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Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group CLOSED! (Page 34)
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 2013-05-29 11:30 AM in reply to: doxie |
Regular  641    Chicago |  Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor GroupQuestion for the group re: hills This weekend I am riding the IMWI course (the loop) and I am wondering what is the best approach to conquering those hills? At best, my hill experience is minimal, and at worst, nonexistant, since I live in flatland. Do any of you have any best practices for hills? What should I do as I approach the hill? How should I get up it? What are the differences between getting up a long, slow climb vs a short, steep climb? How can I best conserve energy on hills? And the decents - what's the best approach? I'm racing Racine in July and the Pigman (Iowa) in August, and neither of those courses are hilly (600ish and 800ish ft climbing, respectively), so I'm not that worried. But in the future, say if I want to do IMWI, what drills can I do on a trainer that would help me for hill training? Gracias!! |
| 2013-05-29 11:43 AM in reply to: doxie |
Master 3195  Just South of Boston | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group Originally posted by doxie Originally posted by Mike_D Question about race planning & training. I have 4 races on the calendar for the summer -- June 15 HIM, June 30 Sprint, July 14 Oly, August 18 HIM. I'm nearing the first HIM, and am thinking in terms of getting ready for the second HIM, I'll likely take my training plan, go back 8 weeks from race day, and use that for HIM #2 in August (first week post HIM #1 would be recovery/slow ramp up) Along the way, the sprint & oly would be treated as training days/fun to-do races (local sprint & NYC Tri). Does this sound like reasonable approach? As my prior posts discussed, HIM #1 will be a 'just finish' event due to a lingering hammy issue which has impacted my run in a big way. Thoughts? Mike, is HIM #2 also a "just fnish" event? If it is, then I think your plan of repeating those 8 week sof your training plan for HIM #2 is good. If not, another option (and I don't know if it's better, but just another option), would be to re-organize your training sked so it ends/peaks at HIM #2 and treat HIM #1, the sprint and the Oly as training/fun-to-do races. HIM is Timberman in NH. The first 3 races of the year will be all 'fun to do" types, despite my wanting the first HIM to be more than that. However, HIM #2 I'd like to make a bit more competitive, and give it a good go. I may take a look at the current plan and do some re-arranging to have it peak at race time. Thanks for the ideas! |
| 2013-05-29 12:28 PM in reply to: doxie |
| Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group Originally posted by doxie Question for the group re: hills This weekend I am riding the IMWI course (the loop) and I am wondering what is the best approach to conquering those hills? At best, my hill experience is minimal, and at worst, nonexistant, since I live in flatland. Do any of you have any best practices for hills? What should I do as I approach the hill? How should I get up it? What are the differences between getting up a long, slow climb vs a short, steep climb? How can I best conserve energy on hills? And the decents - what's the best approach? I'm racing Racine in July and the Pigman (Iowa) in August, and neither of those courses are hilly (600ish and 800ish ft climbing, respectively), so I'm not that worried. But in the future, say if I want to do IMWI, what drills can I do on a trainer that would help me for hill training? Gracias!! The #1 key to riding hills in a triathlon is proper gearing. I cannot emphasize that enough because no strategy will work unless you have the gearing to allow you to execute it. For an event like an IM, where your overall bike effort should stay comfortable throughout, you're going to need some easy gears if the course is hilly. Maybe a 50/34 up front and an 11-28 in back for the average rider. Those going under 6 hours will use a smaller cassette, those going over 7 hours may need something bigger. Once you've got the right gearing, then the strategy becomes to even out your effort as much as possible. It's okay to use a little more effort on the hills, but not too much unless it's really short and steep. You shouldn't use so much effort that you feel like you need to coast the downhill. It may be best to coast the downhill if it's steep and you're going over 35 mph, but you shouldn't need to coast to just because your legs need to recover. In long course racing, the goal for most people isn't to ride in a way that achieves the fastest bike split. It's to ride in a way that sets you up for your best run. Attacking the hills will certainly save you more time, but those spikes will trash your run. |
| 2013-05-29 12:37 PM in reply to: tri808 |
Expert 1121 Menomonee Falls, WI | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group Originally posted by tri808 Originally posted by doxie Question for the group re: hills This weekend I am riding the IMWI course (the loop) and I am wondering what is the best approach to conquering those hills? At best, my hill experience is minimal, and at worst, nonexistant, since I live in flatland. Do any of you have any best practices for hills? What should I do as I approach the hill? How should I get up it? What are the differences between getting up a long, slow climb vs a short, steep climb? How can I best conserve energy on hills? And the decents - what's the best approach? I'm racing Racine in July and the Pigman (Iowa) in August, and neither of those courses are hilly (600ish and 800ish ft climbing, respectively), so I'm not that worried. But in the future, say if I want to do IMWI, what