SWBKRUN fast, furious, and closed (Page 290)

Obviously, I am procrastinating at work today.  I tend to agree with you Andy about the gel happy people these days.  I generally don't carry water (unless it's super hot/humid) or food w/ me on runs less than 90min. Might grab a sip of water at a fountain along the way.  I also eat 200-300 cal within 15-20 min of running so I feel like I am fueled.

For me 2 hrs. is a bit too long.  On these runs I would have 100-200 cal. at the one hour mark or split tht up at the 45 and 90 min mark.  But everyone is different.  If you are trying to burn fat and go slow enough and feel good after your runs then maybe you are just fine w/ water on a 2 hr. run.

My RR is up. 

Oh...check out this: http://www.facebook.com/RnRLasVegas

Looks like so many people were about how a horrible race this was!  They REALLY should have capped it at 20k. That was last year's...now they doubled it, and over 20k were for the Half Marathon...and I would say at least 10k of those people were WALKERS or people who don't "race".

Poor decision on RnR part. I didn't realize the safety issues after the race inside the hotel. Can you imagine if there was a fire or something serious happened?

I wonder how NYC Marathon or Boston Marathon works this out....they have more people don't they???

Nutrition - on short runs, I normally just have water (it gets HOT and dry in Vegas, so I have to keep myself hydrated), so I'm used to it.

For me, I took in 1/2 gel packet every half hour (two gels in total), because I cannot eat before a run (except for a gel packet, that seems to be helping), due to feeling heavy/bloated when I start running. So I don't eat anything for hours before a run, my stomach is running on empty fuel, hence why I need to have gels on the course, even half hour into my run - only runs longer than an hour I would do this.

If it's a short run, I normally don't eat anything, and eat afterwards. 

So what does this teach you?  Find what works for YOU!!  If you feel great with not having gels, then so be it, but do be aware of electrolytes though.   For some place like Vegas where it's DRY but very hot, you can lose a LOT of electrolytes very quickly.  For a humid place, it would be a little different I would think.

I'm doing the "work avoidance" thing too.  Thanks for the advice Sam.  I really appreciate it. 

Andy,  on my last couple long runs I've done, (my pace is very similar to yours, but I'm a bit slower) I've actually been getting HUNGRY during the run.  It usually starts about an hour into the run.  I don't eat close to starting the run because I'm worried about having an upset tummy, so I do use some gels.  I usually have one about an hour in, and a second one at about 90 min.  I think if I could have found a pizza or a bag of potato chips on the trail, I could have eaten those too :-)

I'm looking forward to hearing what the others say . . .

It's the littlest clydsdale checking in!

I spent many years living off BF on long runs up to 26m done at an ez to reasonable pace.  I did this primarily because i had a lot of GI issues ingesting calories and I was really weight conscous.  During these efforts my HR was low so I was burning some glycogen, but able to rely on my fat stores as well.  At a low intensity this works.   You always need a little bit of glycogen in your system to help to get fat to burn (or so I have read in numerous locations).  If the intensity was too high, I would bonk and have to slow down because I blew through the glycogen stores too quickly. 

I changed the above approach last year while IM training under a different coach.  He is a big proponent of taking in enough calories not only for the effort but for recovery.    I will still do those 60-90 minute easy runs without calories, but for anything with intensity I am one of those gel heads (or equivalent).  For a 10K I will pop 1/2 gel with H20 20" before the start, during an intense bike workout like I had yesterday, I will have a squirt or two of gel between intervals.    I feel like they give me the stamina to continue to push hard.   For a half marathon, I am pretty religious about taking in 30g CHO per hour either through gel or carb pro which is based on my weight and what my stomach will tolerate.

I may have benefited from years of underfueling, but today I feel like I don't want to blow up in any workout for something I can control like nutrition.  I was trying to drop about 2lbs of my post IM weight a couple of months ago and my workouts suffered.  I stopped.  I figured I will carry that weight until the volume kicks in a little more.

Just my 2 cents.

Jayne - For trail races, I think less in terms of pace and more in terms of level of effort. Your pace on race day will depend on the terrain, the weather conditions, and traffic on the trails. If you have a pretty good idea of the effort level you can sustain for the distance, just aim for that.

