Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012 (Page 23)
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Expert![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() axteraa - 2012-01-04 12:51 PM Blueraider_Mike - 2012-01-04 1:41 PM bertgwen - 2012-01-03 10:25 PM Cadence question. When I'm out on the road my cadence is typically in the mid or high 80's. On the trainer low 70's if I'm lucky. Today I was consistently in the high 60's. I've never tried to get my cadence in a certain range, this is just where I typically end up. So the question, should I try to get my trainer cadence up closer to my outdoor cadence? Or should I be content just mashing along in the upper 60's low 70's?
Depends on your trainer...I have a KK and its power curve is like you are going up a 1% upgrade, so slightly up hill, so cadence will be lower at same power output outside on a flat.
Hmm, I dunno about this. Simply shifting gears will change your cadence for a given power / speed combination.
Let me try again...although my bike is level when attached to the trainer I cannot keep the same cadence as I would outside on a flat in the same gear - its harder on the trainer because I have to over come the resistance on the trainer - which the power curve has been tested to show you are going up hill at a 1% grade. This is why on the trainer if I am going 20MPH I am pushing 260 watts but outside on a flat at 20MPH I am pushing around 230 watts...make sense? |
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Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() marcag - 2012-01-04 8:57 AM Hi Jorge,
Happy New year. when doing the 6x4s, what is the downside of more rest between the 4' ? The reason I ask is I have/use Ergvideo who have some precanned 6x4 workout but they give 3 minutes between each 4'. If I up the power a bit but have a longer rest, will I be getting the same effects/adaptations ?
Short answer yes, it matters. Long (and geeky) answer; since the 6x4' are aimed to improved both the slow glycolysis and the aerobic pathway, is important to keep the rest short. Since different processes go into play, mitochondrial activity always lags behind those processes that deliver energy that are first available. By decreasing the concentration of those energy systems will lower the ATP availability activating the mitochondria. If you keep the rest short, then the phosphate potential will not recover completely and the mitochondria will remain active, hence the total delivery of energy from the aerobic pathway will remain the dominant one. If the rest is too long (the longer the more phosphate potential will recover), then it will allow for ATP to re-synthesized, hence the contribution from the fast glycolysis on the next interval will be greater, hence potentially reducing the specific adaptations we are aiming. Around 5min it takes for ATP to completely get re-synthesized. 3 min might still give you some benefit but if the rest was shorter to ~1 min then it might be maximized. since we are trying to achieve the greatest fitness level within a time 'budget', the more specific you can train the better. I hope that helps |
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Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() bertgwen - 2012-01-03 10:25 PM Cadence question. When I'm out on the road my cadence is typically in the mid or high 80's. On the trainer low 70's if I'm lucky. Today I was consistently in the high 60's. I've never tried to get my cadence in a certain range, this is just where I typically end up. So the question, should I try to get my trainer cadence up closer to my outdoor cadence? Or should I be content just mashing along in the upper 60's low 70's? While cadence on the trainer can be lesser than outdoors, the difference shouldn't be dramatic. Varying the gear and trainer tension should allow you to achieve similar cadences that outdoors. If you are using the power curve to estimate your power and training with that, see if you can achieve your with an easier gear, higher cadence. As someone mentioned above, constant low cadence on the trainer can place a lot of strain on the knees we lack the ability to balance our body as we do outdoors hence the knee strain gets magnified. Edited by JorgeM 2012-01-04 7:47 PM |
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Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() rsmoylan - 2012-01-03 7:30 PM This workouts are rather intense hence your glycogen storage in your muscles will gradually become depleted if your are not fueling/refueling properly. Hence it is normal to start strong one day and by the end of the week have trouble completing the same session due to chronic fatigue and fuel glycogen depletion.JorgeM - 2012-01-03 3:50 PM rsmoylan - 2011-12-28 1:24 PM I was curious as to how you all fuel during the long rides. What I am doing does not seem to be working. I am drinking water for the first hour, then I go to gatorade and gel for the remainder. I take in a squirt of gatorade and gel every 15 minutes. I feel strong for the first hour, but am fading the last 1-1.5 hours. Any suggestions? how are you fueling before riding?That's the thing Jorge, I am having a decent dinner with either rice/pasta and lots of veggies about 1.5 to two hours before the ride. Now this last 2.5 hour ride was much better. I started with some perpetuem right