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2013-07-09 2:34 AM
in reply to: KansasMom

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by KansasMom

 

Which makes me wonder -- how low would you all swim without a wetsuit?

I've never swam with a wetsuit.  I think only once was one my races wetsuit legal, and it was by like half a degree, in waters that are almost never wetsuit legal.  The RD made the announcement that you could wear a wetsuit if you wanted, but everyone would laugh at you.  It was a joke...simply because nobody ever uses one here, and you only own one if you do races outside Hawaii.

That said, I'm going to assume if I wore a wetsuit, I'd leave Arend in my wake.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it until I'm proven wrong. 



2013-07-09 2:58 AM
in reply to: Jason N

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Elite
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PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by Jason N
Originally posted by KansasMom

 

Which makes me wonder -- how low would you all swim without a wetsuit?

I've never swam with a wetsuit.  I think only once was one my races wetsuit legal, and it was by like half a degree, in waters that are almost never wetsuit legal.  The RD made the announcement that you could wear a wetsuit if you wanted, but everyone would laugh at you.  It was a joke...simply because nobody ever uses one here, and you only own one if you do races outside Hawaii.

on the flip side, I've only done one race that wasn't wetsuit legal.  When the RD made the announcement, lots of people dropped from the Olympic to the sprint, some packed up their stuff and left... Undecided

That said, I'm going to assume if I wore a wetsuit, I'd leave Arend in my wake.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it until I'm proven wrong. 

Bring it on bang-a-gong!

To answer the original question, I would be fine without a wetsuit in most cooler temps as well as in a wetsuit in warm water.  The exception to both might be something like an IM distance - anything shorter and I could make do either way.  That said, if it's legal to wear it, I do purely for the speed.

2013-07-09 6:21 AM
in reply to: TankBoy

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Master
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Englewood, Florida
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by TankBoy

Around these parts we talk about how much faster we are when it is cool and dry. Heh.

Low humidity is generally faster than cooler temperature for me.

The humidity vs heat discussion has been interesting for me. I run predawn to escape the heat, so it has been 75* and 90+ humidity for a while now.  That should continue until mid September. I have to go back through my logs and see what types of differences I notice, since I note the temp and humidity in there. I generally ride in the heat of the day and never take humidity into consideration.

I love January and February.

2013-07-09 9:05 AM
in reply to: mcmanusclan5

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Master
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by mcmanusclan5
Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 Not sure about this (as in " don't understand"). Could you elaborate on why wetsuits last would work better?I'd think that it would be the other way 'round to avoid people swimming through all the previous waves. No?And, yes, imanoob...

The issue with IMLP is that if it is not wetsuit legal, you still have the option of wearing a wetsuit, but you won't qualify for awards or a Kona spot.  Which means the fastest athletes will all ditch the wetsuit, and you'll still have a whole bunch of average AGers who will still decide to use the wetsuit because they want to swim faster but have no chance at a podium/Kona. 

When you mix those two together, then you get a whole bunch of swimmers who are normally slower now mixing it up with the top AG swimmers in a huge scrum.  Naturally you could make the argument that the swimmers could seed themselves accordingly based on if they are wearing a wetsuit or not...but good luck with that.  Imagine telling a guy who's trying to KQ with a 1:02 non wetsuit swim and a 9:20 overall finishing time that he needs to start the race 10 rows back.  That's not going to happen.

Thanks.  

Decisions people make never fail to amaze me, and I'm about as die-hard a cynic (for an optimist) as you'll find.  I wouldn't have even considered anyone choosing to swim in a wetsuit if it's not "wetsuit legal."  I know it's legal, as in allowed and you won't get pulled off the course, even if you're not "really" in the race, but it doesn't feel that much different from doping / surreptitiously taking T and the like for some reason.  I know plenty of people apparently do this.  And draft.  Yell  But still…  

Odd, perhaps, but it just didn't occur to me that someone would still use the wetsuit to swim fast when it won't "matter" from an official result standpoint.  Why would you?  Wouldn't you want to compare your time to the field and normalize it to the day in some way?  I suppose it's all about beating a previous time and competing against yourself and all that, but once it's not "wetsuit legal," it just seems to be not "wetsuit happening."  And I'm hardly a Kona contender!!

