"Train Smart Race Fast" 3 months challenge (Page 3)

HI everyone! Sorry for the late check-in regarding week 1. I am away from my computer Sat-Tues this month.

Motivation wise, I'm staying pretty consistent, and I am following a 30-wk program leading me up to Lake Placid. As of the first week of the year, I would have been been into the 2nd week of the program, which is where I jumped into it.

I'm currently evaluating the first 10 days of the program. It feels right, so I will be going along with the planned hours ahead for the next week.

My biggest "thing" was getting the field tests done and making sense out of the HR training and all the numbers.

I have to admit that I was dreading each test, for the run and bike. For more than a year now, I've been training "very comfortably" to "comfortably challenged" since my A race last year was my 1st attempt at finishing an IM, so getting a max HR out of me required some serious digging in.

I did the run field test first. Got my numbers out of it, and plugged them into 2 different formulas. One using the avg HR of the last 20 min of the test to get your Lactate Threshold, and then the one recommended by my training plan, which is based on my max HR.

There was also a predicted HR range that my training program used for the bike, which was basically 5% less than one's running numbers. That DID NOT APPLY to me. I tried riding in those numbers and boy did I have to work hard to stay in the predicted prescribed zone 2. They were TOO HIGH for me, so I had to go and do yet ANOTHER DREADED field test, but I survived.

DID YOU HEAR THAT SUNNY??? I SURVIVED! GO AND DO YOURS!!

It looks like I may just go ahead and train using Zones 1 - 4 based on max HR (since that's what my training plan uses), as opposed to using my Lactate Threshold and the zones 1 - 5c method.....UNLESS there might be a better reason for using one over the other.

(Keeping in mind that the bulk of my training for IM is in zone 2 which is a VERY WIDE range: 75-85% of max HR (as opposed to a range of 5% for zones 3 and 4), it is quite easy to maintain those heart rates even without having to watch the monitor while training and going by feel.)

SO MY QUESTION OF THE DAY IS: Opinions on using one "chart" over another, Jorge?

Just an addition to my last post regarding heart rates and different charts/methods:

These are numbers I got from my (pathetic) bike test: My LT would have calculated to be 160, and my max HR would be 165.

Lactate Threshold Method:

Lots of fun numbers, but how best to apply them? 

Are there any programs that you know of that would integrate and implement such tight tolerances in the LT chart? All I've really seen that uses that much zoning is in Friel/Byrn's Going Long in the Late Base and Build Period muscular endurance Sessions, and that's for the BIKE.

Friel/Byrn speaks to running in terms of doing all runs in what they call "zones 1 and 2". By looking at the two charts, zones 1-2 vary by only 3-4 bpm.

Ugh, I think I may have just answered my own question (Stay in the middle of zone 2 and I'm right "in there" regardless of which chart you are using), then when I am in the later stages of training in my late base/build and doing ME bike sessions, consider using the "big" chart.

May – I would use the 1^st graph just because I believe that focusing your training on your Functional Threshold (a.k.a. as LT) is a better way to improve your performance. As you noticed both graphs aren’t that different and mainly you’ll based ‘most’ of your training on zones 1-4 (in particular since you are training for IMLP) and by using those numbers you can re-rest more often to adjust your zones and get better training.

Heh, you got me girl (May/TypeAGP)...I've not done my LT-Run test yet.   I my log I've noted a few limiters that kept me from it last week ('track knee') and the week before (snotty nose/sore throat), but I'm healthy again (YAY!) and have no more excuses. 

I need/want to run the LT run test this weekend.  And given the 1/2-mini test I tried during my stuffy head/cold week, I bet my numbers will be similar to yours.  Time to field test it and find out!!

On the plus side, I went to the pool last night for my first swim of 2007.

It went fine but I do feel out of practice.  I think I'll buy an evening swim pass for $65 to cover 2 months of $3/use fees.  Let's see...that'll pay for itself in 3x/wk swimming (2.7 if you're precise).  What an incentive to get me back in the water more often!

You got it!  That Zone 2 from either chart will help, but I like the Zone a/b in the Lactacte chart because they'll show how high (or not) to go while interval training for power as the season progresses. 

Then again, assuming your LT-HR shifts up before you get to that stage of training, you'll just have to re-take the test anyway.  For now most everything should be in Zone 2 which seems really low/easy, but that's the way we build BASE I suppose...