away and though I didn't hit my power numbers, I didn't feel that I needed to stop. It is important to find the right balance between fueling before, during and after these sessions. If you feel the fueling before the workout is adequate then up your fueling during and certainly do a good job refueling after. Remember, we can store so much glycogen on our muscles, depending on fitness perhaps up to 400gr of carbs. That's around 2000kcal. If you use around 750 kilo joules (kJ) per session, since we are only around 25% efficient using fuel for energy then even when 1 kcal equal 4 kJ, due to our inefficiency it ends up been around 1:1 hence you technically burn ~750kcal. that's close to 40% of your reserves. add the Kcal you burn through the day and if you are not refueling properly, you can easily get in a deficit within days. You can determine roughly how many kcal you need based on height, weight, body composition, activity level, etc. and get a rough estimate of you daily kcal needs. with that you can guesstimate how much you need before, during and after and voila. That or get a cool coach who can do that for you (as we do to all our 1:1 athletes |
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Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() powerman - 2012-01-04 8:09 AM This. Our fitness works in cycle as some days we are rested and some days we are fatigued. What we do (either on your own or your coach) is to systematically push your body to constantly adapt mixing easy days, hard days and everything in between. that's training pretty much, no magic workouts, no special programs, no secrets.Fit4Infinity - 2012-01-03 5:48 PM I have found that to get a good 20min maximal effort, I need to taper as if I were running a 5k race. 3 days of light workouts with some strides to keep the muscles fresh . Not as much taper as longer races, HM Marathon, HIM. Very best 20mp test was towards the end of a weeklong HM taper. My worst tests are in the middle of a heavy training week, 2weeks following a race. But you can't always adjust all you training for a test. When it works out it's golden. cheers So this brings up a question.... so how much and how prepared are you supposed to be for the test? I can rest and taper and get all preped... then do a killer 20' test and come up with a great looking CP... but then all my training will be at this higher level and during the week I'm killing myself trying to train to these levels I can only get on my most rested best day. I mean the rest of the month I'm still running 6x a week and swimming and all that. So I get easy a few day, don't be cooked, same time same conditions, do your best to get an accurate taget... but how hard are you suposed to "try" to get a skewed number? Or do you want that high target no matter what to keep improving the most? The trick though is that we all respond different to training loads hence while some may recover within 24hrs and be ready to do a 20 min test, others might need, 48 or 72 hrs of easy training to be able to recover. As you get fitter, the recovery period actually gets shorter which is another benefit from training; you can train more and recover faster. But, while you are going through the process, you have to learn what works for you and adjust accordingly. Still, if you manage your training load well and push when you have to push and take it easy (train a bit less and easier) when you have to back off then, by testing and having the best possible results you will keep pushing your body to new heights. It is not hard to push to the limit one day. what's hard is to do so and be patient enough to train less/easy the next session (within hours or next day) so you can achieve that balance. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JorgeM - 2012-01-04 7:07 PM powerman - 2012-01-04 8:09 AM Still, if you manage your training load well and push when you have to push and take it easy (train a bit less and easier) when you have to back off then, by testing and having the best possible results you will keep pushing your body to new heights. It is not hard to push to the limit one day. what's hard is to do so and be patient enough to train less/easy the next session (within hours or next day) so you can achieve that balance.So I get easy a few day, don't be cooked, same time same conditions, do your best to get an accurate taget... but how hard are you suposed to "try" to get a skewed number? Or do you want that high target no matter what to keep improving the most? Makes plenty sense when you say it. Thanks a bunch. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I'm starting the program now - late to the party, but at the party none the less. On the Power scheme, Day 3 says: 6x5'(1' 70-75% FT) @ 85-90% Does this mean: 5 min at 85-90% followed by 1 min at 70-75%, repeat 6 times? Or, 4 min at 85-90% followed by 1 min at 70-75% (for a total of 5 min per interval), repeat 6 times? |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() KirkD - 2012-01-05 12:12 AM I'm starting the program now - late to the party, but at the party none the less. On the Power scheme, Day 3 says: 6x5'(1' 70-75% FT) @ 85-90% Does this mean: 5 min at 85-90% followed by 1 min at 70-75%, repeat 6 times? Or, 4 min at 85-90% followed by 1 min at 70-75% (for a total of 5 min per interval), repeat 6 times? 