Am I missing something?  I really don't mean to sound self-righteous (if I did, you'd know!), just really surprised by this one.  Is there a common way of thinking on this in the tri-community that I haven't seen?  As disclaimed, I'm a noob and admit to missing pieces of the tribe's culture - especially on situations where I haven't personally had to make the choice (like, not surprisingly, a wetsuit non-legal swim).  Just going on gut here...

And if I use "quotes" one more time, I'm going to ban myself from online forums for a month.  Tongue out

Matt

Whoo-whee, Matt - you must be new; this topic is almost as bad as discussing politics or religion for some folks!

Like you and Arend, I am rather ambivalent about it; I'll wear a wetsuit if legal for awards, but not otherwise. And that is not because I think I will be competitive, but just because a) I like to race the race as it is, and b) I think the cut-offs are there for good reason. I don't think it is a big deal that others make different decisions though. For instance at LP in 2011 I know a number of folks that elected to wear one not because they needed it as a crutch, but instead because they had raced the course a number of times before and wanted to be able to compare their times against each other. I suppose that makes sense on some level, but my experience tells me that it is very difficult to compare one IM to the next even on the same course.

The psychology behind the decision IS interesting; in LP that year there were only +/- 300 folks that went without out of 2500+ starters. That is crazy; but in talking to a friend that works for WTC their post-race analysis led them to believe that had the groups been separated into wetsuit and non-wetsuit waves those number would likely have been vastly different. I think one of the most interesting take-aways from that race is that it was reported to have the largest DNF rate of any year, and from a weather perspective it was one of the best years ever. While they may not be related at all, that still reinforces my own belief that the cut-offs are where they are for good reason. The difficult thing for RDs (and I don't have any good ideas about how to fix it) is that there are already so many different races going on at the same time that to add yet another one (a wetsuit race and a non-wetsuit race) just further complicates matters, particularly as almost all WTC swims are two loops. In the end I don't lose too much sleep about it: it is what it is. Honestly the only thing that bugs me a little about 2011 is that while only non-wetsuit swimmers were able to Kona qualify, the final results still show everyone lumped together. But ST offers enhanced results for most IMs, so even that is not terrible, just makes you wonder why WTC can't do the same...

Felicia - I don't know how cold I would swim without a wetsuit, but in training I would rather not if the water temp is above about 72 degrees or so. We typically get one early local race per year that is legal, and then everything else is without. Our earliest OWS practices this year were in the very low 50s - for those I wore a neoprene cap sandwich, booties, and even gloves for the first one. I actually didn't find those swims very productive actually - just more "yeah, we are tough-guys" kind stuff. Silly, really - it would have been better to spend the time in the pool.

2013-07-09 9:22 AM
in reply to: TankBoy

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Master
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Mechanicsburg, PA
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Hi All,

I really hate to bug you guys about this. I need help figuring out something. The something is a swim speed suit. I think that's what it's called. It's basically what people wear if an Ironman swim is deemed non wetsuit legal. It looks like (to me) a one-piece tri suit.

Questions:

1. What are the significant advantages over bare skin and jammer swimwear?

2. Do these legal speed suits contain buoyancy?

3. Recommendations for speed suits.

4. Bottom line in your opinion, is it worth the investment for a 1 hour Ironman swimmer to use a speed suit in a non wetsuit legal Ironman competition?