Glad we're discussing all this here -- nice to see the thinking and the doing combined!

Glad you're back healthy Sunny! I really had no excuses to not do mine other than I really didn't enjoy the pain. And I really didn't want to know the truth behind my biking - my quads were killing me, but I did feel like I could get a little more out of my lungs and heart, the legs were just not having any of it!

Anyways Best of Mojo and Health so you get out and find out your numbers this weekend. I'm leaving tomorrow afternoon for a few days so I'll check in with you guys when I return!

Looks like where I'm headed there will be sleet, so that training day will be on the treadmill staring at a wall in a stuffy room. For an HOUR. Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.

Saturday, so my 2nd week has ended and other than missing the pool I could't be happier:

Run - 5x (1 shorty as part of a BRICK), Bike - 1x, Spin - 1x, Sw - 1x (a shorty), Core 2x

lost 3 lbs and did my first Z2 run and felt great!

I'll be lokking on Sunday to see everyone else!

Hi all,

I pushed myself through the LT Run Test today -- ouch, I'm not used to that kind of pace push, and my tummy cramped up not once but twice during the wheezing I was doing.  Anyway I survived 18 of the 20 mins and had an avg HR of 170.  Amazing what that faster 1 min/mile over my usual pace does to my HR and breathing!  I was so uncomfortable.  I am really grateful that Matthew was running with me to pace me.  Keeping him just a few steps ahead really helped a lot, and I told him so with much gratitude.

Workouts for this week are based on a mix of availability, some pre-planned training sessions, and a sincere desire to get in a third day of swimming. 

Workouts planned in minutes:

Sunday – yoga 30, LT test run 30, lifting chest/back 15

Monday – stretching 15 and core/abs 15, MIT track practice 60

Tuesday – lifting 45, rowing 15

Wednesday – spinning 60 (or 105), swim 40

Thursday – core/abs 15, jog 15, swim 45

Friday – run 45, lifting 30

Saturday – swim 60 and run if additional time is available

Sunday - rest!

I had a local coach and friend do some videotaping above and below water today.  Very helpful!  I saw some deep arm dragging and a slight imbalance in my L/R side breathing and pulling.  So as I work on getting more glide out of my stroke, more time in the water should help.  Catchup drills and quicker arm turnover is needed. 

How's everyone else?  What's on tap for this week?

Cheers, -Sunny

Did my bike LT test the other day.  Pulled a Higher HR, at a higher resistance then last time and at for the final 20 minutes my hr stayed constant within +/-2bpm.

Was supposed to ride again today, but decided the legs need a rest day.  Going to try and swim tomorrow, if the pool isn't mysteriously closed again.  Goal is 3 times this week, shooting for 5.  I also plan on starting running again and hitting the weights 2x.

Hello everyone,

I still haven't done the test! I don't have a heart rate monitor yet. I think a friend of mine who's off to do the Lankawi IM is going to lend me hers I did do a timed 1.5K swim over the weekend and swam it in about 32mins. I'm pretty happy with that time (considering I counted laps correctly!). I'd like to swim my 100m split at about 1min40 so I still have plenty of training to do. Running and biking still feels like I'm in the "getting in shape" stage. Perhaps it's the indoor training that's making me feel really unmotivated on the bike/run...hopefully I'll get outside soon. 

Good job everyone getting their LT tests done, and for those who haven't, like 2 Degrees N, I'm sure we'll see them at next check-in!

I've been staying on schedule with my workouts this past week even with all the traveling, so that makes me really happy (although my workouts have been short & sweet!) I also haven't had to really alter my training plan to accommodate work this month, and I have been very faithful to my Heart Rate training ON THE BIKE AND RUN only.

The training plan I'm following doesn't prescribe Heart Rate Zones for my swimming or even T-Paces. I've returned to Masters swimming after about a 1-yr+ hiatus, and I'm positive I am pushing myself way up into like my swim Zone 5 (if I ever established what they were). I'm planning on deviating from my training plan as it is written now to incorporate and replace current swims with those that base it's workout efforts on T-Pace.

Which is yet ANOTHER field test

QUESTION FOR JORGE/ANYONE ELSE WHO WANTS TO CHIME IN:
What is your take on Master's swimming as it pushes your HR way up (guessing that based on a high RPE); is it detrimental to the other z2 HR training that I'm doing on the bike/run?