5 min at 85-90% followed by 1 min at 70-75%, repeat 6 times. Enjoy! |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JorgeM - 2012-01-04 7:41 PM Short answer yes, it matters. Long (and geeky) answer; since the 6x4' are aimed to improved both the slow glycolysis and the aerobic pathway, is important to keep the rest short. Since different processes go into play, mitochondrial activity always lags behind those processes that deliver energy that are first available. By decreasing the concentration of those energy systems will lower the ATP availability activating the mitochondria. If you keep the rest short, then the phosphate potential will not recover completely and the mitochondria will remain active, hence the total delivery of energy from the aerobic pathway will remain the dominant one. If the rest is too long (the longer the more phosphate potential will recover), then it will allow for ATP to re-synthesized, hence the contribution from the fast glycolysis on the next interval will be greater, hence potentially reducing the specific adaptations we are aiming. Around 5min it takes for ATP to completely get re-synthesized. 3 min might still give you some benefit but if the rest was shorter to ~1 min then it might be maximized. since we are trying to achieve the greatest fitness level within a time 'budget', the more specific you can train the better. I hope that helps a) I wanted to know yes or no b) I wanted to understand why c) I wanted to feel there was actually science behind this
I got a) and c). If only this program raised IQ and FTP :-) In previous years I found the 6x4s were a big part of my improvements so I will follow instructions to the letter. Thanks for everything Jorge |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() axteraa - 2012-01-05 2:06 AM KirkD - 2012-01-05 12:12 AM I'm starting the program now - late to the party, but at the party none the less. On the Power scheme, Day 3 says: 6x5'(1' 70-75% FT) @ 85-90% Does this mean: 5 min at 85-90% followed by 1 min at 70-75%, repeat 6 times? Or, 4 min at 85-90% followed by 1 min at 70-75% (for a total of 5 min per interval), repeat 6 times? 5 min at 85-90% followed by 1 min at 70-75%, repeat 6 times. Enjoy! Thanks! Whew! After that one today, which is in the "preparatory phase" I can't wait for the real work in a few weeks. YIPE!! |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JorgeM - 2012-01-04 8:57 PM rsmoylan - 2012-01-03 7:30 PM This workouts are rather intense hence your glycogen storage in your muscles will gradually become depleted if your are not fueling/refueling properly. Hence it is normal to start strong one day and by the end of the week have trouble completing the same session due to chronic fatigue and fuel glycogen depletion.JorgeM - 2012-01-03 3:50 PM rsmoylan - 2011-12-28 1:24 PM I was curious as to how you all fuel during the long rides. What I am doing does not seem to be working. I am drinking water for the first hour, then I go to gatorade and gel for the remainder. I take in a squirt of gatorade and gel every 15 minutes. I feel strong for the first hour, but am fading the last 1-1.5 hours. Any suggestions? how are you fueling before riding?That's the thing Jorge, I am having a decent dinner with either rice/pasta and lots of veggies about 1.5 to two hours before the ride. Now this last 2.5 hour ride was much better. I started with some perpetuem right away and though I didn't hit my power numbers, I didn't feel that I needed to stop. It is important to find the right balance between fueling before, during and after these sessions. If you feel the fueling before the workout is adequate then up your fueling during and certainly do a good job refueling after. Remember, we can store so much glycogen on our muscles, depending on fitness perhaps up to 400gr of carbs. That's around 2000kcal. If you use around 750 kilo joules (kJ) per session, since we are only around 25% efficient using fuel for energy then even when 1 kcal equal 4 kJ, due to our inefficiency it ends up been around 1:1 hence you technically burn ~750kcal. that's close to 40% of your reserves. add the Kcal you burn through the day and if you are not refueling properly, you can easily get in a deficit within days. You can determine roughly how many kcal you need based on height, weight, body composition, activity level, etc. and get a rough estimate of you daily kcal needs. with that you can guesstimate how much you need before, during and after and voila. That or get a cool coach who can do that for you (as we do to all our 1:1 athletes Jorge, Thanks so much. It looks like I need to be a bit more specific and scientific about my energy needs. I really appreciate the thought and time you put into this. Cheers |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() rsmoylan - 2012-01-05 3:13 PM JorgeM - 2012-01-04 8:57 PM rsmoylan - 2012-01-03 7:30 PM This workouts are rather intense hence your glycogen storage in your muscles will gradually become depleted if your are not fueling/refueling properly. Hence it is normal to start strong one day and by the end of the week have trouble completing the same session due to chronic fatigue and fuel glycogen depletion.JorgeM - 2012-01-03 3:50 PM rsmoylan - 2011-12-28 1:24 PM I was curious as to how you all fuel during the long rides. What I am doing does not seem to be working. I am drinking water for the first hour, then I go to gatorade and