Thank you for any response.
2013-07-09 9:35 AM
in reply to: BrotherTri

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Elite
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PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Originally posted by BrotherTri Hi All, I really hate to bug you guys about this. I need help figuring out something. The something is a swim speed suit. I think that's what it's called. It's basically what people wear if an Ironman swim is deemed non wetsuit legal. It looks like (to me) a one-piece tri suit. Questions: 1. What are the significant advantages over bare skin and jammer swimwear? 2. Do these legal speed suits contain buoyancy? 3. Recommendations for speed suits. 4. Bottom line in your opinion, is it worth the investment for a 1 hour Ironman swimmer to use a speed suit in a non wetsuit legal Ironman competition? Thank you for any response.

Monty @ ST has done a bunch of reviews and testing with them.  His general consensus seemed to be (for him at least) is that you save about 3s/100 with the speed suits.  Over an IM, that's close to 2 minutes.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Wetsuit_by_brand/HUUB/HUUB_SKN-1_3642.html
http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Wetsuit_by_brand/Zoot/SpeedZoot_2.0_3260.html 
http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Wetsuit_by_brand/TYR/TYR_Torque_2012_3183.html 

They have no buoyancy at all - it's one of the requirements for their legality as far as I know.

For recommendations, it's probably a lot like a wetsuit in that it probably has to fit you well to be effective.  I personally have never tried one on.  

As for whether or not it's worth it, will 2 minutes make a difference in whether or not you beat Rusty?  Tongue out



2013-07-09 10:09 AM
in reply to: axteraa

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Master
2621
2000500100
Mechanicsburg, PA
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by BrotherTri Hi All, I really hate to bug you guys about this. I need help figuring out something. The something is a swim speed suit. I think that's what it's called. It's basically what people wear if an Ironman swim is deemed non wetsuit legal. It looks like (to me) a one-piece tri suit. Questions: 1. What are the significant advantages over bare skin and jammer swimwear? 2. Do these legal speed suits contain buoyancy? 3. Recommendations for speed suits. 4. Bottom line in your opinion, is it worth the investment for a 1 hour Ironman swimmer to use a speed suit in a non wetsuit legal Ironman competition? Thank you for any response.

Monty @ ST has done a bunch of reviews and testing with them.  His general consensus seemed to be (for him at least) is that you save about 3s/100 with the speed suits.  Over an IM, that's close to 2 minutes.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Wetsuit_by_brand/HUUB/HUUB_SKN-1_3642.html
http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Wetsuit_by_brand/Zoot/SpeedZoot_2.0_3260.html 
http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Wetsuit_by_brand/TYR/TYR_Torque_2012_3183.html 

They have no buoyancy at all - it's one of the requirements for their legality as far as I know.

For recommendations, it's probably a lot like a wetsuit in that it probably has to fit you well to be effective.  I personally have never tried one on.  

As for whether or not it's worth it, will 2 minutes make a difference in whether or not you beat Rusty?  Tongue out




Thank you Arend! That info is good stuff. I would agree 3s/100 would not be worth it to me. I'll do jammers and bare skin. I should still hit my swim goal, but then again not too terribly important. The day will be long enough and if I push to hard to early that last 1-2 hours will get even longer. My swimming fitness has been very good so far this year so I will trust in that. It would sux if at the end 2mins matter. Hey that is life its only a over priced race.

2013-07-09 10:32 AM
in reply to: BrotherTri

Subject: ...
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2013-07-09 10:36 AM
in reply to: axteraa

Master
2912
2000500100100100100
...at home in The ATL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by BrotherTri Hi All, I really hate to bug you guys about this. I need help figuring out something. The something is a swim speed suit. I think that's what it's called. It's basically what people wear if an Ironman swim is deemed non wetsuit legal. It looks like (to me) a one-piece tri suit. Questions: 1. What are the significant advantages over bare skin and jammer swimwear? 2. Do these legal speed suits contain buoyancy? 3. Recommendations for speed suits. 4. Bottom line in your opinion, is it worth the investment for a 1 hour Ironman swimmer to use a speed suit in a non wetsuit legal Ironman competition? Thank you for any response.

