Zone 2 sucks (Page 3)

What kind of total volume do you think is an adequate range if you're doing 80% of your total volume in zone 2?

How does your volume of S/B impact run volume in the 80% Zone 2 approach?

Take your run (or bike or both) volume for the last 2 months of your last training cycle recently and add 20% to it as a target. Then work up to that gradually over 6-8 weeks. And then don't drop down for at least another month. YOu want to retrain your body to get used to the bigger training volume. Doesn't matter if that means you're at 12mpw of running or 42 mpw running - the goal is to get a higher sustained volume stimulus than your previous efforts.

Also note that it's SUSTAINED. Doing it for 1-2 weeks is easy. Doing it for 3-4 is more challenging, both mentally and physically. Do it for 6+ weeks - now we're talking real race results improvement. It's all about the long haul - you get no bonus point for doing 2x your training volume 1 week then dropping back to nearly nothing the next week because you overdid it.

Hmmm.  OK.  That's interesting.  I had been at 40-50 mpw for a six months before an "overreaching" period and very low iron sidelined me for a few weeks.  I'll build back up with the Z2 philosophy and see how it goes.  I'm definitely intrigued, and now I have first-hand reports of the results.  I'm in.

Thanks for your detailed responses.

Saw the comment about runners and fish so thought, as an amphibian (strong runner and swimmer, crap biker) that I'd attempt an explanation. First, people who are setting run PB's off of primarily Zone 2 training are probably doing so because they're staying healthy (whereas they may have been frequently injured and unable to train consistently before), building their aerobic endurance, efficiency, and strength, and often (for beginners) losing weight as well. At some point diminishing returns come into play and they will probably need to up the intensity to continue improving.

But running is a high-impact activity and every athlete needs to find a balance between the intensity needed to improve and the injury risk that increasing intensity brings. For many older athletes or those with a history of injury, the balance may well be towards mainly Zone 2 with a small amount of work at higher zones. For a younger, elite athlete, there will obviously be more work in the higher zones, esp. during the competitive season after a period of base building.

Swimming, however, is low-impact and assuming no serious form issues, you can work hard nearly every day with low injury risk. Beginners WILL see some gains from Z2 training due to improved aerobic conditioning and strength, especially if they focus on developing efficient form. But once that's established, one makes faster progress with higher intensity training, and this carries a relatively low injury risk at the amount most triathletes swim.

This all makes a lot of sense.  Thanks for your response.

And 21mph--I think I'm remembering that correctly from your bike post--especially on your bike with no aero helmet, no fancy-pants wheels--is not a crap biker.  Nice try;)  Sounds to me like you're pretty strong in all 3.  Awesome.

Since many would consider 25-30 miles a lot of running, what could be considered a deep background? I've seen 60-80/week for several years consistently, or collegiate level running put out before.

Just like people want to believe there's a magic pill for weight loss instead of just cutting back...really the same applies to Zone 2 work.  It sucks- you feel slow for awhile, but you will start to see progress.  I'm training for my first IM so I dedicated myself to the whole HR idea and was lucky to be running 10:15/per mile the first month or so.  Now...I can run 2 hours around 9:35-9:40 per mile while staying in a very low zone 2 - sometimes I need to work harder just to get to zone 2.  

I just did my first 10k in about 3 years....previous pace 9:16/per mile (and this was late August)....Sundays pace 8:16/per mile - this was after a hillacious 56 mile ride Saturday and 20 min run.  My HR averaged a high Zone 3.

Enjoy the Zone 2 work...

Dang people... this has me convinced!  Thanks for sharing your success stories.  Somehow in all my time on BT I've never read a thread about how great Zone 2 training is (I'm sure there were some and I just didn't read them).

If I would run 5-6 days a week in Z2 but bike in whatever zone I need to to make it up hills or keep with my friends, would I still reap success in my running?  Or would I be better off trying to do Z2 bike rides?

hum, the magic pill for weight loss is get the hell out of the kitchen.  Weight loss starts with diet, anything lost from exercise is just a bonus and not sustainable.  And there is lots of evidence that counters your recommendation.  But of course there is lots that support it.  So at best it is inconclusive.  Unlike the tried and true eating less then you burn and eating quality foods

Hey gang,

 I truly appreciate all comments and encouragement about Z2.  I'm a believer now.  And whats more, after being a BT member for a few years, I finally have a thread that has hit 4 pages!!!  

Aaaaaah, to be young again.

However my Bike LT has had significant change.  My 1st LT was when I was still a relative bike beginner was 166, following a 1.5 years of HIM training was 173.  Even though I haven't retested on the bike in quite a while I know that once I'm in the low 170's I'm at my threshold.

I was think about this thread during my entire run today as I struggled, and I mean STRUGGLED, to keep it in Zone 2.  It felt terrible.  I felt like I never hit "my stride" and legs felt heavy throughout.

I am coming off a two month period of almost no running; I had "overreached" at the end of February and had low iron, so I've been doing a swim focus and almost no biking or running. 

I just did a 5K on Sunday and averaged 7:05mpm.  This is off of my "normal" 5K times by ~ 30sec/mile.  Today I did 7 miles in Z2 and averaged--brace yourself now--10min miles!  Really, is there that big a difference?

I had also done a swim at lunch (3K), so I'm guessing that factors into the day's Z2 speed, but ugh.  It sure felt yucky.

I had been joking about a Z2 support group before, but I really may start one.