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2012-01-15 4:20 PM
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Payson, AZ
Subject: RE: Fred D's Ironman/Half-Ironman focused Mentor Group --CLOSED
I agree with Chris and Fred.  It took me about a solid year of riding to find the cadence I was comfortable in based on the terrain I was riding.  And that was before tri's, but I haven't changed anything and have no problem with the run


2012-01-15 4:47 PM
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2012-01-15 5:42 PM
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2012-01-15 5:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D's Ironman/Half-Ironman focused Mentor Group --CLOSED
Fred D - 2012-01-15 4:16 PM
hippotude - 2012-01-15 2:28 PM

I have a question for the group.

I do not have the tools to train with power on the bike...the only information I have to use are HR and RPM.  My question is what RPM should I be shooting for for max. benefit?   

There is no universal ideal RPM for the bike. Each person has a different rpm that they are best suited for. Usually it's in the 70-95 range with the vast majority in the 80-95 range. You have to ride lots and then your cadence sorts itself out, ie; as you become a more efficient cyclist you will generally naturally figure out what cadence works for you. Lastly I'm a decent cyclist and my natural cadence is somewhere between 70-80 and I have raced with a cadence of 72 in a HIM and still run ok. The whole 'higher cadence is better to save your run' theory is complete bunk IMHO.

72 ?? that's mashing on the big chain ring and 13 cog?  Cool  

Yup, everyone is different and like Fred said- you will find it by saddle time.  Cadence will vary depending on the terrain and how hard are you mashing. I've seen low 70's on a pace line and hammering at 28mph as well as mid-90's with the same speed. 

A buddy of mine who is an experienced marathoner told me to go out there and feel a run pace that I could hold all day long.  The same thing applies to the tri- what cadance can you hold for all 56/112 miles ... 90 - 94? 85 - 90?  

 

 

2012-01-15 5:57 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D's Ironman/Half-Ironman focused Mentor Group --CLOSED
hippotude - 2012-01-15 2:28 PM

I have a question for the group.

I do not have the tools to train with power on the bike...the only information I have to use are HR and RPM.  My question is what RPM should I be shooting for for max. benefit?   

I would concentrate on HR only. Jorge has a great plan for both HR & pwr.. I used HR last year-- and it works! 

2012-01-15 6:03 PM
in reply to: #3991468

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Subject: RE: Fred D's Ironman/Half-Ironman focused Mentor Group --CLOSED
TSimone -

Another thought is Jorge's plan, which accomodates both power and HR training.  He has a test to set up your zones properly.

   

I used Jorge's plan last year and did it based on HR... I never got to finish it as LIFE got in the way but for the time I did it - I was making gains! I've got all the info in xcl format... let me know if you want me to send it.



2012-01-15 6:27 PM
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2012-01-15 6:28 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D's Ironman/Half-Ironman focused Mentor Group --CLOSED

No excuses today even though it was 26 deg and with the windshield it felt in the teens. Yes it was chilly but there is always Under Armour gear, cycling baklava, UA gloves, etc. to keep you warm and toasty. I ran for 5.14 miles in 44:20. First run for the week (last two weeks to be exact). This week is the most I've done as far as mileage and hrs spent exercising since August. 

The pace felt great and was actually working on posture, upper body rotation and SPECIALLY foot strike. I am a heel striker and have been wanting to try the front foot strike type run. It certainly requires work and it does put a strain on your calves. I did foot strikes the same as fart legs. About 30 seconds of it and then back to heel. One thing for sure, it seem to me that once I was on the front foot strike run , the pace went down immediately. I found myself running at a 7:45 pace. I don't know if it is a natural feel to speed up since I feel I am on my toes. Any who... I am still learning on this part of running.

for any of the runners out there? have you changed your running style from heel to front foot strike? good or bad? thoughts? 

Tomorrow is swim and the trainer.. and yes K's swim video analysis.. sorry ... run out of time.. I promise I'll have it done by tomorrow..promise!

2012-01-15 6:45 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D's Ironman/Half-Ironman focused Mentor Group --CLOSED
Fred D - 2012-01-15 7:27 PM
golfpro - 2012-01-15 6:53 PM
Fred D - 2012-01-15 4:16 PM
hippotude - 2012-01-15 2:28 PM

I have a question for the group.

I do not have the tools to train with power on the bike...the only information I have to use are HR and RPM.  My question is what RPM should I be shooting for for max. benefit?   

There is no universal ideal RPM for the bike. Each person has a different rpm that they are best suited for. Usually it's in the 70-95 range with the vast majority in the 80-95 range. You have to ride lots and then your cadence sorts itself out, ie; as you become a more efficient cyclist you will generally naturally figure out what cadence works for you. Lastly I'm a decent cyclist and my natural cadence is somewhere between 70-80 and I have raced with a cadence of 72 in a HIM and still run ok. The whole 'higher cadence is better to save your run' theory is complete bunk IMHO.

72 ?? that's mashing on the big chain ring and 13 cog?  Cool  

Yup, everyone is different and like Fred said- you will find it by saddle time.  Cadence will vary depending on the terrain and how hard are you mashing. I've seen low 70's on a pace line and hammering at 28mph as well as mid-90's with the same speed. 

A buddy of mine who is an experienced marathoner told me to go out there and feel a run pace that I could hold all day long.  The same thing applies to the tri- what cadance can you hold for all 56/112 miles ... 90 - 94? 85 - 90?  

 

 

That was on a dead flat course, eagleman 70.3. 239 watts with. Cadence of 72 lol.

damn great if you ask me.. that puts you at a pace of about or close to 24mph... to be exact.. 