I know that there are schools of thought and some coaches that say swim training is different than bike/run training. You don't have to do loooong sets (that would be akin to the weekly long bike and long run). I think I read somewhere too that the philosophy of HR training for swimming (in your SWIM HR ranges) doesn't apply like it does to the bike and run.

Well, this week is my RECOVERY week *YAY* although since the volume is still relatively low, the cutback is only :15 on the long bike/run, so it should feel the same.

This last week was a good week for running and swimming

Ran 6X this week (75m, 40m, 25m, 40m, 50m, 35m, 50m, rest day)
Swam 4x this week (0, 25m, 25m, 20m, 0, 25m, rest day)

The runs were in the Easy and Marathon pace based on the VDOT calculator. I felt good with this running time and frequency.

This week is shortened because of my traveling, so what I propose for my next week is actually starting 21st Jan.  I plan to run every day between 30 and 50m using a VDOT breakdown. I will probably add a small bit of Threshold based running.

QUESTION FOR JORGE/ANYONE ELSE WHO WANTS TO CHIME IN:
What is your take on Master's swimming as it pushes your HR way up (guessing that based on a high RPE); is it detrimental to the other z2 HR training that I'm doing on the bike/run?

>>> Not really. Swimming isn’t as taxing on your muscles as bike and of course running. You do get great doses of aerobic and/or anaerobic at every session and you can get away by pushing a bit harder on a regular basis. HOWEVER, you have to balance you training in a way that you aren’t flogging yourself at every swim session; otherwise you’ll risk building up excess fatigue. I don’t use HR training for swimming just for the simple fact that it is very uncomfortable to swim with one although you can get an aprox by taking your pulse after each set. I like training by pace because it gives me something I am more familiar with and goals to shoot for. I set my training paces by swimming a 1500 Yds/mts time trial as hard as I can or swim for 30 min.

Test - warm up: swim easy for 300-600 Yd/mts, 4x50 steady (10-15” rest), 4x50 as 25 easy/25 hard (10-15” rest) then swim as hard as you can for 1500 yds/mts (1000 for beginners), 200-300 easy as cool down. *** If you can’t swim that long you ‘could’ adjust the test by doing 3x500 with (10-15” rest)

Calculate T pace - Take the TT time and divide it by the distance to get your avg per 100 and mark it as your my T-pace and get your swim zones: Easy = T+10 sec, Steady = T + 5 sec, Tempo =  T pace, Hard = T + 2/3 sec, Very Hard T + 5 sec.   i.e. Jorge swim a 1500 Yds on 20:21 min (best last year) hence T pace = 1:21 and zones as follow:

Anyway, I personally like master swim classes because they usually push you a bit harder than usual (you swim, longer and/or faster) they make you do swim drills every sessions (warm up and cool down), they make you swim at different speeds (paces), they vary the intensity from session to session and you get ‘some’ feedback on your swim. If a master class don’t have these elements then it isn’t that good. Master’s are also great for those training for HIM/IM because usually you swim 3000+ Yds a session.  

Well, there we have it!!

I think JORGE has inadvertantly given us the T-Pacing Test for the challenge!

Thanks for your take on the Master's swimming, Jorge! And as usual like every other sport you do, you are F-A-S-T!!

Yeah, my master's isn't BIG on drilling, so when we do kick sets, I'm usually doing some sort of drill in place of the kicking. I was even surprised that our group, even though we do call it "Masters", was recognized by the USMS!!! LOL 

* I AM NOT A NUTRITIONIST  * I've gathered this info from different books and other sources. I would recommend consulting with a professional to adjust your specific diet to fit your specific needs

Some of you asked about nutrition regarding training and here is some info I’ve gathered over the past year and that I use to design my training plan around.
I usually break down my training on periods (base phase, build phase, racing phase and transition phases) and for each one I try to adjust my diet in order to complement my training the best. Through the base phase 9the one we are on right now) the bulk of my training is done at lower intensities in order to set the foundation for the build and racing phases and as the weeks progresses I’ll increase my training volume. Through these weeks I focus on working on strength, technique and to methodically develop my endurance. I focus on this because my goal is to adapt my body for the demands of hard training and prepare it to be able to absorb greater workloads and intensities as I move forward. IOW the better I prepare my body through the base phase the more I’ll be able to push it later and ultimately increase my fitness level = race faster.