Monty @ ST has done a bunch of reviews and testing with them.  His general consensus seemed to be (for him at least) is that you save about 3s/100 with the speed suits.  Over an IM, that's close to 2 minutes.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Wetsuit_by_brand/HUUB/HUUB_SKN-1_3642.html
http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Wetsuit_by_brand/Zoot/SpeedZoot_2.0_3260.html 
http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Wetsuit_by_brand/TYR/TYR_Torque_2012_3183.html 

They have no buoyancy at all - it's one of the requirements for their legality as far as I know.

For recommendations, it's probably a lot like a wetsuit in that it probably has to fit you well to be effective.  I personally have never tried one on.  

As for whether or not it's worth it, will 2 minutes make a difference in whether or not you beat Rusty?  Tongue out

Yeah James, my recommendation is that you forget the speed suit and instead wear ankle bands, at least at at Lake Placid.

I wear one (TYR Torque Pro), but have never tested it against a tri-suit. I honestly don't think it makes me any faster than a plain-old speedo (and if it does not NEARLY as fast as the ST claims), but I think it has to be faster than a two piece tri-suit if only because it smooths everything out. And I can get it off WAY faster than I can put on a tri-top when wet in T-1. Plus, I can already have my gels in my pockets on the swim which saves a tiny bit of T1 time as well. Like I said in my earlier post, virtually all of our races around here are non-wetsuit legal, so we get to use a speedsuit a lot. I don't know if I would spring for one if I hardly ever got the chance to use it.

FWIW (and I know looking at these numbers can get you in all sorts of trouble), in 2011 (non-wetsuit swim) 10:47:14 went to Kona in your AG. In 2012 (wetsuit legal) it was 10:43:10. Knowing what your goal time is I Would think an extra minute or two about it....

But then again, IMLP is going to be wetsuit legal, so really no worries, right? Laughing

2013-07-09 10:41 AM
in reply to: BrotherTri

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

http://www.usatriathlon.org/about-multisport/rulebook/approved-skinsuits.aspx

There have been changes to the approved swim skin list a couple of years ago to remove any swim skin that was partially rubberized.  So you want to make sure if you consider one it's approved.

I actually found a used blue seventy PZ3TX on the ST classifieds for half price and was claimed to only been used once as a test because it was too small.  Should get it sometime next week so I'll let you guys know what benefits it may or may not have.  I figure it's "somewhat" worth it to me being that none of my local races are wetsuit legal to begin with, but I was having a hard time justifying paying full price.  $150 was something I could handle, and I would also likely have no problem flipping it here for basically what I paid if it didn't work out for me.

2013-07-09 10:48 AM
in reply to: BrotherTri

Master
5557
50005002525
, California
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by BrotherTri
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by BrotherTri Hi All, I really hate to bug you guys about this. I need help figuring out something. The something is a swim speed suit. I think that's what it's called. It's basically what people wear if an Ironman swim is deemed non wetsuit legal. It looks like (to me) a one-piece tri suit. Questions: 1. What are the significant advantages over bare skin and jammer swimwear? 2. Do these legal speed suits contain buoyancy? 3. Recommendations for speed suits. 4. Bottom line in your opinion, is it worth the investment for a 1 hour Ironman swimmer to use a speed suit in a non wetsuit legal Ironman competition? Thank you for any response.

Monty @ ST has done a bunch of reviews and testing with them.  His general consensus seemed to be (for him at least) is that you save about 3s/100 with the speed suits.  Over an IM, that's close to 2 minutes.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Wetsuit_by_brand/HUUB/HUUB_SKN-1_3642.html
http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Wetsuit_by_brand/Zoot/SpeedZoot_2.0_3260.html 
http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Wetsuit_by_brand/TYR/TYR_Torque_2012_3183.html 

They have no buoyancy at all - it's one of the requirements for their legality as far as I know.

For recommendations, it's probably a lot like a wetsuit in that it probably has to fit you well to be effective.  I personally have never tried one on.  

