Mad Manatee Mentors 2013: CLOSED (exc/ Pop Tart bribes) (Page 231)

Jen and Yanti know the story somewhat....

My ex (herein after referred to as the idiot in any references I make about him) and I were married when I was 20.  He was an alcoholic who couldn't stay sober.  10 years marriage and at least that many DUI.  Lost his drivers license in every state we lived in and some he wasn't even living in.

We separated shortly after my 31sth birthday. He had lost yet another job and gotten yet another DUI.  Seriously, coming home from an AA meeting DRUNK?  Yeah, color me gone.  I separated, moved into an apartment went to work and that was about it....except for some volunteer work at a kids summer camp that summer.

I had worked 3-11 at the hospital, stopped at my apartment to check on the cat and grab my bag --headed up to the camp about 10 miles away.  Found a bunk in with my friend who I was covering for the next day (she had to recertify her CPR at her work)....was up all night with a beautiful little girl who was having nightmares.  Poor kid....

Hung out with the kids all day....was getting ready to go to bed when the security guard comes to the door and asks for me.  Says I have a phone call.  I knew I hadn't worked so I didn't have the narcotic keys and no one would have a question about report--must be desperate for a night shift coverage....Get to the phone and it's an ER doc.  I worked on the telemetry unit at the time so I didn't know the ER docs much.  He proceeds to tell me my husband has been in an accident.  I'm ripping him up one side and down the other about refusing to go in and take care of that drunken SOB.  Pause for breath and he asked if there was any other next of kin.  I bark out a NO they're all out of state......then the phrase hits my brain cells...."next of kin".....I asked his condition and was informed that he normally doesn't give this info over the phone but my husband is dead.

Shock.    Silence     

I get back to my cabin and fall into my friends arms crying.  She takes me to the camp director cause now both RN's are taking off for the hospital and he has 50+ kids without a nurse (at least they are all in bed).  Get to the hospital and find out that said ER doc was GQ drop dead good looking (fine specimen of manhood he is--married one of the ER nurses a few years ago)

My idiot was driving up to where he was staying, it had been a rainy night and pretty foggy.  There's one section in town that had a low underpass which was clearly marked.  Truckers always wanted to go through it anyway.....Truck had gotten stuck.  Idiot thought he would wave on traffic.  Dark night, dark clothing and no flashlight.  Did I mention idiot?  Someone coming from the other side of town at a very slow speed just plain did not see him and hit him.  He was a very heavy smoker as well as drinker so the impact caused his aorta to separate.  He bled out almost instantly.  

My NOW hubby was working the trauma room that night cause the helicopter was down (can't fly in that kind of fog)  he pulled the wallet and was standing next to the GQ ER Doc when I was ripping him a new butt....Anyway, we had met a few months prior to that when I took ACLS and again when I recertified CPR (adult choking victim--how convenient)  He came into the room I was sitting in with my friend and someone else from church, kisses me on the cheek and says if I need anything to let him know.....

Few months went by and I saw him on my way out of the cafeteria.  We chit chat a bit....tell him to call me.....Next evening rotation he hunts me down and says "you didn't give me your number".  I gave him my number.....he starts calling me every day.  Now he lived in Lancaster, worked in Coatesville but went to school in Reading.  Mel can tell you these areas are all about a 45 minute radius apart......I invited him over to dinner and first thing he did was get down on the floor and make friends with the cat.  The IDIOT never liked my cats.  Score 1, he likes the cat and the cat likes him.....by our third date everyone "just had that feeling" that we were going to get married....We started dating in October and were engaged by April of the following spring.  20 years married now.

Jen and Yanti know the story somewhat....

My ex (herein after referred to as the idiot in any references I make about him) and I were married when I was 20.  He was an alcoholic who couldn't stay sober.  10 years marriage and at least that many DUI.  Lost his drivers license in every state we lived in and some he wasn't even living in.