gel for the remainder. I take in a squirt of gatorade and gel every 15 minutes. I feel strong for the first hour, but am fading the last 1-1.5 hours. Any suggestions? how are you fueling before riding?That's the thing Jorge, I am having a decent dinner with either rice/pasta and lots of veggies about 1.5 to two hours before the ride. Now this last 2.5 hour ride was much better. I started with some perpetuem right away and though I didn't hit my power numbers, I didn't feel that I needed to stop. It is important to find the right balance between fueling before, during and after these sessions. If you feel the fueling before the workout is adequate then up your fueling during and certainly do a good job refueling after. Remember, we can store so much glycogen on our muscles, depending on fitness perhaps up to 400gr of carbs. That's around 2000kcal. If you use around 750 kilo joules (kJ) per session, since we are only around 25% efficient using fuel for energy then even when 1 kcal equal 4 kJ, due to our inefficiency it ends up been around 1:1 hence you technically burn ~750kcal. that's close to 40% of your reserves. add the Kcal you burn through the day and if you are not refueling properly, you can easily get in a deficit within days. You can determine roughly how many kcal you need based on height, weight, body composition, activity level, etc. and get a rough estimate of you daily kcal needs. with that you can guesstimate how much you need before, during and after and voila. That or get a cool coach who can do that for you (as we do to all our 1:1 athletes Jorge, Thanks so much. It looks like I need to be a bit more specific and scientific about my energy needs. I really appreciate the thought and time you put into this. Cheers Are you accounting for the fat you're burning? It's not 100% glycogen stores. Especially during the less intense intervals, rests, WUs and CDs, that's got to be a significant portion. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Coach J- Looking for some advice... I have done a nice job thus far of balancing the first 3 rides each week in this program with my running but I was looking at my calendar and realized that this program and my half marathon training plan are on a collision course next month... my HM is 12 Feb... and thus my taper week coincides with the beginning of Week #14 of this program... I want to maximize my potential for a new HM PR without jeopardizing the hard work and 13 weeks of following this program... do you have any recommendations? Can I push week 14? Thanks! |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() jsiegs - 2012-01-05 3:18 PM rsmoylan - 2012-01-05 3:13 PM Are you accounting for the fat you're burning? It's not 100% glycogen stores. Especially during the less intense intervals, rests, WUs and CDs, that's got to be a significant portion. JorgeM - 2012-01-04 8:57 PM rsmoylan - 2012-01-03 7:30 PM This workouts are rather intense hence your glycogen storage in your muscles will gradually become depleted if your are not fueling/refueling properly. Hence it is normal to start strong one day and by the end of the week have trouble completing the same session due to chronic fatigue and fuel glycogen depletion.JorgeM - 2012-01-03 3:50 PM rsmoylan - 2011-12-28 1:24 PM I was curious as to how you all fuel during the long rides. What I am doing does not seem to be working. I am drinking water for the first hour, then I go to gatorade and gel for the remainder. I take in a squirt of gatorade and gel every 15 minutes. I feel strong for the first hour, but am fading the last 1-1.5 hours. Any suggestions? how are you fueling before riding?That's the thing Jorge, I am having a decent dinner with either rice/pasta and lots of veggies about 1.5 to two hours before the ride. Now this last 2.5 hour ride was much better. I started with some perpetuem right away and though I didn't hit my power numbers, I didn't feel that I needed to stop. It is important to find the right balance between fueling before, during and after these sessions. If you feel the fueling before the workout is adequate then up your fueling during and certainly do a good job refueling after. Remember, we can store so much glycogen on our muscles, depending on fitness perhaps up to 400gr of carbs. That's around 2000kcal. If you use around 750 kilo joules (kJ) per session, since we are only around 25% efficient using fuel for energy then even when 1 kcal equal 4 kJ, due to our inefficiency it ends up been around 1:1 hence you technically burn ~750kcal. that's close to 40% of your reserves. add the Kcal you burn through the day and if you are not refueling properly, you can easily get in a deficit within days. You can determine roughly how many kcal you need based on height, weight, body composition, activity level, etc. and get a rough estimate of you daily kcal needs. with that you can guesstimate how much you need before, during and after and voila. That or get a cool coach who can do that for you (as we do to all our 1:1 athletes Jorge, Thanks so much. It looks like I need to be a bit more specific and scientific about my energy needs. I really appreciate the thought and time you put into this. Cheers Coach J can certainly correct me if I am wrong, but once you start burning glycogen you don't fully go back to burning fat. In other words, after the warm up, when you get into the main sets are burning glycogen, the short rests and cool down you do not go back to burning just fat. I could be wrong though. Jorge? |