As for whether or not it's worth it, will 2 minutes make a difference in whether or not you beat Rusty?  Tongue out

Thank you Arend! That info is good stuff. I would agree 3s/100 would not be worth it to me. I'll do jammers and bare skin. I should still hit my swim goal, but then again not too terribly important. The day will be long enough and if I push to hard to early that last 1-2 hours will get even longer. My swimming fitness has been very good so far this year so I will trust in that. It would sux if at the end 2mins matter. Hey that is life its only a over priced race.

I like this one:

http://www.desotosport.com/product/LF1

Probably slightly slower than a "real" speedsuit like the Tyr.  But this thing is just like a regular singlet for the rest of the race, if you want.  That way you don't have to mess with anything in T1.



2013-07-09 10:48 AM
in reply to: TSimone

Master
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2000500100100100100
...at home in The ATL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Originally posted by TSimone Is 3 seconds/100 worth it in terms of energy saved, rather than speed? If not, what's the "break even" point? I ask because I honestly don't know.

Tom - it wouldn't be for me; I think my breakpoint on the swim just as a matter of energy savings based on my current swim ability and overall fitness on an IM swim would be about 10 minutes maybe, but that is just a WAG, honestly. This may be backwards from reality, but my gut tells me that the longer you are on the course, the more those few little minutes matter from an "energy saved" standpoint. The other thing to think about on an IM swim is what is the state of T1 when you come out of the water? My personal experience shows that coming out of the water in 1:10 vs. 1:20 makes for a dramatically different experience/time savings there. I am hoping to come out of the water a little faster than that this year, but to your point, I would be just as happy with the same time as last year but being even more "fresh and relaxed."

2013-07-09 11:03 AM
in reply to: spudone

Master
2912
2000500100100100100
...at home in The ATL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by spudone 

http://www.desotosport.com/product/LF1

Probably slightly slower than a "real" speedsuit like the Tyr.  But this thing is just like a regular singlet for the rest of the race, if you want.  That way you don't have to mess with anything in T1.

Yup, I love this suit (disclaimer: I am an unabashed lover of DeSoto clothing for both training and racing) I raced sprints and olympic races in it for a season, but since aiming at IM I have switched back to a two piece suit even for the sorter races. The only think I wish they offered was a version with their "water lid" pockets as I do like a gel or two in olympic races. I always just stuck a gel up the leg of this suit though so it was not really a big deal.

2013-07-09 11:17 AM
in reply to: TankBoy

Subject: ...
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2013-07-09 11:25 AM
in reply to: TSimone

Master
2912
2000500100100100100
...at home in The ATL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by TSimone
Originally posted by TankBoy
Originally posted by spudone 

http://www.desotosport.com/product/LF1

Probably slightly slower than a "real" speedsuit like the Tyr.  But this thing is just like a regular singlet for the rest of the race, if you want.  That way you don't have to mess with anything in T1.

Yup, I love this suit (disclaimer: I am an unabashed lover of DeSoto clothing for both training and racing) I raced sprints and olympic races in it for a season, but since aiming at IM I have switched back to a two piece suit even for the sorter races. The only think I wish they offered was a version with their "water lid" pockets as I do like a gel or two in olympic races. I always just stuck a gel up the leg of this suit though so it was not really a big deal.

May the ITU suit is a good compromise?  http://www.desotosport.com/product/FIT1 I too love Desoto.

oof - I gotta have a front zip: reference the "heat and humidity" discussion. I do have an ITU suit from our university team that I like to wear when I can, but it is not often because of the lack of a front zipper. I would probably try the Riviera trisuit (front zip, water lid pockets) if I went back to a one piece. Isn't there someone in the group that is racing in the white version of this one?

2013-07-09 11:37 AM
in reply to: TankBoy

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by TankBoy

Originally posted by TSimone Is 3 seconds/100 worth it in terms of energy saved, rather than speed? If not, what's the "break even" point? I ask because I honestly don't know.

