Ladies...I've got a beef with some of you... (Page 3)

We have talked about this and I do agree on the whole. I just posted the pic for this thead to be funny

Should it matter?

I went there as well and talked to them.  Some were really nice, some I didn't like.  It's a JOB.  Not sure why the atire should matter.

My wife has a showgirl outfit for the Matt Goss show at Ceasars.  And a burlesque out fit for the same show.  But she is all natural...  So is ok to be with since she is natural or bad to be with because of the skimpy outfits?  But she does use a pushup bra and fake lashes and hair extensions for the show...  Damn.  Fake person I guess.

I think they look great. I wear them for special occasions or when I am dressing up and when I have them on, I often get compliments on looking good so I say, do it.

I don't recall making any judgements about good or bad maybe you have me confused with someone else. My point is you get what you ask for and this is the sort of stuff men have asked for over and over and over so why do you blame women for giving you what you want. whether those things are good or bad is a totally different discussion.

What exactly have I asked for?

I think what Kate's referring to is that as a society (not any of YOU specifically), men have made it crystal clear that they prefer women to be primped up, beautiful, and flawless at any given moment. Since none of us are perfectly flawless, we wear makeup, get tans, apply fake eyelashes to appear more attractive, more like what men have communicated they want a woman to look like - what they are attracted to.

Even on this very forum, there have been comments in general about women who, say, go grocery shopping without bothering to put on makeup or do their hair, and how awful they look -- or those who wear sweat pants to the gym (the horror) and how unattractive those things are. Can't have it both ways, fellas.

Exactly!!! Thank You Lisa, well put.  Now I know why you are in communications and they don't let me out of my lab much.

I think we are arguing different sides of the same coin?

In general, and this could be a stretch, I would guess attractive > unattractive.  For men AND women.

But I have also been saying that it was wrong to call anyone out for lashes or boobs or tans or skimpy outfits...  Those things don't make a fake or bad person - and I don't have any issue or get angry with anyone for what they want to do for their looks.  I just know what I find attractive or not.

this proves my point about men not knowing what a "natural face" consists of.  i would almost guarantee that girls that make their money off of looking hot and being flirty are wearing makeup, tan, lashes, etc.

What my pic was making fun of yes there are men who think that way but they normally turn up being the jerks. When you find the person you can be yourself around whatever that may be that is when you found the right person and that is what I think we are talking about.

I am a little bias on the subject since I live in Orange County and next to LA where in my mind the personalities I have met have molded my thinking of "done up" and how that translates to their personalities. Again that is for the people I have met around here and not for the whole of all woman kind.

Kido, perhaps you have the majority of this thread mistaken with another thread?  Who said a person wearing fake eyelashes is fake or shallow?  I thought the tone was relatively benign...especially since I lumped my dislike of fake eyelashes in with my abhorrence of decorative pillows and non-absorbent towels in the original post.  I figured, "Why use the sarc font" when I'm recommending the flogging of eyelash extension manufacturers...what was I thinking?

Please read the op again with an open mind.

btw Lisa, shame on those men ranting about no makeup or hair being done at the grocery store...my only beef in that arena is with people wearing pajamas to the store...it's ridiculous for men AND women in my opinion.  That said, ladies should feel free to dress skimpily...which leads to the next question...skimpy underwear at the grocery store?  I'll have to think about that one.  

p.s. guys have a problem with sweat pants on women at the gym?  Not this man!  Sweats are hot. 

Some do, some don't. Some will just wear a base while others look overdone. They all are different but I tend to like the personalities of the girls at this one place who are not overdone. Again, thats just me not all men.

But this thread started with a complaint women are doing too much and DON'T need them to be flawless or doing things that make them feel attractive (which again, I disagree with the judgement.  People can do what they want).  So that seem contrary to the your statement.

Maybe what irks me most is the generalizations.  Not all men, not all women, not all poeple with fake lashes/boobs/tans are the same.

So when I see "you", whether it's me specifically or the "you" as in ALL men.  Followed by "men" (which I am one, the last I checked), followed by some rash generalization, it's hard not to take it personally.

Since you suggested it...

In the subject you say you got a beef...  Which in my understanding, you take issue or angered. 

I also bolded all the other wonderful things you have said.

