General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Increasing power threshold over the winter Rss Feed  
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2007-12-13 10:58 AM
in reply to: #1097826

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Champion
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Atlanta, Ga
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter

Just to show how ignorant of power I am.  What does FTP stand for?  I understand it's purpose, but the acronym (sp) is killing me.

Thanks.



2007-12-13 11:39 AM
in reply to: #1099860

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
Marvarnett - 2007-12-13 11:58 AM

Just to show how ignorant of power I am. What does FTP stand for? I understand it's purpose, but the acronym (sp) is killing me.

Thanks.

Functional Threshold Power.... 

2007-12-13 11:41 AM
in reply to: #1099860

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Not a Coach
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Media, PA
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
Marvarnett - 2007-12-13 10:58 AM

Just to show how ignorant of power I am.  What does FTP stand for?  I understand it's purpose, but the acronym (sp) is killing me.

Thanks.

Haven't you ordered that book yet?

Functional Threshold Power.  Sort of the equivalent of LT.

Try this until Santa comes:  http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411/



Edited by JohnnyKay 2007-12-13 11:41 AM
2007-12-13 11:44 AM
in reply to: #1097826

Expert
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Salisbury
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter

I have a Power Meter. I've mostly used it for interval levels. Such as 5x2 min 180 watts or something. My FTP is currently 196. (Or was a couple weeks ago) I want to try to train smarter now. (I got the train with power book but haven't read it yet)

I do have a lot of questions. 1 question is...Is it normal for your watts to rise as your going in the same gear over a long period of time? Last night I started at 110 and 40 minutes later is was close to 140 and I didn't switch gears. Should I have "downshifted" if I wanted to maintain 110?

 

 

2007-12-13 11:49 AM
in reply to: #1099973

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Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
Rencor - 2007-12-13 11:44 AM

I have a Power Meter. I've mostly used it for interval levels. Such as 5x2 min 180 watts or something. My FTP is currently 196. (Or was a couple weeks ago) I want to try to train smarter now. (I got the train with power book but haven't read it yet)

I do have a lot of questions. 1 question is...Is it normal for your watts to rise as your going in the same gear over a long period of time? Last night I started at 110 and 40 minutes later is was close to 140 and I didn't switch gears. Should I have "downshifted" if I wanted to maintain 110?

Power has nothing to do with gearing.  If you wanted to maintain 110, you should have eased up.  If you wanted to maintain 110 AND keep the same cadence, then you should have changed gears.  On fluid traininers, the resistance tends to increase after about 5 minutes or so as the fluid warms-up.

I would try to do much longer intervals most of the time.  The 90% of FT is a good level, but look to do at least 10' stretches.  20' is probably better.  If you do shorter intervals, they should generally be harder.

2007-12-13 11:51 AM
in reply to: #1098789

Master
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portland, or
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
>>Anyway, share your main focus for next season (distance) and your current FTP (if you know it) and what sort of gains would you like to see.

IM (Lake Placid)

FTP going into IM Florida was 260

I would like to get into the 290-300 range for LP


scott


2007-12-13 12:19 PM
in reply to: #1097826

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Coach
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Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter

Kathy – I’ll let you new soon about my FT drop! I haven’t touched my bike over 30 days and counting. I’ll test in a few weeks. % of improvement will come depending on how much you are working/riding. For triatheltes we have to equate swim and run as well so it get a bit tougher but with the right periodization you could expect 8-12% over 8-12 weeks. In your case you could work on the hard part now by riding at least 2x a week (hard sessions of course) and later on as the weather cooperate you can do your IM specific training. Finally I use avg watts for FT if I test on the trainer and prob NP on the road as we tend to coast more due to hills, traffic etc. I would have to consider how hard I rode and terrain.  

Dan – you don’t need to train with power (You are to fast already )

Rencor – what JK said in particular about intervals

2007-12-13 1:20 PM
in reply to: #1097826

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Expert
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Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
I am in.
2007-12-13 2:03 PM
in reply to: #1097826

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Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter

Here's my rough plan over the next few months--at least until weather makes consistent outdoor riding more practical.  Feel free to critique or suggest some alternatives.