We separated shortly after my 31sth birthday. He had lost yet another job and gotten yet another DUI.  Seriously, coming home from an AA meeting DRUNK?  Yeah, color me gone.  I separated, moved into an apartment went to work and that was about it....except for some volunteer work at a kids summer camp that summer.

I had worked 3-11 at the hospital, stopped at my apartment to check on the cat and grab my bag --headed up to the camp about 10 miles away.  Found a bunk in with my friend who I was covering for the next day (she had to recertify her CPR at her work)....was up all night with a beautiful little girl who was having nightmares.  Poor kid....

Hung out with the kids all day....was getting ready to go to bed when the security guard comes to the door and asks for me.  Says I have a phone call.  I knew I hadn't worked so I didn't have the narcotic keys and no one would have a question about report--must be desperate for a night shift coverage....Get to the phone and it's an ER doc.  I worked on the telemetry unit at the time so I didn't know the ER docs much.  He proceeds to tell me my husband has been in an accident.  I'm ripping him up one side and down the other about refusing to go in and take care of that drunken SOB.  Pause for breath and he asked if there was any other next of kin.  I bark out a NO they're all out of state......then the phrase hits my brain cells...."next of kin".....I asked his condition and was informed that he normally doesn't give this info over the phone but my husband is dead.

Shock.    Silence     

I get back to my cabin and fall into my friends arms crying.  She takes me to the camp director cause now both RN's are taking off for the hospital and he has 50+ kids without a nurse (at least they are all in bed).  Get to the hospital and find out that said ER doc was GQ drop dead good looking (fine specimen of manhood he is--married one of the ER nurses a few years ago)

My idiot was driving up to where he was staying, it had been a rainy night and pretty foggy.  There's one section in town that had a low underpass which was clearly marked.  Truckers always wanted to go through it anyway.....Truck had gotten stuck.  Idiot thought he would wave on traffic.  Dark night, dark clothing and no flashlight.  Did I mention idiot?  Someone coming from the other side of town at a very slow speed just plain did not see him and hit him.  He was a very heavy smoker as well as drinker so the impact caused his aorta to separate.  He bled out almost instantly.  

My NOW hubby was working the trauma room that night cause the helicopter was down (can't fly in that kind of fog)  he pulled the wallet and was standing next to the GQ ER Doc when I was ripping him a new butt....Anyway, we had met a few months prior to that when I took ACLS and again when I recertified CPR (adult choking victim--how convenient)  He came into the room I was sitting in with my friend and someone else from church, kisses me on the cheek and says if I need anything to let him know.....

Few months went by and I saw him on my way out of the cafeteria.  We chit chat a bit....tell him to call me.....Next evening rotation he hunts me down and says "you didn't give me your number".  I gave him my number.....he starts calling me every day.  Now he lived in Lancaster, worked in Coatesville but went to school in Reading.  Mel can tell you these areas are all about a 45 minute radius apart......I invited him over to dinner and first thing he did was get down on the floor and make friends with the cat.  The IDIOT never liked my cats.  Score 1, he likes the cat and the cat likes him.....by our third date everyone "just had that feeling" that we were going to get married....We started dating in October and were engaged by April of the following spring.  20 years married now.

And her current DH is a sweetie.  Plus, it's hilarious when you first hear that story and meet him.  It's gotta be great for her girls' boyfriends.

Going at a variety of efforts and distances, and efforts within the distances, can help one get an idea of where they are. It gives a bigger picture of what the performance curve looks like and how things feel throughout them. The occasional run off the bike is helpful, but don't get carried away. Especially with longer courses as it becomes more about knowing fitness levels and applying it.

It sounds like you did ok from the race report. You went out easier on the bike. That's what you should do. It's very easy to go too hard, so go easier at first to get rid of the swim feeling. Get your bike senses and see how things feel. Probably watch that "give 'er the beans" (??) feeling late in the ride. Especially with a run like that coming up. The profile has a few decent hills on it, looks like more smaller things on their site as well. You did well in backing off early on, not forcing your goal. What you could have done is try to push the pace earlier than you did, but not in the first few miles. Not when you had doubts like that. That comes with experience, and more so with running in general as opposed to trying more big brick workouts. Then in knowing in a tri, your energy will likely fall off faster than a stand alone run of similar size.