Also the base phase is a great time to shed extra pounds we earned through the transition phase or to loose that weight we have always wanted. As I mentioned the bulk of the sessions will be done at lower intensities (Z1, Z2 and some Z3 for those familiar with Friel’s HR zones or E, M and T pace for those using Daniel’s approach) and the duration of the sessions will vary anyway between 30 min and up to 180 min (maybe longer for those training fro IM) For this type of sessions the body relies primarily on a combination carbohydrates and fat as fuel hence it is important to eat right in order to perform better at every session.

From sources such as Chris Carmicheal “Eat right” book and “sports nutrition for endurance athletes” in general through the base phase an athlete training up to 12 hrs a week should consume 2.5 to 3.5 grams of carbs per pound of body weight. (Up to 4.0 grams for those training longer). For protein an athlete should consume around 0.5 to 0.6 grams per pound of body weight and maybe up to 0.7 for those with a regular strength program. Finally for fat intake an athlete should consume around 0.4 to 0.6 of fat per pound of body weight or around 20-22% of total calorie intake. And for those athletes seeking to shave some pounds of body fat they this is the ideal phase. Instead of trying to reduce vital fuel like carbs an athlete can just re-arrange the optimum calorie intake, stay on the low end of each range in particular fat, and make healthy choices. (Eat vegetables, fruits, whole grains, lean meat and avoid processed food, fast food, fried food hydrogenated oils and try to avoid HFCS. Also if you don’t have regular strength program consume the number of the low end for protein and on off days adjust your calorie needs and eat less.

Please avoid the mistake of trying to eat a lot less of what your body need to fuel each workout AND attempting to lose weight in later phases because that might result on poor training results or even worse.
Other important info:

If you trained less than 8 hrs stay on the low end of the ranges i.e. consume around 2.5 gr of carbs, 0.5 gr of protein, 0.4 – 0.45 gr of fat
If you train 8 to 12 hrs a week stay in the middle of the ranges i.e. consume around 3.0 gr of carbs, 0.55 gr of protein, 0.45 – 0.5 gr of fat
If you train over 12 hrs a week stay in the high end of the ranges i.e. consume around 3.5 gr of carbs, 0.6 gr of protein, 0.55 – 0.6 gr of fat
1 gr of carbs = 4 calories
1 gr of protein = 4 calories
1 gr of fat = 9 calories
The more you hours a train week, the more you should eat to fuel each session. Longer training sessions will require more fuel i.e. a Saturday 2 hr ride follow by a 30 min brick run will require more fule than a regular day with a 30 min recovery run, so keep that in mind to adjust your daily nutritional needs!

How to determine your optimum calorie intake base on your weight and physical activity:
i.e. A 150 pound athlete trying to lose weight and training 6 hrs a week will need 2.5 gr of carbs, 0.5 gr of protein and 0.4 to 0.45 gr from fat. >>> 375 gr of carbs, 75 gr of protein and 60 to 67 gr of fat for total calories of 2340

One more thing, I believe female athletes ‘might’ need to adjust this numbers a bit to fit their specific needs unfortunately as I mentioned before I have no education background on nutrition so if anyone has some input regarding please let me know.
As I mentioned before this thread is my attempt to help athletes to train as smart as possible in order to race fast

My progress against the challenge this week has some setbacks due to travelling to Europe. I couldn't swim all week and 3 of the days I couldn't run.

Run: The four days I ran broke down like so, 50m, 60m, 30m, 30m.
I feel like running 6x a week is no problem at the 30m mark. I think I'll shoot for a minimum of 30m a day and try at least 2 days around 60m.

Swim: I'm going to get back into the pool next week. I'm shooting for 4x a week at 25m.

Bike: I'll shoot for 1x a week for 30m. This isn't my current focus area and time starts to become a constraint.

Jorge, I've started putting in about 1K (5 to 6m) at Threshold into some of my runs. Is this ok? and how or should I put intervals in my running?

Pretty happy w/ week 3 except I missed the pool. Resigned to the fact that I won't get there until February. Life Happens!

Run - 3X, Bike -1 , Spin 2X, Core 3x (a personal record)