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Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 (Page 33)
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 2011-02-21 5:46 AM in reply to: #3154535 |
Master  1770     Bedford, MA |  Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011Jorge, your plan definitely helped get my numbers up over the winter. I was trying to find the results from the btt tt, and couldn't find them. Maybe they're not up, but if they are do you know where? Thanks for running such a fun and well organized event. It was great to meet you. |
| 2011-02-21 10:10 AM in reply to: #3364583 |
Expert 1260 Norton Shores, MI | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 W14Q1 2x20' at 100-105%LTHR (2') yesterday on the trainer. I was going to see how my warm-up went and then decide if these were going to be doable after the 11 mile run yesterday. I cannot believe how good I felt on these. I guess I cannot really say I was rested but it sure felt like it. I love when a training session feels like that. I definitely have my share of the opposite. I was able to average 21.6 mph for both. The previous 4x10' at same heart rate target were 21.1 - 21.3 mph. Some days ya got it some days ya dont. I am hoping for a big jump on my last test which should be this weekend or next week. Last year I came out of this program and had my fastest Oly bike split ever (23.72mph) at the end of May, previous was around 22.5mph, and then lost a touch as I prepared for my (2) HIM's. This year, I am primarily sticking to Oly distance with one HIM event so hopefully I can carry all this forward and continue to improve. Hard to argue with this program. |
| 2011-02-21 7:07 PM in reply to: #3364583 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 natethomas2000 - 2011-02-21 5:46 AM Jorge, your plan definitely helped get my numbers up over the winter. I was trying to find the results from the btt tt, and couldn't find them. Maybe they're not up, but if they are do you know where? Thanks for running such a fun and well organized event. It was great to meet you. Nate, 1st of all, it was very nice meeting you yesterday! 2nd of all, congrats on a killer result yesterday (3rd overall) against a very stiff competition with a bunch of very strong local studs and your avg 4.49 w/kg. 3rd and last, congrats on the great power improvements, hopefully you get that running under control soon and you'll be posting great results this season! Keep it up dude and once I can ride, let's get together for some training. |
| 2011-02-22 6:40 PM in reply to: #3359893 |
Veteran 220 Hudsonville, MI | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Thanks for the input on power meter training smarchildon! We are getting hammered with snow, can't wait to get outside and ride again. |
| 2011-02-23 8:38 AM in reply to: #3154535 |
Extreme Veteran 688 | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Jorge- |
| 2011-02-23 1:16 PM in reply to: #3368334 |
| Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 MRDAVIDALEXANDER - 2011-02-23 6:38 AM Jorge- I am doing it as part of HIM training for Calif. 70.3 in April. I do day 1 and 2, and then long ride outside on weekends. I have to be more careful though, there is not a lot of room for rest if you are doing this and HIM run training. I was running a lot (for me) and doing the 6 x 4 last Wed. nite , tiring out my legs, and not taking very good care of them, and got a calf strain on my run the next day. the 6 x 4s didn't cause it, but I am sure contributed to it |
| 2011-02-23 2:08 PM in reply to: #3154535 |
Veteran 820 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Just thought I'd chime in with some up to date results, I just took the week 5 3 min test and will be taking the 20 min test on sat. I flipp floped them because it works best for my rest cycles for the test. Usually I am more rested on sat so I like to do the 20 min test then. First I started out by doing the test because I had no idea where I was as I just purchased a trainer. My number come from the watt meter that came with the nashbar trainer. After my initial test I did the prep weeks and tested again. I think some of my gains came from loses from not cycling for 3 months, but here they are none the less. Starting out. Before prep 3 min 204 20 min 131 CP 127 week 1 3 min 225 20 min 157 CP 153 week 5 3 min 245 20 min 1?? CP 1?? Can't wait till sat to see where I'm at. Shooting for 180+. I just wish I had more time so I could get in the optional long workouts because I know those would help, but so far haven't had the time. |