Just saying (and said it several times before)  like what you want, don't like what you want.  But when you call people out, you will offend them.  My wife wears them and her friends.  Some time for work, some not, and the statement offended me - I tend to be protective of my wife.  So be prepared for the fallout if you want to make your personal likes and dislikes public and offend a certain group of people.

THAT is a good question...

What does an open mind mean to you?  Read it and NOT be offended and agree with your opinion?  Or the fact I find it offensive you think my wife is less artractive or looks rediculous with fake lashes, makes me close minded?

Listen Kido, I am sorry you were offended...it was meant to be light-hearted.  I have a problem with ridiculous looking fake eyelashes.  Does it sound like I called all fake eyelashes bad?  Did I ever make a disparaging remark about the actual women who wear them?  No.  

In my opinion, I call it like I see it.  As I said, perfectly attractive women make themselves look less attractive by wearing ridiculously long eyelashes.  It's quite similar to the thread about the lady getting cosmetically altered to have a chest she can barely take 2 steps with.  Am I that out-of-bounds to say that an otherwise attractive lady has done something to herself unnecessarily under the assumption it might make her more attractive...when it actually does the reverse in my opinion??

Kido, that was not an attack on your wife, and if you think it was, you're sadly mistaken.  As Lisa showed, fake eyelashes can look normal...when they start looking like tarantulas, yeah, they're ridiculous in every day life.  

Now I'm just waiting for a post from an offended eyelash manufacturer, decorative pillow maker, and non-absorbent "fluffy" towel seller.

The thing is, men don't notice any of the little details, women do.  Women will look at each other and pick apart their fake eyelashes, nail extensions, shoes, makeup, and (to tie in another recent COJ thread) engagement rings.  Guys just look at the cleavage.  The only time I notice lashes or makeup is when it's done wrong.

Rash generalization!

As I think I said in another thread, my grandmother used to say: "If a guy remembers what color your eyes are after a first date, then your boobs aren't big enough."   

Yep and girls learn this one young.  The funny thing is most girls I know who were well endowed teenagers were more embarrassed and self conscious about it than anything else.  That often had to do with how grown men responded to them.

Yep, I was one of those well endowed by the age of 13, and was very self conscious by it.  Not like young girls don't have enough going on to deal with.  

I agree, it is a personal choice on whether you wear more, less, or no makeup at all.  

Wasn't this essentially the point of the OP?

Like I said, it doesn't matter to me what you like or dislike.  Just be prepared for the fallout if you want to make it public.  Someone can make racial/religioius/sexist jokes and just by saying it was meant to be "light hearted" - does not make it less offensive to the people it mocks.

I guess I don't understand how saying that someone looks rediculous, less attractive, or it's a crime against humanity (yes, even as a light hearted joke) is not disparaging?  Yeah, I guess you didn't say that fake eyelashes were bad in those EXACT words.  But again, how does one interpret "rediculous, unattractive, crime against huminty, punishment to the makers of them"?  I could be VERY mistaken, but that does not sound like something you would say about something good or a ringing endorsement. 

Of course you didn't specify my wife by name - but when you mock a group, if you are in that group, you can still take it personally.  If someone said something about triathletes, something they did is rediculous or a crime.  You think maybe SOMEONE in that group my get offended even if you don't call them out by name?  What about a race/relligion/sex?  I'm not saying this is all equal...  Not by a long shot.  Just know that at any level, when you mock someone, those words impact even if it's light hearted.  Sorry, if someone said something bad about tall people, even if they don't say my name, doens't mean I can't get offended.

What's aggrivating, is the arguement that I'm not open minded or the defense you never said something bad, offensive, or called anyone out specifally.  It's ok to not like them, and even offend people by saying that.  I'm completely cool with offending people.  Some of the best humor is offensive.  I would rather hear someone say "yeah, I know I offended someone with that, but that's how I feel" - rather than turn it on ME that me being offended is close minded or you never said anything bad or offensive.  Of course you did, or people woulnd't have gotten offended - don't try to say the people offended are wrong for feeling that way.  Just offend and take ownership of it.  I would rather just have someone mock me, then try to convince me I am wrong to be offended by it when they do.

Yes, yes it was.