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Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() jsiegs - 2012-01-05 2:18 PM Are you accounting for the fat you're burning? It's not 100% glycogen stores. Especially during the less intense intervals, rests, WUs and CDs, that's got to be a significant portion. I don't really focus much on fat because in caparison with glycogen, fat is 'unlimited'. A 150 pound athlete with 15% body fat has around 22.5 pounds of fat, that's around 78,000 kcal, therefore fat is not a limiter specially in a workout like the 6x4'. Glycogen is because at most, a very fit athletes can store around 2500-2800 kcal worth of it. And since we can't replenish at the same rate what we burn versus what we intake, once you start burning glycogen, the clock is ticking. That's because we always burn a mix of fat and glycogen and what side the balance tilts is based on intensity (among others like gender, sex, age, fitness level, diet, temperature, etc); the point at which we burn around 50/50 fat vs carb is at our lactate threshold (LT) defined as 1 mmol/liter of an athletes based line. That's lower of what most coaches refer to LT; true LT is around your marathon/tempo pace (or the maximal effort athletes can sustain around 2-3 hrs and why most athletes hit the wall of a marathon around 18-22 miles). What most coaches refer to LT is actually the Maximum Lactate Steady State (MLSS) which is the point at which roughly we clear lactate at the same rate it accumulates. This relates closely to Critical Power; therefore knowing your CP means your know roughly when you are around MLSS, and that is important because it means you can only exercise for so long. why? because if at LT we are burning around 50/50 fat/carbs, then at MLSS we are burning it at a higher rate, hence we can only maintain CP around ~1 hr; because glycogen IS the limiter in terms of fuel available. Since the 6x4' is an intensity above CP, then even in the 24 min we exercise, if you are somehow depleted for previous days of exercise and poor diet, then it is very easy to struggle to complete the session on a given day. It is also why when you do that workout early in the AM, you struggle, because your glucose in the liver is usually depleted in the AM (as we burn it while sleeping), and since glucose is the primary fuel for your brain, then when your body is low, as a defense your body forces you to stop and you feel like 1 set at your 20MP feels more like a set at 160% of your CP. Fat, in this particular case (and most tri distances) is rarely (if ever) a limiter. |
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Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() rsmoylan - 2012-01-05 3:05 PM we are always using a mix of our energy systems hence even at your 20MP power we use a small percentage of fat for fuel and when doing sets at 65-70% of CP, we use mainly fat but still we use some carbs. There is no switch turning one source of fuel off/on, you can go back to rely more on fat even after doing a set at 120% of your CP simply by slowing down.Coach J can certainly correct me if I am wrong, but once you start burning glycogen you don't fully go back to burning fat. In other words, after the warm up, when you get into the main sets are burning glycogen, the short rests and cool down you do not go back to burning just fat. I could be wrong though. Jorge? that's one of the reason I personally don't believe in 'base training' limiting your intensity. It is simply not supported by physiology and more based on popular beliefs. I follow and evidence-based common sense approach addressing the needs of each athletes and laying down a foundation based on the athletes goals and limitations. Hence, this program, many athletes are doing 'base training' right now keeping their heart rates at z1-z2 while all of you are mixing your intensity (some days easy, others moderate, others very hard) and targeting different energy systems maximizing your gains within a time budget. by the time those base trainers are done, you will be a mile ahead! |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JorgeM - 2012-01-05 9:50 PM jsiegs - 2012-01-05 2:18 PM Are you accounting for the fat you're burning? It's not 100% glycogen stores. Especially during the less intense intervals, rests, WUs and CDs, that's got to be a significant portion. I don't really focus much on fat because in caparison with glycogen, fat is 'unlimited'. A 150 pound athlete with 15% body fat has around 22.5 pounds of fat, that's around 78,000 kcal, therefore fat is not a limiter specially in a workout like the 6x4'. Glycogen is because at most, a very fit athletes can store around 2500-2800 kcal worth of it. And since we can't replenish at the same rate what we burn versus what we intake, once you start burning glycogen, the clock is ticking. That's because we always burn a mix of fat and glycogen and what side the balance tilts is based on intensity (among others like gender, sex, age, fitness level, diet, temperature, etc); the point at which we burn around 50/50 fat vs carb is at our lactate threshold (LT) defined as 1 mmol/liter of an athletes based line. That's lower of what most coaches refer to LT; true LT is around your marathon/tempo