| 2011-02-24 8:25 AM in reply to: #3368959 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 ChrisM - 2011-02-23 1:16 PM MRDAVIDALEXANDER - 2011-02-23 6:38 AM Jorge- I am doing it as part of HIM training for Calif. 70.3 in April. I do day 1 and 2, and then long ride outside on weekends. I have to be more careful though, there is not a lot of room for rest if you are doing this and HIM run training. I was running a lot (for me) and doing the 6 x 4 last Wed. nite , tiring out my legs, and not taking very good care of them, and got a calf strain on my run the next day. the 6 x 4s didn't cause it, but I am sure contributed to it Yeah, it one of those things that makes tri-training tricky because you have to manage your load on 3 sports. It is tough to break down what to focus on more, when and how much load we can handle at a given time. Usually if you increase the load on 1 or 2 sports you have to be careful how much is too much and how hard is too hard. On one hand you increase your running load by running more frequently and on the other doing this cycling plan increase the load via more intensity. Unless the load is such it strains your body enough to adapt and get fitter or the strain is more of what the body can handle and recovery is slow and more strain it can handle can lead to inconsistent training or set backs. To add a bit of difficulty to managing load, there is also the fact that some training is more important than other depending on your main event, weaknesses and how much training you have until. And then you have the whole, taking care of 'the details' to make sure you are recovering from session to session. Sorry of this sounds like and ad but on the online coaching plans (based on the same principles as the cycling plan), we take all this into consideration and to try to make it as 'simple' as possible for the athletes. Still, the feedback and interaction we have helps to make tweak it along the way It seems you have to make sure you are managing your load for all swim + bike + run + recovery based on how you are adapting and your current limitations. Take care of that calf and if you have any questions, please let me know. I am happy to help! |
| 2011-02-24 4:16 PM in reply to: #3154535 |
Extreme Veteran 608 Iceland | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Hi Jorge, I got a question for you. I am currently in week 6 meaning I had a test week last week. My CP increased by 18 Watts (from 225 to 243) and I am really struggeling this week with the increase. I tried the 6 x 4 minutes 2 days ago and was not able to hold my 20MP (254) but went with my CP instead which was hard enough. Today I managed to get through Day 2 but it was tough... Should I just keep pushing and keep trying to manage to make the workouts with the current CP or would it be better to decrease it again? Maybe its also just in my head which tells me that the CP is way too high and I can't do it. There is no way I could hold 243 for a whole hour so maybe it is off somehow... What are your suggestions? Thanks again for a great program  (I loved it until I did the first 6 x 4 minutes  ) |
| 2011-02-25 10:24 AM in reply to: #3371272 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Joblin - 2011-02-24 4:16 PM Hi Jorge, I got a question for you. I am currently in week 6 meaning I had a test week last week. My CP increased by 18 Watts (from 225 to 243) and I am really struggeling this week with the increase. I tried the 6 x 4 minutes 2 days ago and was not able to hold my 20MP (254) but went with my CP instead which was hard enough. Today I managed to get through Day 2 but it was tough... Should I just keep pushing and keep trying to manage to make the workouts with the current CP or would it be better to decrease it again? Maybe its also just in my head which tells me that the CP is way too high and I can't do it. There is no way I could hold 243 for a whole hour so maybe it is off somehow... What are your suggestions? Thanks again for a great program (I loved it until I did the first 6 x 4 minutes )If you managed to do the 20 min test and average 254w then the 6x4 min should be hard but doable. maybe start at 250w and build up from there. Fitness wise it seems you have the power to do so, it might be your head that is making it even harder. Sometimes you have to get used to this workouts which are intense and usually something not many are used to. Give it another try and let us know how it goes! |
| 2011-02-25 11:29 AM in reply to: #3372297 |
| Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 JorgeM - 2011-02-25 8:24 AM Joblin - 2011-02-24 4:16 PM Hi Jorge, I got a question for you. I am currently in week 6 meaning I had a test week last week. My CP increased by 18 Watts (from 225 to 243) and I am really struggeling this week with the increase. I tried the 6 x 4 minutes 2 days ago and was not able to hold my 20MP (254) but went with my CP instead which was hard enough. Today I managed to get through Day 2 but it was tough... Should I just keep pushing and keep trying to manage to make the workouts with the current CP or would it be better to decrease it again? Maybe its also just in my head which tells me that the CP is way too high and I can't do it. There is no way I could hold 243 for a whole hour so maybe it is off somehow... What are your suggestions? Thanks again for a great program (I loved it until I did the first 6 x 4 minutes )If you managed to do the 20 min test and average 254w then the 6x4 min should be hard but doable. maybe start at 250w and build up from there. Fitness wise it seems you have the power to do so, it might be your head that is making it even harder. Sometimes you have to get used to this workouts which are intense and usually something not many are used to. Give it another try and let us know how it goes! Completely agree. I was able to hold X power for the 20 minute test. It was hard. The 6 x 4 were beyond hard, way harder than I expected. And yes, almost more mental than physical, since I was hurting from about 1 minute in on the first interval, and it seems there's no way I can finsh this interval, much less 5 more of them. It just takes a bit.. ok a lot.. of patience, and just figuring out a way to get through them. And guts. The 6 x 4s are different than anything that came before them in the program, so they come as a bit of a shock. Add to that, you know you get to repeat them 3 more times..... |