Tom - it wouldn't be for me; I think my breakpoint on the swim just as a matter of energy savings based on my current swim ability and overall fitness on an IM swim would be about 10 minutes maybe, but that is just a WAG, honestly. This may be backwards from reality, but my gut tells me that the longer you are on the course, the more those few little minutes matter from an "energy saved" standpoint. The other thing to think about on an IM swim is what is the state of T1 when you come out of the water? My personal experience shows that coming out of the water in 1:10 vs. 1:20 makes for a dramatically different experience/time savings there. I am hoping to come out of the water a little faster than that this year, but to your point, I would be just as happy with the same time as last year but being even more "fresh and relaxed."

Good thoughts on the T1 timing. I was going to add about how the energy savings come about. For a swim skin, since it has no buoyancy, it's pretty much just going to be reduced swimming time. The wetsuit is going to help support, so would also save energy by reducing the need for balance & kick.

I don't remember there being a specific buoyancy test for the suits, but that they had to be of the textile material, which is really hard to get any sort of buoyancy from. DeSoto does claim their pad adds lift, but can't say I notice anything in using the Liftfoil for just over a year now, several non-wetsuit swims. Since it was suggested, I think it's a really well built suit. But wonder if it's going to be hot out? I don't think it breathes as well as others might. Its design seems to be more like part way between tri suit and swim skin. In the water it's fine, but wondering about how hot it might get in the later stages of the race.



2013-07-09 11:51 AM
in reply to: brigby1

Master
2912
2000500100100100100
...at home in The ATL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
On a completely different subject, I ordered a couple of replacement battery caps for our quarq power meters last week and FedEx just delivered them. I was happily surprised to see that they are metal: they appear to be anodized aluminum. For those of you that use the quarq PM, you know that the battery compartment sits outboard of the chain rings, and if you ever drop your chain to the outside you stand a good chance of cracking the battery cover, which was originally plastic, at least in the version we have. I have needed to replace the covers at least once per year since we have owned them. This is a very good upgrade - I imagine that all of their newer PMs already ship with these caps? If you still have the plastic cap I recommend you contact quarq and have them send you one free of charge.
2013-07-09 11:53 AM
in reply to: TankBoy

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.
2013-07-09 12:33 PM
in reply to: TankBoy

Elite
7783
50002000500100100252525
PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by TankBoy
Originally posted by TSimone
Originally posted by TankBoy
Originally posted by spudone 

http://www.desotosport.com/product/LF1

Probably slightly slower than a "real" speedsuit like the Tyr.  But this thing is just like a regular singlet for the rest of the race, if you want.  That way you don't have to mess with anything in T1.

Yup, I love this suit (disclaimer: I am an unabashed lover of DeSoto clothing for both training and racing) I raced sprints and olympic races in it for a season, but since aiming at IM I have switched back to a two piece suit even for the sorter races. The only think I wish they offered was a version with their "water lid" pockets as I do like a gel or two in olympic races. I always just stuck a gel up the leg of this suit though so it was not really a big deal.

May the ITU suit is a good compromise?  http://www.desotosport.com/product/FIT1 I too love Desoto.

oof - I gotta have a front zip: reference the "heat and humidity" discussion. I do have an ITU suit from our university team that I like to wear when I can, but it is not often because of the lack of a front zipper. I would probably try the Riviera trisuit (front zip, water lid pockets) if I went back to a one piece. Isn't there someone in the group that is racing in the white version of this one?

http://www.desotosport.com/product/RTT

That's what I wore for Mont Tremblant.  Love the front zip and the water lid pockets.  I haven't yet tried swimming in it sans wetsuit to know what that's like.

2013-07-09 1:16 PM
in reply to: 0

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Can we get a little geeky for a moment?  A thread on ST causes me to post this, now that I have some power data on longer rides, I'd like to know what it all means, and how to use it best to my advantage at IM Canada.  [NB - I am also asking my coach, I'd just like to hear what you guys here think as well].   