Andy - I'm okay running up to 2 hours without calories, but I need water for anything over an hour or on hotter days. I can't tolerate gels when I run, so when I do need calories I carry jelly bellies, gummy bears, or pretzels. All are easy to digest, pretzels are harder to eat but have salt.

MUCH BETTER!!!   Nice play-by-play.  Great race, nice PR!!!   You ROCK!!

I'm a smaller guy so I'm sure I get by with less.  I also drink enough beer to maintain my fat reserves.    For my last two HMs, I drank a bottle of sports drink during the 30-40 minutes before the start and that was enough to get me through.   For two hour training runs I will stash a bottle of sports drink and drink about half at the hour mark and then finish off the rest when I'm done.    I only use the gels for racing.

consistency.  be consistent. if you want a gel, awesome.  just be consistent.  the size of our guts, butts, or boobs are irrelevant compared to the size of of our will to go when its early, go when its raining or go when its on the f'ing trainer.  and then get up and do it all over again.  day in. day out.  be consistent.

follow that and you'll learn what kind of chow your body wants and when. 

cold beer!

Here's what has been working for me, while training:
- like others have said, anything < 1 hour,  I just have water.
- planned training events > 1 hour, calories "in" for every 45 min; 1.5 hrs only gets one hit (gels, shot blocks, Chomps, Energy bites... I haven't had any GI issues from these products).  I also run with one 8oz bottle with NUUN that I sip on periodically.

Race days Half Marathons and up:
- Gel intake starts at 45 min in and every ~30 min afterward with water intake as I'm thirsty... I always hit the water stations for at least one cup.   I use the fuel belt on race day too with two bottles; 1 w/ water & 1 w/ NUUN -- just for something between aid stations.

To answer the real question:  Do what you feel you need.  If your not totally spent when you get done, maybe you don't need any added calories.  It's all personal preference and experimentation.

GORGEOUS pics!  My sister was a gymnast, so I have a bit of history - your daughter looks very talented!!

....and nice pictures!!

First lap video from my race this week.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6aqFkAD3ho

It is really important to stay AHEAD of your nutrition!  It's much harder to recover than it is to be proactive!  Now you just have to figure out where that is.

I sat and watched the whole thing.   Was that you wearing the camera?  Pretty cool (but not something I'm going to get myself into).

Yeah Doug posted something about a month or so ago where Amazon was selling them for 85 bucks so I picked one up.  It's mounted underneath my handlebars.  You can see the mud flying up from my tires at one point.

I tend to have nothing unless I'm running over 2 hours and then I make sure I have something like chocolate milk within a few minutes of finishing.

Once it starts to get really humid and warm I drink half a Gatorade just before my runs and the rest straight after followed by chocolate milk or iced coffee; I only use gels for races and then I try to get one in every 45 minutes.

Congrats on all the PR's racers!  Although it sounds like it was a crappy weekend for the races themselves (DJ and Sam). 

Tracy- great photos of your daughter. She does look incredibly talented.

Andy- I agree that you need to stay ahead of your nutrition.  I used to go without nutrition for my long runs and by mile 9-10 I would be toast.  Now for runs greater than 8 miles I make sure I eat an easily digestable snack about 45-  min 1 hr in advance and bring nutrition with me (approx 90-100 cals every 30 min).  Making the switch made a big difference in how I felt at the end.  As for what to eat, I'm not a huge fan of gels.  Somewhat bc of the cost but I also just prefer having something solid.  I frequently make PB and honey 1/2 sandwiches and cut it in thirds.  I'd eat 1 piece per 30 min.  Other things I've played around with are packets of honey and fig newtons. 

Tony- very cool view of the race.  

Just an update:  After my most recent long run (last Sat), I'm happy to say my recovery has been FAST!  I feel really good today!  It's amazing how the body really does adapt. Especially when combined with rest, stretching, chiropractic, massage, and good nutrition. 

P.S. I also saw the sunshine for a couple minutes today.  YEAH!!! 

Tony, cool video.

Woohoo!!!

Very nice.  Congrats!

Very nice, great to hear!

Cool -hook up your NC friends with some freebees!  JJ, that's awesome. Be sure to let us know who!