3 sessions per week. 

One weekday trainer session includes 30'-45' ~FT (say 98-102%), e.g. 2 x 20', 3 x 15', 4 x 10', etc.  Rest intervals of ~2'-5'.  Total time 60'-90'.

Second weekday trainer session of 60'-75'.  Interval durations similar to above, but ~88-92% of FT.  30'-40' steady run off the bike.

One weekend ride.  Up to 180' if outside.  No more than 120' if indoors.  Long intervals (20'-40') at ~80-85%.  Throw in a 10-20' FT interval.  Finish ride at 75-80%.

Every 4-6 weeks, probably replace the FT session with 6 x 4' to guage VO2max cpability relative to FT.

Goal is to 1)get back to ~310 from wherever I'm at after my lay-off and 2) raise towards 325.  All while making sure I'm getting quality run volume done since goal #1 for 2008 is to improve my run--winter/spring goals of sub-40 10k and sub-1:30 half marry.  Willing to sacrifice/stagnate on the swim for next year if need be.

2007-12-26 4:41 PM
in reply to: #1100335

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Veteran
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Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
I'd like to join. I haven't touched my bike in several months (besides a few z1 rides), and will not start until late Jan after running and recovering from a marathon.

My FT was around 275 late summer, I'm afraid to see where it's at now with all the recent run volume with barely any cycling. Goal is to get to 300 by an Aug HIM. Hoping to come up the learning curve quickly on how to train with power (have a CT, will get a PT later).
2007-12-26 9:43 PM
in reply to: #1099553

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
drchaya - 2007-12-13 10:20 AM

going for a powertap - but of course now I want it on the tri bike (race wheels) and road bike....since I have not yet gotten race wheels will likely get the Zipps with powertap - LBS thinks I can get away with using them in trainer class t/th jan-march (opinions?)

waiting to hear if one of the other sponsors will pay which will determine whether I am doing it....

 

meanwhile borrowed the rental powertap wheel and unit from LBS to try. have power showing etc but when I plug it into computer to download NOTHING HAPPENS.....

I am betting there is some upgrade that I have to go find but have not had time to go look....

I bought a set of tubular Zipp 404's with powertap off ebay for race wheels this summer. They were a pretty good deal as no one bids on them typically. 

I wouldn't want to use my Zipps on a trainer or for my everyday wheels to be able to get power numbers.

I have the typical mavic wheel that comes as an option directly from Sarris as my training bomb proof wheel. I bought mine from Performance Bike with 20% coupon and 10% rebate as a performance member brings $1000 price down to $720.



2007-12-27 9:26 AM
in reply to: #1097826

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Davidson, NC
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter

My power took a huge hit last July when I took a huge hit by a Honda Civic while riding.  I'm finally back to just about where I was when I first got my PT a year ago: 239w FTP though my weight is down to ~150.   I can't say that I have a target wattage for my A race in May.  I just want to see what sort of improvements I can get by focusing on FTP this winter while dropping another 5 lbs. 

I'm just trying to maintain a steady diet of 2x20m SST intervals 3-4 times a week and then whatever long ride I can put together on the weekend.  I'm not particularly creative with my workouts and this sorta helps me schedule my day since I can wake up at the same time each morning, ride inside & finish up in time to go to work.  Any thoughts on whether it's problematic to do essentially the same workout over and over?  It doesn't particularly bore me partly b/c I can be done in a little over an hour and still get in some quality work, but I sometimes wonder if I should mix it up more.  

And as I wrote this I remembered a goal (of sorts) that I thought about.  I do all my indoor riding on rollers. My goal is to increase my FTP enough so that I run out of gearing for SST intervals on the rollers.  My high end is a 50x12 on 3" drums, and that should take me over 240-250 watts, I think.  My experience shows a  lower wattage at a given speed than kreitler publishes, I guess due to weight, tires, phase of the moon, etc.

2007-12-28 7:00 AM
in reply to: #1097826

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Champion
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Atlanta, Ga
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter

Santa brought me: Training and Racing with a Power Meter!