I've done 3 long "power based" rides in the last couple months, as well as more group oriented rides where I was not following numbers.   The data is below.  For baseline, I am between 185-190#, IM Canada has about 5700 feet of elevation, two longish climbs broken up by 30 miles of pancake flat about miles 60-90.  I've been following a similar profile on these training rides, about :30-:45 of warmup, :45 ish climb, 2:00 of flat, :45 ish climb.   Flats were in the 190-210 range, climbs supposed to be in the 215-230 range...

I have not run after any of these rides.  I have an IM sim day this Saturday with 6 hours plus 40 minute run, will be riding one of the below courses or something very similar, so would like to learn from them.  I expect my IM run will be in the 4:20 ish range.  Hopefully.... 

Last FTP test was 294, using the 20' and 5' testing protocol
 
On my last three long power-based (i.e., not group) rides, I got the following info
(1)
5:55
100 mi
6,000 elevation
AP 178
NP 205
VI 1.15
IF  .73
TSS   322
 
(2)
5:28
89 mi
7,000 elevation
AP 190
NP  225
VI  1.18
IF .84
TSS  361
 
(3)
4:58
89 mi
5,100 elevation
AP 193
NP  219
VI 1.13
IF  .79
TSS 309
 
The two outliers that are high are VI and TSS, and IF is on the top end or a bit high.   I guess I don't see how #1 has a low NP, but the TSS is so high.  Whereas #3 has a higher NP but lower TSS.   #2 seems to be just too hard across the board. 
 
Guess the question for the weekend's ride is what can I learn from these numbers in order to prevent a blowup on IM day? 


Edited by ChrisM 2013-07-09 1:17 PM
2013-07-09 1:31 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

Elite
7783
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PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Chris, what is generating those numbers and is your threshold set right in the software?  If I'm not mistaken, IF = NP / Threshold and the numbers you are getting for IF don't jive with that.   205 / 294 = .70 not .73

My only suggestion to avoid the blowup is to get that VI a lot lower.  

TSS on #1 is likely higher because the ride was a lot longer.



2013-07-09 1:57 PM
in reply to: axteraa

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by axteraa

Chris, what is generating those numbers and is your threshold set right in the software?  If I'm not mistaken, IF = NP / Threshold and the numbers you are getting for IF don't jive with that.   205 / 294 = .70 not .73

My only suggestion to avoid the blowup is to get that VI a lot lower.  

TSS on #1 is likely higher because the ride was a lot longer.

Recheck those numbers first. Then farther down here is a guide to help get a better picture of what to do with the numbers, namely the TSS.

2013-07-09 2:04 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Chris, I agree with Arend that those VI's look a little high if the goal of the ride was indeed to simulate an IM effort.  It also might be good to show what your VI is without the warmup.  I think it's perfectly fine to have a VI over 1.1 though for training where you're specifically doing long or short intervals with some recovery in between.  Certainly not how you will race, but good for improving fitness.

I would be interested to know what Shane would actually recommend for you on race day as far as power targets overall, for the flats, and the climbs.  I'm not familiar with the IMC course, but if the climbs are really 40+ minutes long then I would guess the power targets won't vary as much as you currently are in training.

I'll try to get some of the data from my last three 100 milers as far as AP, NP, and IF a bit later.  I'm pretty sure my IF's are well over 1.1.

2013-07-09 2:12 PM
in reply to: axteraa

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by axteraa

Chris, what is generating those numbers and is your threshold set right in the software?  If I'm not mistaken, IF = NP / Threshold and the numbers you are getting for IF don't jive with that.   205 / 294 = .70 not .73

My only suggestion to avoid the blowup is to get that VI a lot lower.  

TSS on #1 is likely higher because the ride was a lot longer.

Garmin Connect.  I [wrongly] assumed that if the FTP was set in the 910 device, then the FTP would be read by garminconnect, apparently not as that has it set at a default number of 400.  But even then, if it was reading 400 then IF is still off, as it would be .51 if it were going off of 400.

2013-07-09 2:21 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Default FTP of 400...programmers for garmin connect must be STers.
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