OK, kids, tomorrow I'm headed to beautiful Lake Placid for a week of swimming in gorgeous, clean, clear Mirror Lake, biking the IMLP bike course, volunteering during the IMLP race ('velo angel', aka bike handler), spectating when not volunteering, running roads and trails, eating Ben & Jerry's, tubing, and doing whatever fun stuff presents itself!!  I will more than likely be absent from the manatee thread and my logs unless I try to access it with my Kindle (we'll see how that goes), but I may show up on Strava if the app works on my iPod.

Have fun, happy training, and be safe!

Thanks Ben.  I really appreciate the feedback. 

I shouldn't have hit it so hard at the end of the bike, but I was sooo high that it had gone well and I was feeling really good.  I could also see that I was close to 21mph on my Garmin  LOL. There.  I said it.  I am a complete dork. 

I really need to grow up.

So when you're training for a HIM what kinds of distances and efforts do you shoot for with your rides and runs?  I know that's a very broad-stroke kinda question, and could depend a lot on how far you are from the race. 

Is there a good book you'd recommend for me to start wrapping my head around this?

And the most hilarious thing of the day?

I have been feeling all bummed out about my swim--and it did SUCK, don't get me wrong, but, ummm, someone needs to pay attention to the /100m after the time.  Meters, dumbazz, not yards. 1:58/100m =1:48/100yds.  Still not great, but better than I thought. 

Fach, I'm a bonehead.

My story for you was your x was on death row and your now husband pulled the switch!  Your real story is way better

Yikes! This was 30 minutes from our house last night. We also got some hail, but nothing like this. Thankfully Jayson and I weren't there -- we are planning to head there a couple times this week, but we went to the gym last night.

Softball sized hail

Skiba's books over on Physfarm are good to get a handle on a number of training principles. Training & Racing With a Powermeter is good for more bike specific. BarryP's links over on ST are good to read. I've like excerpts from Jack Daniels work, but don't have the book. Been meaning to get that. Swimming is a bit trickier as that should be more interactive than a book to get feedback. Think it's still possible to get some solid workout sets though.

The running & riding should also take into account the individual's ability and time available. I have more time and want to use it, so for riding I tend to do more bigger blocks of effort (Mon & Wed workouts typically) and then sometimes go up higher in shorter ones. Someone with less time would likely go up a bit higher, but not for as long. The books above will explain in more detail, but generally it's various points around threshold (Z4) and sometimes up in Z5 for VO2. And regardless of how long the race is, pushing these does matter. And for how big towards being ready for the race, well, actually riding a similar time at a similar effort to what you might do in the race. Could be riding the entire time that way or pushing bigger blocks a bit harder with some recovery. Not too different from some of my Wednesday work, but 20-30 minute sections would be good.

Running will go as often as one can get in. Most all of it will be easy Z2 work, but some faster running should be put in. I like to try to get one a week in, but am not really disappointed if it ends up being strides a few times. So long as that doesn't go on for more than a few weeks at a time. How far to go is a good question. It's nice to get up near the event distance, but that must be kept in balance with the weekly mileage. Might seem kind of vague, but it's really a balancing act. To run well here one has to be able to run well. And one has to have energy left by the time they get to the run. A stronger runner can absorb more from the earlier parts, but it can still only do so much.

Then don't forget about the swimming. I'd suspect your injury tired you out a bit more than it may have felt. Swimming is really a tricky issue that can get overlooked. One might feel *fine* getting out of the water, but are much more drained than they think. It doesn't necessarily show up right away. The best HIM run I've had is when the swim was cancelled, and it's not even close. I had even biked harder than planned, ending up 20-25 watts over the target range, which is a huge difference.