| 2011-02-25 2:22 PM in reply to: #3154535 |
Extreme Veteran 608 Iceland | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Thanks for the answers. I guess I will try to suck it up. I was also very tired and physically exhausted on Tuesday so maybe it was just one of those days. But as Chris M said as well, it is an overwhelming thought when you already realize during the first minute of the first said that it is really tough and you have to do this 6 times in total! |
| 2011-02-28 11:09 AM in reply to: #3372786 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Joblin - 2011-02-25 2:22 PM Thanks for the answers. I guess I will try to suck it up. I was also very tired and physically exhausted on Tuesday so maybe it was just one of those days. But as Chris M said as well, it is an overwhelming thought when you already realize during the first minute of the first said that it is really tough and you have to do this 6 times in total! The main difficulty many athletes experience when doing this workout is that they tend to start a bit too hard. My advice (and something I'll add into the guide) is to start a bit easy on the 1st set and build up from there. Ideally you want to be able to produce your 20MP avg on all sets 1 to 5 and the 6th one "let it rip", but that is on ideal conditions, rested, fueled, etc. The reality is that not everyone can accomplish that with busy work schedules, family, etc. hence your power fluctuates a bit from day to day. With that in mind, start a bit easier, and make a fitness "inventory" for the day; that means, based on perceived exertion, let your body tell you what you can handle that day. Maybe, your usual 20MP that day feels a bit harder because you are tired so if your 20MP is usually 200watts, that day based on how your body 'feels', 197 watts maybe be representative of your 20MP so how with that. On other days if you are doing a good job fueling/resting and coping with life priorities then your 20MP might feel more like 203w, then on THAT day, go with it! Makes sense? |
| 2011-02-28 10:28 PM in reply to: #3154535 |
| Veteran 285 | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 The good news is I finally got a powertap. The sad news is that the power curve I'm using was a little high. Still a great workout and I can tell I'm getting stronger. |
| 2011-03-01 3:30 AM in reply to: #3375524 |
Extreme Veteran 608 Iceland | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 JorgeM - 2011-02-28 5:09 PM Joblin - 2011-02-25 2:22 PM Thanks for the answers. I guess I will try to suck it up. I was also very tired and physically exhausted on Tuesday so maybe it was just one of those days. But as Chris M said as well, it is an overwhelming thought when you already realize during the first minute of the first said that it is really tough and you have to do this 6 times in total! The main difficulty many athletes experience when doing this workout is that they tend to start a bit too hard. My advice (and something I'll add into the guide) is to start a bit easy on the 1st set and build up from there. Ideally you want to be able to produce your 20MP avg on all sets 1 to 5 and the 6th one "let it rip", but that is on ideal conditions, rested, fueled, etc. The reality is that not everyone can accomplish that with busy work schedules, family, etc. hence your power fluctuates a bit from day to day. With that in mind, start a bit easier, and make a fitness "inventory" for the day; that means, based on perceived exertion, let your body tell you what you can handle that day. Maybe, your usual 20MP that day feels a bit harder because you are tired so if your 20MP is usually 200watts, that day based on how your body 'feels', 197 watts maybe be representative of your 20MP so how with that. On other days if you are doing a good job fueling/resting and coping with life priorities then your 20MP might feel more like 203w, then on THAT day, go with it! Makes sense? Yes that makes a lot of sense I did the second 6 x 4 yesterday and was able to hold the 20MP without a problem. Well it was definitely not easy it was TOUGH but I could do it. I think it helped that I was less tired and only had an easy swim the day before and this time my head was fully in it. I even managed to hold a 260-262 Watt for the last one but decided to call that 257 avg as I don't want to start with 260 next week Thanks again for a great program Edited by Joblin 2011-03-01 3:30 AM |
