Swimming question for you all:

I had the pleasure of swimming with a friend of mine who was a D1 freestyle national champion last Friday.  Damn!  I could have watched her for hours.  She said, "You kick a lot for a triathlete.  You should just hold those legs up and out of the way and not use them."  We did 8 repeat 100s (I had already done 6 x 150).  BTW, she was swimming effortlessly at 1:08-1:10 (almost no legs), I was swimming AO at 1:23, lol.

OK, so I've been thinking about that some.  People seem all over the  map on this.  Some say yes you should kick, some say no.  When I watch pros, it sure seems like they're kicking.  And if you want to be a better swimmer, should you train like a swimmer or like a triathlete?  Do you train with a kick, but maybe not use it that much in a race? 

Confused, party of one.

Running consistency: Has been OK. I need to be better about getting in short runs more frequently.  Didn't run yesterday and I don't see how it could happen today--full day of work and 6 hours of driving.  Will make sure I get it done tomorrow.    I did do a 9 miler on Sunday and it felt good, so that's a win.I looks like I could get 5 days of running this week, would ideally like to have 6. I would give this a 7 out of 10 right now.

Swimming:  This has been going great. I feel like I have made some real gains here. I have been seeing my times go down pretty steadily and have tackled some sets that I thought looked pretty scary.  I also feel like I have kicked any remaining dependency on the pull buoy. Looks like I will get four days in the water this week. 9 out of 10.

Strength: I have not been good about this.  I have pretty much blown it off.  I am struggling here on what I should really do, but I'm going to re-up on some glute work and single leg stability exercises. I am also going to add some pull-ups back in. Hmm, 1 out of 10. 

Food timing/late night snacking: So far this week I'd give myself an 8:10. Did some good grocery shopping over the weekend and have some good meals/lunches planned.

Minimizing things that aren't good for my wellbeing: 9:10.

-----

Swimming question for you all:

I had the pleasure of swimming with a friend of mine who was a D1 freestyle national champion last Friday.  Damn!  I could have watched her for hours.  She said, "You kick a lot for a triathlete.  You should just hold those legs up and out of the way and not use them."  We did 8 repeat 100s (I had already done 6 x 150).  BTW, she was swimming effortlessly at 1:08-1:10 (almost no legs), I was swimming AO at 1:23, lol.

OK, so I've been thinking about that some.  People seem all over the  map on this.  Some say yes you should kick, some say no.  When I watch pros, it sure seems like they're kicking.  And if you want to be a better swimmer, should you train like a swimmer or like a triathlete?  Do you train with a kick, but maybe not use it that much in a race? 

Confused, party of one.

Core: done

Hip exercises: done

Achilles exercises: done

Got on my bike tonight for the first time since my HIM.  Just super easy recovery ride but it felt good.

Running consistency: Has been OK. I need to be better about getting in short runs more frequently.  Didn't run yesterday and I don't see how it could happen today--full day of work and 6 hours of driving.  Will make sure I get it done tomorrow.    I did do a 9 miler on Sunday and it felt good, so that's a win.I looks like I could get 5 days of running this week, would ideally like to have 6. I would give this a 7 out of 10 right now.

Swimming:  This has been going great. I feel like I have made some real gains here. I have been seeing my times go down pretty steadily and have tackled some sets that I thought looked pretty scary.  I also feel like I have kicked any remaining dependency on the pull buoy. Looks like I will get four days in the water this week. 9 out of 10.

Strength: I have not been good about this.  I have pretty much blown it off.  I am struggling here on what I should really do, but I'm going to re-up on some glute work and single leg stability exercises. I am also going to add some pull-ups back in. Hmm, 1 out of 10. 

Food timing/late night snacking: So far this week I'd give myself an 8:10. Did some good grocery shopping over the weekend and have some good meals/lunches planned.

Minimizing things that aren't good for my wellbeing: 9:10.

-----

Swimming question for you all:

I had the pleasure of swimming with a friend of mine who was a D1 freestyle national champion last Friday.  Damn!  I could have watched her for hours.  She said, "You kick a lot for a triathlete.  You should just hold those legs up and out of the way and not use them."  We did 8 repeat 100s (I had already done 6 x 150).  BTW, she was swimming effortlessly at 1:08-1:10 (almost no legs), I was swimming AO at 1:23, lol.

OK, so I've been thinking about that some.  People seem all over the  map on this.  Some say yes you should kick, some say no.  When I watch pros, it sure seems like they're kicking.  And if you want to be a better swimmer, should you train like a swimmer or like a triathlete?  Do you train with a kick, but maybe not use it that much in a race? 