Elesa, please keep in mind that this comes from someone who still has not had a really good race. I'm still trying to figure it out, but I think that is one of the parts I really like. There is almost always a way to improve. So I think there are big ways to help a racer (more training, more intensity, blah, blah, blah) and small ways to help (such as transitions, preparation, course knowledge, yada, yada, yada).  You mentioned the run, that you had trouble at the beginning and just didn't have it in the tank. I've seen a few people on here that do transition runs, short 10-20 minute runs after a bike ride. I believe this is to give you a better idea of those first couple of miles, give you a better idea of the feeling in the legs. You might find that to be helpful, rather than more long bike/run brics. You also mentioned that you tried about 12 new things on race day. Well, good on ya for getting those out of the way, but really, "nothing new on race day" is stated for a reason. 

Now, let's be honest. First race at this distance, AG podium, good experience in the bike leg, battled through the swim, and you learned a number of things that you can bring to your next race. That has all the markings of a great race, IMHO. Be proud and keep working on it!

So I have done a TON of 20-30 mile bikes with 2-4 mile running immediately post.  Part of that was that I was in the running every day challenge, and it just worked out to run right after getting done with the bike.  How many times a day can a girl shower, really? These felt good, but I most definitely was not pushing at the same level or for the same duration on the bike.  Even in my oly (again, only done one, so not a lot of experience), ran well off the bike (7:30s), but my bike was only 19.8 (I think?). 

I have done quite a bit of bike training between the oly and HIM, but all signs are pointing to overcooking the bike, especially before a fairly challenging run course.  I think I averaged 22.5 or something for that last 8 mile section, and I paid for it. I'm not sure how to really figure out the balance between faster time on the bike costing run time, but what I'm hope, hope, hoping is that I just need to be a better cyclist--stronger, more experienced, smarter--and that by doing that, I'll be a better runner.  

I'm also now thinking that I didn't have enough cals on the bike.  I need to rethink my nutrition a bit. 

Again, thanks everyone for bearing with me as I sort this out and come up with a game plan. Really appreciate it!

I consider myself a runner--many marathons (3:20 PR), including a couple of Bostons.  I should be able to get the run to be fairly strong. I don't have a PM, and I can't imagine one in the next year or so, but between now and AGN my plan is to do some good work on TR 3x/week (starting with retesting 2x 20) and try to get a longer ride outside with a group 1/week.  If I can just be a stronger cyclist, maybe my legs will be so cashed on the run?  My average HR on the bike during the race was a good 12-15bpm higher than it is during my training rides; I'm now guessing it shouldn't be My run mileage has been between 35-45 mpw with a long run of 12+ and as high as 16 for all but one of my weeks pre-HIM, almost all Z2 with a tempo 1x/week.  I will definitely look at Barry's stuff though, and see what I need to adjust.  Did you know he doesn't even run anymore?  Lol.

I'm also now thinking I mismanaged my nutrition a bit and was close to a bonk on the run.  7 1/2 gels (5 on the bike and 2.5 on the run) and 1 20 oz bottle of Cytomax on the bike for cals, so maybe I need to up this a bit more.  I also need to learn how to eat breakfast

Sorry for all this silly tri talk Manatees

Think I forgot to mention that it's not necessary to have a powermeter for those books to be of use, as one of Skiba's deals with power as well. They also have HR in there and possibly some guidance on RPE too. And what your average HR ends up being depends on what you want out of the ride. Average doesn't necessarily have to be up at HIM levels, but you should be quite familiar with working at that level or higher. Often several times a week you'll have parts of the workout be above it. There are the training benefits of working at the higher levels and the sharpness factor for the races. For me, keeping that sharpness has been more important on the bike than for running. Running has just needed to be rested, but I can get stuck (so to speak) at a lower power output if I'm not used to working higher. Usually it doesn't take much to get that though.

That's funny how you knew BarryP, but not the running! I'd heard he doesn't run anymore. Some try to question him because of that, but I think he did rather well for a guy who really wasn't supposed to be able to run at all.

Way late here, but CONGRATULATIONS SWITCHY!!!!!