| 2011-03-01 10:00 AM in reply to: #3375524 |
| 48 | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 JorgeM - 2011-02-28 10:09 AM Joblin - 2011-02-25 2:22 PM Thanks for the answers. I guess I will try to suck it up. I was also very tired and physically exhausted on Tuesday so maybe it was just one of those days. But as Chris M said as well, it is an overwhelming thought when you already realize during the first minute of the first said that it is really tough and you have to do this 6 times in total! The main difficulty many athletes experience when doing this workout is that they tend to start a bit too hard. My advice (and something I'll add into the guide) is to start a bit easy on the 1st set and build up from there. Ideally you want to be able to produce your 20MP avg on all sets 1 to 5 and the 6th one "let it rip", but that is on ideal conditions, rested, fueled, etc. The reality is that not everyone can accomplish that with busy work schedules, family, etc. hence your power fluctuates a bit from day to day. It's been 2 months since I faced one of these 6x4 workouts, and I still don't think I've fully recovered. I think there are a number of factors that make the 6x4's either hard, or outright impossible to do. The mental aspect mentioned above is a big one for me. With 20MP, it hurts, but when it's over, you're done. You're not having to face the additional intervals of agony. The readiness Jorge mentions is a big factor as well. After all, when we do our 20MP test, we've prepared with a rest/taper week. We're really ready for a best effort. Finally, there's a big difference in the overall stress associated with a 20 minute max interval and the 6x4's. Looking back on my sessions, the 20MP interval got me a TSS of 38. The first 6x4 session (ignoring the last 1' of rest), starting at my 20MP power, gave a TSS of 51, roughly 35% more stress based on Coggan's model. It's not really a fair comparison, since one is a 20' effort, and the other is 29', but clearly, the 6x4 workout is a lot more overall work we're asking our bodies to accomplish. I also believe there's a difference in how this workout is perceived by different people depending on how much of an anaerobic contribution they've got in their CP. If your 20MP is 105% of your CP, I would expect it to slightly easier to accomplish a 6x4 than if your 20MP is 107% - 108% as mine was when doing these. I'd suggest the protocol for 6x4 be to do it at a starting wattage of 104% of CP, then increasing from there as suggested. 104% might be a touch low for many, but you'd have a better chance of success and feeling good about the workout |
| 2011-03-01 11:20 AM in reply to: #3154535 |
| 37 | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Regarding the 6x4's - as a coach in a former life (team sport) practice isn't always about being able to successfully accomplish a work out or task. Occasionaly failure, or not meeting the work out goal, is more critical to overall success in the long run. Joblin is a great example. After the 1st attempt at 6x4 she was like uh oh, that wasn't good. She identified why it didn't go well and was able to fix it the second go around. That's perfect! Bravo! I walked off the trainer around holiday time. It was ugly. I got half way through the work out and decided to stop and regroup. I had slept too little, ate too much of the wrong foods and miss timed my work out. I fixed the issues and hit the workout the next time. It was a good lesson. Sometimes they are physical, sometimes mental. Both aspects are worth the fine tuning and will help on race day. |
| 2011-03-02 2:41 PM in reply to: #3154535 |
| Veteran 285 | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Is week 14 - workout 1 2x20 @ 95-100% the toughest workout of the plan? Was wondering if I was going to be able to hold that power early in the morning. Nothing like getting through a tough workout that you're not sure you can hold. Hoping for good results from the last couple weeks. While, nothing to write home about, it's hard to argue about the sucess of the training program by looking at the report for indoor cycling this winter.  Edited by mrpetey 2011-03-02 2:51 PM |
| 2011-03-03 3:02 PM in reply to: #3154535 |
Veteran 820 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Jorge, Had a question for you, and though it isn't directly on the 6x4's and the difficuty, it is happening during this time frame. I had everything set up perfect to test out of the the second block the day before our family vacation to Cozumel, but now I've been sick all week and have not rode since last sat when I tested out of Vo2 max. My question is could I just skip day 2 and 4, havent been doing 4 all along any way, and just do day 1 and 3 every other day to catch back up, I ride on Tue, Thur, Sat or would that be too much? there would actually be 2 days left in there for recovery type rides if I need them. I would really like to test out before vacation if possible, or should I just finish up the four weeks, go on vacation for 8 days, then test when I get back?