TOTAL BIKE56 mi. (2:18:38)24.24 mph

solid! 

2012-01-15 6:47 PM
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2012-01-15 6:50 PM
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2012-01-16 5:28 AM
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Payson, AZ
Subject: RE: Fred D's Ironman/Half-Ironman focused Mentor Group --CLOSED

Strange day here in Tucson, suppose to rain.  That is about as rare as a hail merry pass leading to a TD.  Those who watched the game last night will get it.  It rained yesterday evening so perhaps the rain came early and I'll see clear skys.  On tap is a 2 hour ride, which I might not get to until the evening so it'll be on the trainer. 

Still sick, which means no sleep for me, which means it is harder to recover.  Thankfully today's ride is suppose to be easy.  How long you all let a sickness go before you break down and go to the drs?  I normally do not stay sick this long.  I generally hate going to the dr's.  I hate driving there, I hate waiting, I hate driving home...  I mostly hate wasting both my time and the dr's time on something they probably can't do anything about.  I have friends that tell me to go to the dr for every ache and pain and sign of sickness.  I tend to ignore them.  I had an extreme case of food poisoning once and it took me 4 days to finally break down and go to the dr's. 

2012-01-16 6:16 AM
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2012-01-16 6:20 AM
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2012-01-16 7:59 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D's Ironman/Half-Ironman focused Mentor Group --CLOSED

So I skipped a 5 mile mid-week run in an attempt to recover/reset from Ragnar.

Yesterday I did an hour long yoga class with LOTS of hamstring stretches - I'm SO inflexible now!!

I ran 12 after that, and it felt effortless at a 10:30 pace.

I think I'm going to put my name in for the 4:30 pace group at the marathon - which is now two weeks away!!

2012-01-16 9:17 AM
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Norton Shores, MI
Subject: RE: Fred D's Ironman/Half-Ironman focused Mentor Group --CLOSED

Last week was nothing spectacular for me.  A little shocked how long it took me to recover from that trail marathon.  Really did not get a good workout done until friday.  We traveled to the other side of the state this weekend so got a early ride on saturday and shoveled 12" from the driveway when I got home and played hockey last night.  The lake effect snow really blasted us.

Hoping to have a good week of training this week.  Just have an easy 4.5 mile run scheduled at lunch time today even though today is normally a recovery day.  But, since I did not do much this weekend..no need. 



2012-01-16 10:45 AM
in reply to: #3946905

Subject: RE: Fred D's Ironman/Half-Ironman focused Mentor Group --CLOSED
On the heel/mid/forefoot debate, as a wise man once said (named Bryan) it doesn't really matter. What matters is that you land over whatever part of the foot you are striking with, not behind it
2012-01-16 12:00 PM
in reply to: #3946905

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Subject: RE: Fred D's Ironman/Half-Ironman focused Mentor Group --CLOSED

Hello team! I am very happy that I actually woke up and got a quick bike in. My intent for the week is that i complete a workout each morning. I need to get my schedule set so that i can get all of my training in and i think most of you already see morning workouts as essential to that.  Other than that I actually do have floor hockey tonight so i'll be off to do my 'interval training' - i'll be running hard in short burst.

I did a workout video that's a great for whole body strength and, wow, a week off means I have sore muscles!

I still have a slight cough but i think i am over the hump and i am resuming normal training.

Oh, the other thing that i am proud of is that yesterday i spent a long time in the kitchen prepping the ingredients for the dinners i will be making all this week.  That will take a lot of time off my plate this week so i can get these evening swims done!

2012-01-16 12:06 PM
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2012-01-16 12:07 PM
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2012-01-16 1:31 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D's Ironman/Half-Ironman focused Mentor Group --CLOSED

Had one of Jorge's Test days this morning. 30mins of pure hell! Since I'm using the heart rate version of the plan I have to judge any improvements on my average speed - which was virtually the same as the last time I tested.

However, since I've had Christmas, moved house (so my setup is different to the last test) and started a new job all in the last 3 weeks, I'm just glad it didn't go down!

Oh, and a nice short easy 25min run this evening



2012-01-16 2:47 PM
in reply to: #3946905

Subject: RE: Fred D's Ironman/Half-Ironman focused Mentor Group --CLOSED
Don't usually swim Mondays, but decided to go today instead of yesterday due to the holidayMain set that I made up in the car on the way to the pool500 on :30 RI5 x 100 on 1:30400 on :25 RI4 x 100 on 1:25300 on :20 RI3 x 100 on 1:20The end was tough
2012-01-16 3:42 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D's Ironman/Half-Ironman focused Mentor Group --CLOSED
sicone - 2012-01-16 2:31 PM

Had one of Jorge's Test days this morning. 30mins of pure hell! Since I'm using the heart rate version of the plan I have to judge any improvements on my average speed - which was virtually the same as the last time I tested.

However, since I've had Christmas, moved house (so my setup is different to the last test) and started a new job all in the last 3 weeks, I'm just glad it didn't go down!

Oh, and a nice short easy 25min run this evening

The 30 min test is definitely a killer! 

2012-01-16 3:45 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D's Ironman/Half-Ironman focused Mentor Group --CLOSED

ChrisM - 2012-01-16 3:47 PM Don't usually swim Mondays, but decided to go today instead of yesterday due to the holidayMain set that I made up in the car on the way to the pool500 on :30 RI5 x 100 on 1:30400 on :25 RI4 x 100 on 1:25300 on :20 RI3 x 100 on 1:20The end was tough

 

Great workout.. you are flying through the water. 

 

KIm- BZgl... sent you a PM about your swimming. 

2012-01-16 5:15 PM
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