Drafting in the Olympics (Page 3)

There is much truth to the saying that you swim and bike for show, but you run for the dough.

Last night's race was very exciting, the ITU athletes proved why the are the best rounded athletes. Top 3 finishers splits on a technical bike course:

• Unger - S 18:13 min (1:06 min/100yds), B 59:01 (25.26mph), R 30:45 (4:58 min/mile) - Finish time 1:48:52
• Whitfiled - S 18:17 min (1:06 min/100yds), B 58:55 (25.31mph), R 30:48 (4:58 min/mile) - Finish time 1:48:58
• Docherty - S 18:23 min (1:07 min/100yds), B 58:51 (25.34mph), R 30:56 (4:59 min/mile) - Finish time 1:49:05

I am telling you, these guys should train more to become real triathletes so they can kick booty when they decide to do non-draft triathlons like 70.3 and IM. Wait a minute, I thought Crowie, Macca, McGlone, Jone, Carfree, Potts, Bonzzonne, Lessing, Smyers, etc use to do ITU racing, mmmmmmm

 Thought flew through my head this morning reviewing this and thinking through last night's race (watched it - jumping up and down at the end):

Like salary camps and modified drafting lottery pools a number of sports do all they can to promote a certain level of PARITY in their competition.  Taking American football - there are teams that are consistently strong (Patriots) and those who balance increasing depth in talent with the stars aligning for them (Giants).  While there are some teams that get dropped off the bat - the relative level of competition is healthy and fun to watch.  

I am not convinced for our sport that the parity provided by bike drafting at the highest level is BAD for the sport or not fair play (considering that is not the race the REST of us run).  As others have said - the front pack was there cuz they worked hard to be in a parity balance.  The pack let the Belgian and Lux rider off the front because they were not a threat to that dynamic.  

Perhaps the most telling part of last nights race was the Text Commentators remark that "That finish was great for the sport."  Instead of a strung out race - you had one of the best finishes I have seen on video ***edited because I described it and realized some of you may be waiting to watch it***

The end was inspiring, it was great for the sport, and it was all set up by the parity ensured by drafting at tri's highest level. 

It appears that a lot of people can tell you that it wasn't a 'glorified foot race'.  Had it been one, Gomez almost assuredly would be wearing a gold medal while Frodeno may not have even featured.

If you are a stronger cyclist you can win a race as long as you build enough lead to suit your specific strengths/capabilities. Rassmuss Henning won Hy Vee by doing that, he knew that in order to win over the fast runners he needed and specific time lead on the bike + his running ability it would be enough or close to for the win. He bet on it and did it.

No kidding.  They must have done some work on the bike to fry his legs up because he had no kick to the finish.

Zeebroek (one of the guys in the break) finished 13th.  About 11 or 12 spots higher than he would have if he ran the same split and biked with the pack.

Of course it comes down to a foot race.  The run is at the end.  But that's a naive way to understand what's happening during the event.  I might expect 'outsiders' to see it that way, but am surprised that so many triathletes appear to believe this is true.

FWIW...to those of you who are "against" drafting as per ITU rules...

I don't think you get it. The draft legal races are completely different, particularly with regard to strategy, than what we're used to under standard USAT rules. And to say that it gives the advantage to the runners is wrong.

Case in point:

2008 Olympic Trials at Tuscaloosa, Alabama. Andy Potts came out of the water and was on the bike well in front of the rest of the pack. He rode the first 2 laps of the bike course alone, but then made a "strategic" decision and hung back until the lead pack, which included Hunter Kemper and Matt Reed, caught up to him.  On the back half of the final lap, Matt Reed made a "strategic" decision to make a move and shot in front of everyone to come into T2 with a significant lead. He later said he was surprised that no one tried to stick with him. Turns out they made a "strategic" decision as well, but it cost them. In the end, Reed out ran both Kemper and Potts, who are traditionally considered the faster runners.

The person who won that day was the person who made the right "strategic' decisions. It had little to do with who was the best swimmer, or the best cyclist, or the best runner, and everything to do with who put together the best race.

That, my friends, it what it's all about. Go and watch one of these elite races. They are amazing!

I guess I have no issues with the drafting as long as it stays at that level.  I don't want to see it trickle down to local events for us mortals though.

One thing I noticed about the men's triathlon was the poor tactics on the bike by most of them.  Way off to the side by themselves or pushing the pace for too long or too big of gaps between wheels, etc, etc.  Some of these triathletes need to do some road racing to get this figured out.  In my opinion, there is a huge improvement that could be made in the cycling leg of the event even at the olympic level.  If you can come out of the water with 2-3 of your fellow countrymen you need to get organized and control the peloton.  Also, they should make the course much more technical so the strong and weak cyclists are seperated.  Having a flat time trial course that allows drafting will always just have huge packs with no breakaways where weak cyclists can just coast to T2.  Put in some hills of a few kilometers in length and then lets see them go.

Also, congrats to Simon Whitfield!

O.k., so let me start by saying I stopped reading after the first page.  And secondly, I like watching draft legal races.  That said, I like non-draft legal races better.  I think Triathlon is special because it is an individual sport, not a team competition.  Drafting removes the individualistic nature of triathlon (my opinion).   I like that each person is responsible for their own motor and you are not dragged along by the "Pack". 

As stated previously, I do like watching ITU events, but prefer USAT.