pace (or the maximal effort athletes can sustain around 2-3 hrs and why most athletes hit the wall of a marathon around 18-22 miles). What most coaches refer to LT is actually the Maximum Lactate Steady State (MLSS) which is the point at which roughly we clear lactate at the same rate it accumulates. This relates closely to Critical Power; therefore knowing your CP means your know roughly when you are around MLSS, and that is important because it means you can only exercise for so long. why? because if at LT we are burning around 50/50 fat/carbs, then at MLSS we are burning it at a higher rate, hence we can only maintain CP around ~1 hr; because glycogen IS the limiter in terms of fuel available. Since the 6x4' is an intensity above CP, then even in the 24 min we exercise, if you are somehow depleted for previous days of exercise and poor diet, then it is very easy to struggle to complete the session on a given day. It is also why when you do that workout early in the AM, you struggle, because your glucose in the liver is usually depleted in the AM (as we burn it while sleeping), and since glucose is the primary fuel for your brain, then when your body is low, as a defense your body forces you to stop and you feel like 1 set at your 20MP feels more like a set at 160% of your CP. Fat, in this particular case (and most tri distances) is rarely (if ever) a limiter. Yes, that all makes sense. My question was more on the math in that you counted all of the calories burned coming from glycogen, when it's probably really only like 50% (as you said if you're around CP). So in your math of the 750 kcal, only 350 was from glycogen, or about 20% of your stores. Is that right? |
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Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Oriondriver02 - 2012-01-05 3:00 PM Coach J- Looking for some advice... I have done a nice job thus far of balancing the first 3 rides each week in this program with my running but I was looking at my calendar and realized that this program and my half marathon training plan are on a collision course next month... my HM is 12 Feb... and thus my taper week coincides with the beginning of Week #14 of this program... I want to maximize my potential for a new HM PR without jeopardizing the hard work and 13 weeks of following this program... do you have any recommendations? Can I push week 14? Thanks! you could place the plan on 'hold' for a few weeks while you taper and such by doing easy riding sessions with 'some' intensity. i.e. if the plan normally calls for 6x4' then do 3x4' or if suggest 4x10' do 1x10'. That way you get a bit of work to maintain your fitness without inducing much fatigue. when you complete the HM (and you better PR! PS. for my athletes, even for IM, the week of the race I have them do something like 3-4x4'@ 20MP no problem. just see what works for you |
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Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() jsiegs - 2012-01-05 8:59 PM Yes, that all makes sense. My question was more on the math in that you counted all of the calories burned coming from glycogen, when it's probably really only like 50% (as you said if you're around CP). So in your math of the 750 kcal, only 350 was from glycogen, or about 20% of your stores. Is that right? Remember, the 6x4' are done at 105%> above CP and also, as I mentioned above; CP relates to MLSS which is harder than LT. LT (1 mmol/liter above athlete baseline) which is when we are around 50% fat and 50% carbs oxidize is more like 75-80% CP. at CP with are prob more like 30% fat - 70% carbs. at 105% CP even higher. You are correct, not all kJ will come entirely from carbs but the majority will, in the case of the original question, the point is, to be careful as these workouts (plus your other tri workouts) can easily put you in a deficit if you are not fueling/refueling well, hence a workout that was easy early in the week might not be the same late in the week. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JorgeM - 2012-01-05 8:59 PM Oriondriver02 - 2012-01-05 3:00 PM Coach J- Looking for some advice... I have done a nice job thus far of balancing the first 3 rides each week in this program with my running but I was looking at my calendar and realized that this program and my half marathon training plan are on a collision course next month... my HM is 12 Feb... and thus my taper week coincides with the beginning of Week #14 of this program... I want to maximize my potential for a new HM PR without jeopardizing the hard work and 13 weeks of following this program... do you have any recommendations? Can I push week 14? Thanks! you could place the plan on 'hold' for a few weeks while you taper and such by doing easy riding sessions with 'some' intensity. i.e. if the plan normally calls for 6x4' then do 3x4' or if suggest 4x10' do 1x10'. That way you get a bit of work to maintain your fitness without inducing much fatigue. when you complete the HM (and you better PR! PS. for my athletes, even for IM, the week of the race I have them do something like 3-4x4'@ 20MP no problem. just see what works for you Thanks.. will give that a try... BTW... I had 80's streaming on Pandora this morning during my ride and oddly enough during the third 9' interval... your theme song came on... King of Pain by The Police! Have a great weekend!