Confused, party of one.

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by msteiner

I got past my long run with 1:15 at "race pace" without too much difficulty.  I expect my runs to get more difficult when I enter back into the realm of slow and steady long runs.

This week is a recovery week (woot!), but I will have some intensity with a FTP test tomorrow and a 10K on Saturday.  My PR for 10K is 39:51, and I have only gone under 40 that one time.  I'd like to get back under there.

Pacing has always been a nemesis of mine in running.  My plan is to hold 6:24 for the first 4 miles and push a bit more on the last 2.2.  I have a bad habit of wanting to build a buffer, which ends up with a risky positive split.  

  This post reminds me of the "I-do-not-think-that-word-means-what-you-think-it-means" in the Princess Bride.  Recovery week  with an FTP test and a 10K on Saturday?!  You so crazy

Is it bad that I'd rather do both of those things than run 20 miles?

lol it makes me wonder why you have chosen to train for a marathon. 

I do wonder though, for a rest week., why so much intensity?

The purpose of the marathon training is to build base.  The marathon itself was based on the thought that I may as well run a marathon if I'm going to train for one. 

The 10K is actually prescribed on the plan.  The recovery weeks I have left are mainly tapers for races.  This one is ended with a 10K, and the last recovery week before taper ends with a half mary.

The FTP test is pushing it, but since this week is pretty easy outside of the 10K, I figured now is as good of a time to do it during my marathon training as any.  My curiosity is too strong!

Well, if you find you really don't like it just know that you have other base building options for sure. If you take a look at my training (saay ... the past 8 weeks or so?), even with frequent racing (where I have been tapering down approximately 25-30%), I am building and maintaining a really great base and it's built of more frequency and more intensity, rather than long long runs. 

This kind of training sounds right up your alley. 

Me, too...and if you ask 20 coaches you're likely to get 20 different answers.  There's an interesting swim thread going on right now in TT related to using swim "toys", but some of the discussion transfers to how we should be kicking.  My takeaway from all of the discussions is "kick as much as you need to keep a good body position, but don't use it for propulsion...you likely are bad at it anyway."

I kick only to keep my legs up.  it's ugly and may very well be counterproductive.  Once I get back into the pool later this month I'm going to be focusing on fixing that timing issue before I tackle Sheila's pull theory.

Maybe this is one of those things that "depends"?  I'm a decent kicker, and can move pretty well during kick sets.  I definitely think my kick helps with my propulsion, but does it help me if I'm doing it for 1.2 miles?  Errrr, not know.

It does take a lot of energy though...

There, full circle. Again

Matt--I tend to agree with you on training like a swimmer, biker, runner, except that when I read things like Skiba, I'm reminded that I do have to bike and run, and I don't want to have my intensity too high.  What do you think about it in that context?

Nice Kirsten! I bet the bike was nice post HM. It always feels good to spin those legs out.

Core: done

Hip exercises: done

Achilles exercises: done

Got on my bike tonight for the first time since my HIM.  Just super easy recovery ride but it felt good.

Maybe this is one of those things that "depends"?  I'm a decent kicker, and can move pretty well during kick sets.  I definitely think my kick helps with my propulsion, but does it help me if I'm doing it for 1.2 miles?  Errrr, not know.

It does take a lot of energy though...

There, full circle. Again

Matt--I tend to agree with you on training like a swimmer, biker, runner, except that when I read things like Skiba, I'm reminded that I do have to bike and run, and I don't want to have my intensity too high.  What do you think about it in that context?

Yeah ... interesting comments. I think it's important to run like a runner, swim like a swimmer, bike like a biker,  but you just can't forget that whole triathlon lense you have to see through. As many like to point out, triathlon is A sport not three. I think figuring out that balance is precisely what makes it such a challenge. 

Yeah ... interesting comments. I think it's important to run like a runner, swim like a swimmer, bike like a biker,  but you just can't forget that whole triathlon lense you have to see through. As many like to point out, triathlon is A sport not three. I think figuring out that balance is precisely what makes it such a challenge. 

What makes time trialing and running in triathlon different than their original sports outside of your pace plan on the bike?  

Look at how much kicking Sun Yang does when he races the 1500m swim:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6uqZd8Tn3Y

Not unlike that of a triathlete, no?

For me, no kicky=legs sinky=slow downy.  My kick has definitely changed, from super hard to just enough.  Strengthening my core has made a huge difference.

How would you describes Sun Yang's kick?