I don't believe you will see it trickle down to the lower levels, mainly due to the fact that most AG triathletes cannot handle their bikes well enough to be safe.  We have some draft legal races in Canada and you need your elite card and/or to be draft certified in order to race.  Also, in true draft legal races you are pulled if you get lapped and most AG triathletes would not be able to swim fast enough to stay clear of the pack.

Shane

But even if it did, you could always choose not to race those events.

amiine - 2008-08-19 10:30 AM

big john h - 2008-08-19 8:44 AM And nobody can tell me, from what I've read in several scathing reports, couldn't get the link to work myself, that last night's men's triathlon wasn't a glorified foot race in the end when it was all said and done.

I can

Last night's race was very exciting, the ITU athletes proved why the are the best rounded athletes. Top 3 finishers splits on a technical bike course:

• Unger - S 18:13 min (1:06 min/100yds), B 59:01 (25.26mph), R 30:45 (4:58 min/mile) - Finish time 1:48:52
• Whitfiled - S 18:17 min (1:06 min/100yds), B 58:55 (25.31mph), R 30:48 (4:58 min/mile) - Finish time 1:48:58
• Docherty - S 18:23 min (1:07 min/100yds), B 58:51 (25.34mph), R 30:56 (4:59 min/mile) - Finish time 1:49:05

I am telling you, these guys should train more to become real triathletes so they can kick booty when they decide to do non-draft triathlons like 70.3 and IM. Wait a minute, I thought Crowie, Macca, McGlone, Jone, Carfree, Potts, Bonzzonne, Lessing, Smyers, etc use to do ITU racing, mmmmmmm

Hmmmmm  looks like they all swam and biked within seconds of each other and they all came out of t2 together.....Hence the foot race comment.

I've read this entire thread and I can't find 1 post where someone is saying these guys aren't great triathletes.  Why do you continuously act like people are saying that?  Are you on the ITU payroll or something?

My bad, I thought none of the racers in the break finished higher than 20th. 

I don't think its naive at all.  Drafting takes away advantages of a stronger biker.  Breaks can be cover or minimized with the peleton.  With out the peleton don't you think those guys(on their own) could have built a bigger lead than the 55s?  

If Gomez had been in that break, do you think that break would have lasted more than 1k? 

It's OK if you don't like it.  But to minimize the swim & bike by calling it "glorified foot race" or even a "foot race for great swimmers and bikers" is overly simplistic.

Jorge is referring to his '07 victory.  Rasmus put about a minute into the field (along with a few others who faded) and held on.

Johnny -

Thanks for the correction.  Looks like Rasmus has worked on his running a little in the last year. 

Curious, why haven't you responded to my other questions?

With out the peloton don't you think those guys(on their own) could have built a bigger lead than the 55s?  

If Gomez had been in that break, do you think that break would have lasted more than 1k? 

Because I don't think they're particularly relevant to the issue.  But...

Without drafting, who knows how the bike leg would shake out?  Could be another rider in the pack would have set out on their own.  Remember, there were 3 guys in the initial break who worked together to build that 55 sec lead.  Perhaps it would shape up as many IM races do, with 1 or 2 attempting to 'truly' solo off the front while a 'pack' rides at 3 bike lengths and consevres some energy for the run.  I'm not arguing that eliminating drafting wouldn't change the finish order of the race.  It would play out differently than it does now (including a ridululous amount of officiating arguments).

Probably not.  But you don't think that the pace dictated by the bike tactics had some impact on Gomez' run?  Don't you think he would have been happier if the pace had been slower? 

Edit:  Oh, And Rasmus was no slouch on the run in '07 either.  There were still only a few guys who out-split him.  But the incentive ($$$) was strong to make sure he crossed the line first. 

I used gomez as an example.  Pick another runner, say Whitfield.  He wouldn't have been able to break either.  The point and relevancy is, the comments about THIS race being a "foot race".   Yours and other comments about the '07 Hy Vee or another other race doesn't have relevancy regarding this race.

agreed about the drafting officiating comments. 

I personally would like to see a TT start/format for these.  maybe about 2 mins seperation

Definitely; I just took issue with the thought that it is nothing more than a foot race.   I can understand that people don't like watching this style of racing or agree that it embodies the true spirit of the sport.  Personally I think it's more exciting than non-drafting to watch and they are also incredibly fun to participate in despite being very hard; in the two draft legal races I've done I've probably drafted for a grand total of 5km

If you haven't watched an ITU races before, I would encourage you to watch a few more; it grows on some people.  Also, the ITU (www.triathlon.org) has great live coverage of their events, including commentary.

Shane

I would prefer this be applied at non-drafting events; then an athlete would be solo for the entire race not just the bike leg.  There are a few races in this style but for a true individual race, I think the TT start would be great.

Shane

That's fine.  Shuffle the deck and see who comes out on top under different rules.  But do you allow drafting?  On the swim?  On the bike?  Do you 'seed' the athletes and give an advantage to the racers going later (and knowing the 'time to beat')?  Frankly, I think it works fine the way it is.

And if THIS race (i.e., the Olympics yesterday) was just a "foot race", why didn't the acknowleded faster runner (Gomez) win despite being in a position to do so?  I never made any comments about the Hy Vee (other than to clarify Jorge's for you) or any other race (though I'd make the same points about any of them).  They ALL come down to the run.  It's at the end!  Like the 4th quarter in football or basketball.  The game might be decided in the final minutes, but what happened before that isn't irrelevant even if they are tied on the scoreboard.