I know it might be different for everyone, but just wondered what your thoughts would be. |
| 2011-03-10 12:41 PM in reply to: #3154535 |
| Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Just letting Jorge know some of us are still doing the program Also wanted to report some challenge results. Last October, before I started the program, I did a sprint tri with a fairly flat 12 mi course, a couple rollers but also some downhill, at about 19.5 mph. Sunday I did an international 24 mile course, mostly pancake flat, at 21.5 mph. Edited by ChrisM 2011-03-10 12:48 PM |
| 2011-03-12 7:51 AM in reply to: #3364583 |
Expert 1260 Norton Shores, MI | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 I just finished up my final 30 minute TT test on Friday. This was a week later than I wanted as I got the flu and that put me down for the count for a couple days. Once again, I have improved significantly this winter. I know that I botched test #3 a little bit as it was one of my first rides on the new trainer and did not get my gearing correct. But, from Test 3 (21.16mph) to Test 4 (21.68mph) I know I got stronger. I could not be more thankful for the program and what it has done for my cycling. If you do the workouts, as hard as they are, you will get better. I have been able to improve my running and swimming this winter as well concurrently with this cycling program. I have taken my swim T-Pace from 1:32 yd/100 to 1:27yd/100 for a 1000yd TT this winter as well and my running - although I have not specifically tested, can feel improvement in my paces. Thanks Jorge - Cheers! Ryan |
| 2011-03-16 4:27 AM in reply to: #3154535 |
Extreme Veteran 608 Iceland | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 I am also still doing the program and I am currently in Week 9. Just did my last set of 6 x 4minutes yesterday and it was the first time that I did not curse out Jorges' name several times during the intervals and I also did not feel like puking afterwards What made a difference was definitely having a complete rest day yesterday! First time I did it like this and it was well worth it. Next week will be test week again and I am curious to see what I can do |
| 2011-03-22 11:48 AM in reply to: #3154535 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Sprry, I've been a bit MIA for the pasty weeks as I've been focusing on a new business venture. Anyway, how are you guys doing? |
| 2011-03-22 12:48 PM in reply to: #3408610 |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Jorge - off topic question, but are you changing coaching groups? I noticed the name change on your blog. I'm still planning to move over to your semi-coached HIM plan in April. Just working on increasing the CP at the moment. Back to week 7 this week after a bit of a hiatus. |
| 2011-03-23 7:36 AM in reply to: #3408721 |
Expert 1706 NoVA | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 GoFaster - 2011-03-22 1:48 PM Jorge - off topic question, but are you changing coaching groups? I noticed the name change on your blog. I'm going out on a limb and saying YES!!! If you read the first few lines of that blog it says Jorge has started his own company!!! I'm on the final test week and let me just say THANK YOU again to Jorge---I did his plan last winter and started strong in the spring...and again this year I'm seeing some great improvement---power is actually UP from last year outside... |
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