Graniteman - Racing and religion (Page 3)

TexasMPGal - 2010-07-13 10:49 AM

Until there are guns pointed at you, or your forced to confess a religion before you race, or some sort of other TRUE forcing, then there is no forcing of beliefs, just expressing of beliefs.  Americans, and western societies that have freedom of expression within religion as part of the core values (as it should be, it is key to liberty) truly have no idea how good we have it.  I've been to and seen some of the countries where true forcing of religious beliefs exist.  It amazes me how worked up people get over exposure to simple expressions of faith--expressions that do not instigate violence.  You don't have to believe it, you don't have to participate, you don't have to listen if you don't want to, it is not forcing, you can leave.  Regardless of whether you believe religiously or not, we should be grateful, as a nation, that our FREEDOM as Americans allows for this expression.  It is not forcing, there is always a choice to not participate.  We will ALWAYS hear things we don't care to hear. There is a lot of music lyrics that I despise and may actually offend me, that are played at a variety of events I attend--to include races...but I don't get pissed off at the race director, I just tune it out and go on with what I'm doing.  The RD isn't forcing me to listen to the music anymore than he is forcing you to participate in a prayer.
I also do not believe quietly walking away/backing out is disrespectful either--disrupting the prayer is wrong, but not participating or moving away without disrupting is your choice and you have the FREEDOM to exercise that choice.

Lurch - 2010-07-13 1:02 PM

I am stating that I feel I am not being shown respect and reacting to the others that have said I should stand there and show respect to others and their beliefs.  In my opinion the race director is not showing me respect by injecting his religion w/o any forewarning or giving time for others to excuse them self so I have no obligation to show respect to the director or his beliefs either.

Lurch - 2010-07-13 11:16 AM IMHO if an organizer/person/crowd shows me no respect by forcing their beliefs on to me I have no obligation to show their beliefs respect either.  I always walk away during a prayer out of principle.  If it is a moment of silence or they excuse the crowd and say those that want to stay for a prayer can do so then I will stay and show respect.  Other wise f*** those guys.

mrbbrad - 2010-07-13 11:09 AM

Ok, so you have to be shown respect first, then you'll show respect?

Lurch - 2010-07-13 10:11 AM

No, but disrespect is not followed with respect.

TexasMPGal - 2010-07-13 11:49 AM

Until there are guns pointed at you, or your forced to confess a religion before you race, or some sort of other TRUE forcing, then there is no forcing of beliefs, just expressing of beliefs.  Americans, and western societies that have freedom of expression within religion as part of the core values (as it should be, it is key to liberty) truly have no idea how good we have it.  I've been to and seen some of the countries where true forcing of religious beliefs exist.  It amazes me how worked up people get over exposure to simple expressions of faith--expressions that do not instigate violence.  You don't have to believe it, you don't have to participate, you don't have to listen if you don't want to, it is not forcing, you can leave.  Regardless of whether you believe religiously or not, we should be grateful, as a nation, that our FREEDOM as Americans allows for this expression.  It is not forcing, there is always a choice to not participate.  We will ALWAYS hear things we don't care to hear. There is a lot of music lyrics that I despise and may actually offend me, that are played at a variety of events I attend--to include races...but I don't get pissed off at the race director, I just tune it out and go on with what I'm doing.  The RD isn't forcing me to listen to the music anymore than he is forcing you to participate in a prayer.
I also do not believe quietly walking away/backing out is disrespectful either--disrupting the prayer is wrong, but not participating or moving away without disrupting is your choice and you have the FREEDOM to exercise that choice.

Rogillio - 2010-07-13 1:25 PM

The idea that anyone that expresses their religious belief in public is "forcing" anything is ridiculous.   Some people go though life with hatred and angry all the time becuase they think people are "forcing" them to be a certain way.  Really, they are not.  If one is condident in their beliefs, you cannot be forced to believe to otherwise.

Goosedog - 2010-07-13 12:39 PM

The "forcing beliefs" is cliché and overused in a variety of situations. 

It still causes me to ask what prompts a person in front of a crowd, of both believers and non-believers, to decide it is time for a group prayer?  Accepted custom, the leader's personal beliefs, the aforementioned safety factor of alerting an intervening all powerful God, the majority of the group wants it, etc.?  For me, this is just a matter of curiosity.

It has never been offensive to me, but it has always struck me as odd in these situations.  It would be like someone in the check out line at the grocery store leading everyone else in line in prayer.  Not offensive, but odd.

Rogillio - 2010-07-13 2:08 PM 

I guess I just don't care enought about what other people are doing or saying. 

Rogillio - 2010-07-13 11:08 AM
I think it is just human nature.  I sometimes suggest to my staff they should come to the gym with me and work out.  In the gym I sometimes talk to the runners and suggest they might be interested in a local sprint triathlon.  When someone is passionate about something, it is part and pacel to their life and they want to share.  Do people get offended when I suggest they come to the gym with me?  I  dunno.  Maybe the really fat one do?! 

The bottom line is, some people go out of their way to be offended.  The older I get the harder it is to offend me.  I'm not sure why.  I guess I just don't care enought about what other people are doing or saying.  I sometimes still get offended...but when I think about it and look at the big picture, I get over it.

So that is my recommendation, GET OVER IT!

:-)


~Mike

tkd.teacher - 2010-07-13 1:24 PM

Now that we have completely derailed into personal belief exploration, and before the personal attacks ensue, can this be moved to the COJ?

John

Goosedog - 2010-07-13 12:41 PM

Now, if this is really the concern, couldn't just one person take care of this silently?

Pector55 - 2010-07-13 2:13 PM I think we are doing well when this is they type of thing people have to get upset about.

Personally, I feel as though Sham Wow commercials push themselves on me more than folks bowing their head in prayer. 

Pector55 - 2010-07-13 4:13 PM I think we are doing well when this is they type of thing people have to get upset about.

Personally, I feel as though Sham Wow commercials push themselves on me more than folks bowing their head in prayer. 

Goosedog - 2010-07-13 12:41 PM

Now, if this is really the concern, couldn't just one person take care of this silently?

Tripolar - 2010-07-13 2:46 PM At any public event, I always try to be respectful to those around me, so I would definitely have stayed and bowed my head.  Of course, the fact that I was raised Lutheran makes it a bit easier to be respectful during a Christian prayer, but I would do the same if the prayer/ritual had been Hindu or Buddhist, or whatever.  (Satanic would be pushing it...)


But this thread makes me think I should create a race and dedicate it to the Flying Spaghetti Monster!

RAmen!

ChineseDemocracy - 2010-07-13 2:39 PM

Thanks for the laugh tripolar!  Oh my God that had me cracking up. 
I can just picture the race director handing the mic over to a dude garbed up like the Emperor from the Star Wars trilogy..."Welcome to HellMan 2010!!!!" 
Hell's Bells and Highway to Hell would be blaring from the raceday speakers...
...we may be onto something here! 

 

lodewey - 2010-07-13 6:56 AM  And I firmly believe that just because we cannot yet explain everything in nature, that does not mean there must be a supernatural explanation. We just haven't found the explanation yet. 

Swanny - 2010-07-13 7:49 PM

The night before, I sacrifice a nice KFC chicken, yummy!