Crazy awesome 1st HIM and you did it perfectly ... ain't the result but the experience and now seeking to build on that. You rock.

So I have done a TON of 20-30 mile bikes with 2-4 mile running immediately post.  Part of that was that I was in the running every day challenge, and it just worked out to run right after getting done with the bike.  How many times a day can a girl shower, really? These felt good, but I most definitely was not pushing at the same level or for the same duration on the bike.  Even in my oly (again, only done one, so not a lot of experience), ran well off the bike (7:30s), but my bike was only 19.8 (I think?). 

I have done quite a bit of bike training between the oly and HIM, but all signs are pointing to overcooking the bike, especially before a fairly challenging run course.  I think I averaged 22.5 or something for that last 8 mile section, and I paid for it. I'm not sure how to really figure out the balance between faster time on the bike costing run time, but what I'm hope, hope, hoping is that I just need to be a better cyclist--stronger, more experienced, smarter--and that by doing that, I'll be a better runner.  

I'm also now thinking that I didn't have enough cals on the bike.  I need to rethink my nutrition a bit. 

Again, thanks everyone for bearing with me as I sort this out and come up with a game plan. Really appreciate it!

So, for the first 20' ride in zone 2. Eat and drink cautiously the first 20-30', once your HR settle, follow your feeding and hydration plan. If you expect a 2:30-2:50 bike split, go to low to mid zone 3 HR, that may creep up to mid- high z3 near the end of the bike. If you expect a >3:00 bike, dial in a mid- high zone 2 HR that may creep up to low z3 near the end.

Nutrition

Goal is to exit the bike completely fueled having lost minimal weight to fluids. Target is to pee 1x on bike. Water is useless on race day except to cool you. It doesn't leave your gut ( no sodium) and is relatively int. if you plan on water, make sure you add sodium to get it out of your stomach. You should take in 150-250 calories/hour, preferably mostly liquid, as a function of body size. You should aim for 1000mg of sodium per hour across all fuel sources.

. It is recommended that you use course nutrition to alleviate logistics of fueling. Typically drink 1-2 bottles of sports drink per hour depending on sweat rate and calorie needs. Typically eat a gel or 1/2 power bar every 40 minutes starting at 20' on the bike. Add salt as needed at 60 minute intervals.

the hotter the day, the more you need to plan to drink early in the bike. For example, if your plan calls for 2 bottles per hour, try for 3 in first hour.

. On the run try to dial in your HR at 10-15 beats higher than averaged on the bike.

Miles 0-3: you are on defense, you are not trying to make something happen, doing so only accelerates the Suck's arrival. Walk 20-30 steps at aid stations. Go to last coke/water/gel guy, get what you need, walk the steps and then start running.

Miles 4-10: Smooth and steady. Things are going to get hard, so continually self evaluate to see what you need to keep things going, eg, food, fluids, sodium. Be as steady as you can be, using pace to flatten the hills and set yourself up for the final push.

Miles 10-14: permission to suffer!

Run nutrition: the bike fuels the run. Have a nutrition plan across all aid stations, eg, #1' sports drink, #2 sports drink, #3 sports drink + gel. Keep it liquid or other ez to digest stuffs. Carry additional sodium in case you need water or the temperature spikes. Later in the day, coke is great. Fix any stomach issues by slowing down and/ or backing off calories a bit.

. That's it, hope it is helpful. I will be trying to follow it for my HIM. One of the things that jumps out on me re nutrition is the water comments. In my last HIM, I used water almost exclusively and did not add sodium. This time I will either add the sodium or switch to a sports drink depending upon how my training experiments go.

Ann-Marie - thanks for the post on nutrition intake, and how your body will react at the beginning of each leg.  I remember during IMAZ that the first bike loop felt AMAZING and I was flying by people wondering why they were going so slow... and then I totally crashed out. 

It also could have had a teensy bit to do with the fact that pretty much all training just stopped about 5 weeks out. FYI - not the best way to prepare for a race.