Scott |
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![]() | ![]() JorgeM - 2012-01-05 9:50 PMIt is also why when you do that workout early in the AM, you struggle, because your glucose in the liver is usually depleted in the AM (as we burn it while sleeping), and since glucose is the primary fuel for your brain, then when your body is low, as a defense your body forces you to stop and you feel like 1 set at your 20MP feels more like a set at 160% of your CP. Fat, in this particular case (and most tri distances) is rarely (if ever) a limiter. This might explain my last few rides. My 5 minute test was dreadful, as was the first 6x4' interval day. Both of those were first thing in the morning with next to nothing eaten. The 20 minute test was done later in the day and I had a great result, with a pretty good jump from the first test. Thanks for the explanation. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Jorge, The ride I did tonight was the 3x10min ride. Is this considered the "sweet spot", and would you mind explaining the "sweet spot"? If not, would you mind pointing me in the direction to be able learn a bit more about it. Thanks. |
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New user ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I am torn between riding ERG mode on CT for testing and riding a regular flat ride (on CT as well). So far I've been doing my testing going as hard as I can for 5 or 20 minutes (flat ride). It would seem that ERG mode would make it easier to push bigger watts as it adjusts the resistance as you pedal (so you could just hang on for dear life and unless you blow up you'll hit your targeted watts). Riding flat-out ride means that there is some variability in the power output. Thoughts? |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I beleive I understand the principle and can offer an explanation of Sweet Spot. How best to train in the sweet spot I look to Coach Jorge to explain how a workout targets this result. Specifically, how does a 3x20 workbout target the sweet spot in a way that a 10x5 does not? Is it the duration of the working segment? As promised here is my brief explanation. For more information look into "Training and Racing with a Power Meter" by Allen and Coggan, and Dr. Skiba's book, The Triathlete's Guide to Training With Power. I re-read these each off season before starting my power training and I continue to grasp a bit more of what is heady stuff. Definition of Sweet Spot, As described by A. Coggan, Briefly, as intensity increases so does the physiological strain to the point that training effect is reduced. The resulting curve is where the sweet spot is. (Coggan_Sweet Spot.png) Attachments ---------------- Coggan_Sweet Spot.png (94KB - 20 downloads) |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Fit4Infinity - 2012-01-08 12:56 PM I beleive I understand the principle and can offer an explanation of Sweet Spot. How best to train in the sweet spot I look to Coach Jorge to explain how a workout targets this result. Specifically, how does a 3x20 workbout target the sweet spot in a way that a 10x5 does not? Is it the duration of the working segment? As promised here is my brief explanation. For more information look into "Training and Racing with a Power Meter" by Allen and Coggan, and Dr. Skiba's book, The Triathlete's Guide to Training With Power. I re-read these each off season before starting my power training and I continue to grasp a bit more of what is heady stuff. Definition of Sweet Spot, As described by A. Coggan, Briefly, as intensity increases so does the physiological strain to the point that training effect is reduced. The resulting curve is where the sweet spot is. Thanks so much. That was really helpful. I can see why you re-read Skiba's book. I read it over the summer, before getting a power meter. I have Coggan's book ordered. I'm looking forward to wrapping my head around these concepts more. Thanks again. |
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