Now when I get the Power Meter paid off, I will have the knowledge...

2007-12-28 8:02 AM
in reply to: #1097826

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Master
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, Minnesota
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
I too got that book from Santa. Intense reading. Lots of knowledge to absorb.
2007-12-28 9:37 AM
in reply to: #1097826

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Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
So.... I know there is no magic number but what area should we be shooting for as a watts/kg number? I just started using a CT for my workouts since it is a bit cold here and never even looked at wattage till the other day.

So is there a particular file you should use when testing the FTP or just any 40k? I do like this 10 mile hill repeat and do it a couple times. Seems like I can hold about 205 or so on that x2.

205w/79kg = 2.62w/kg

Trying to get to 75kg (hopefully by race time)
205w/75kg = 2.73w/kg with no power increase.

Guess i am not sure that all means over the 112 miles
2007-12-28 10:58 AM
in reply to: #1120176

Master
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portland, or
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
You can use this chart to see how your power profile stacks up to others.

I'm not familiar enough with CT's to suggest a specific course, but I would look for something flat or with a slight grade increase.

scott


2007-12-28 11:10 AM
in reply to: #1097826

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Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
wow i suck! that is a reality check... to be considered very good I would have to push 337... my legs hurt just thinking about it.
2007-12-28 12:24 PM
in reply to: #1120399

Master
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portland, or
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
Keep in mind that the chart is based on road cyclists. Very good is just that, a very good road cyclist and someone who could go sub 5 on most IM bike courses.

I would suggest a goal of getting into the Cat 4 range for your FTP. I don't know your history, but barring any severe limiters I think that's achievable based on where you're at today. Glancing at your logs it looks like you need more time on the bike more then anything. Combine that with focused sub-LT and LT work, and a 15%+ increase in FTP is very reasonable.

Combine that with your anticipated weight loss and you'll be in that moderate range.

scott
2007-12-28 1:35 PM
in reply to: #1097826

Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
My training has been way lacking over this month. Prior to that I didnt put much in to my logs here just on paper at home. But I totally agree MORE time on the bike. Feel a bit better now that we are talking sub 5 on most IM rides. I was thinking i would be closer ot 6:30 or 6:45 on my first IM.

I am back in the saddle this upcomming week and hope to get some Improvements.

History:
34
No real sports background other than baseball up to College.
Fat and lazy a year ago
Started "training" about 6 months ago or so.

2007-12-28 2:30 PM
in reply to: #1097826

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Master
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, Minnesota
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
Question about the chart

5s = 5 seconds?

FT = 60 mins?

My most recent 60 min ride (HR zone 2-3) was 2.73 so I've got alot of room for improvement.

2007-12-28 3:14 PM
in reply to: #1120783

Master
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portland, or
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
Here's a link to the explanation of the chart: power profile

The quick answer:

5s = Best effort for 5 seconds

FT = Functional Threshold = Best effort for 60 minutes

scott


2007-12-29 9:30 AM
in reply to: #1120783

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Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter

leapdog - 2007-12-28 3:30 PM Question about the chart 5s = 5 seconds? FT = 60 mins? My most recent 60 min ride (HR zone 2-3) was 2.73 so I've got alot of room for improvement.

Most recent ride in HR zone 2-3 would not be an accurate ride or gauge of your FTP.

Read the book about how to test but is an all out effort that hurts. 

My testing is super tough and I do it after a rest week...as my kids call it is it s 5 dog panting type workout not a zone 2-3.  

2007-12-29 9:33 AM
in reply to: #1119959

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter

leapdog - 2007-12-28 9:02 AM I too got that book from Santa. Intense reading. Lots of knowledge to absorb.

I've probably read the book 10x and still have lots to absorb. But it is a great resource. I do wish there was more tri oriented material as we don't really train like road racers. 

2007-12-29 9:40 AM
in reply to: #1097826

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Champion
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Michigan
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter

ME.  Just as soon as I find my HR strap so I can do some testing.

Does anyone know where I put it?

2007-12-29 9:44 AM
in reply to: #1097826

Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
yeah you left it at my place last night..... ill bring it over this afternoon
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