drills can I do on a trainer that would help me for hill training? Gracias!! The #1 key to riding hills in a triathlon is proper gearing. I cannot emphasize that enough because no strategy will work unless you have the gearing to allow you to execute it. For an event like an IM, where your overall bike effort should stay comfortable throughout, you're going to need some easy gears if the course is hilly. Maybe a 50/34 up front and an 11-28 in back for the average rider. Those going under 6 hours will use a smaller cassette, those going over 7 hours may need something bigger. Once you've got the right gearing, then the strategy becomes to even out your effort as much as possible. It's okay to use a little more effort on the hills, but not too much unless it's really short and steep. You shouldn't use so much effort that you feel like you need to coast the downhill. It may be best to coast the downhill if it's steep and you're going over 35 mph, but you shouldn't need to coast to just because your legs need to recover. In long course racing, the goal for most people isn't to ride in a way that achieves the fastest bike split. It's to ride in a way that sets you up for your best run. Attacking the hills will certainly save you more time, but those spikes will trash your run. Yup. Gearing is definitely important. I rode IMWI last year with 50/34 & 12/27. I think 11-28 on the back would have been nicer, but no biggie. The key is being able to spin up most of those hills at a decent cadence 70-80. Last thing you want to do is grind in any hard gears because of the difficulty of that course. As far as prep for the hills, I would suggest getting out and riding as many hills as possible between now and IM. I think riding the course is great prep if your schedule allows it. In addition if you live close enough to WI you should consider the Horribly Hilly Hundreds on 6/15. It is the ultimate prep for IMWI and it gives you 100, 150 & 200K course options with more hills than you can imagine! |
| 2013-05-29 1:08 PM in reply to: sbsmann |
New user 64 | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group Questions for the group: My first HIM is about 18 weeks away...2nd year of tris and i just completed one Duathlon and 2 OLYs in the past couple of months...running is my weakest of the 3 sports and the longest i have ever run is about 1.5hours or 7 to 8 miles. I am following one of the BT 20 week plans and of course will be ramping up my running... My questions are: Should i try to fit in a stand alone half marathon if i can find one that fits my schedule? Has anyone else done a HIM without first running a half marathon? Or is it enough just to gauge nutrition and fitness based my long training runs? Thanks! |
| 2013-05-29 1:51 PM in reply to: Gene67 |
| Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group Originally posted by Gene67 Questions for the group: My first HIM is about 18 weeks away...2nd year of tris and i just completed one Duathlon and 2 OLYs in the past couple of months...running is my weakest of the 3 sports and the longest i have ever run is about 1.5hours or 7 to 8 miles. I am following one of the BT 20 week plans and of course will be ramping up my running... My questions are: Should i try to fit in a stand alone half marathon if i can find one that fits my schedule? Has anyone else done a HIM without first running a half marathon? Or is it enough just to gauge nutrition and fitness based my long training runs? Thanks! If your goal is the HIM, then my answer would be to not try to fit in a stand alone half marathon into your current training plan. If you were a more experienced runner who is has dozens of 10+ mile runs under their belt, then maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea. FWIW, I would never purposely schedule a half marathon within my HIM plan. The reasons I would advise against it is simply because it is too disruptive to your overall training. Increasing your run fitness is more about being consistant with your workouts over a long period of time rather than having a handful of really good workouts (such as a race). I also feel that knowing your stand along half marathon time won't really help you pace your HIM that well. It will be a indicator of your run fitness, but a race pace brick (such as a 3 hour ride followed by a 4 mile run) will give you a better idea of how fast you can run off the bike. I know a lot of people who can run sub 1:30 half marathons, but can't crack 1:45 in a HIM run because they don't have enough swim and bike fitness to sustain their run. Now if you simply want to do the half marathon for fun, certainly you can adjust your plan to do so. It won't suddenly make your plan blow up, but again, if deciding between the two with the HIM being the goal, I wouldn't do it. For me personally, I love to bike race, and I do mix in some short bike races into my HIM plan simply because I like to ride. I know it's not ideal for HIM training, but it's a compromise I'm willing to make because I enjoy it. |
| 2013-05-29 2:27 PM in reply to: tri808 |
Regular 673 SF Bay area | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group
One question you have to honestly answer is "Can I do a race 'just for fun?'" I personally struggle in a race not to give it all, the only way I've really been successful is to pace for someone who runs slower than I do to keep me in check. If you can run it for fun at a pace that will be more like a training run than a race, you will get a chance to practice nutrition and hydration for the longer run, and that is a good thing. |
| 2013-05-29 3:42 PM in reply to: 0 |
| Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group Originally posted by TTom
One question you have to honestly answer is "Can I do a race 'just for fun?'" I personally struggle in a race not to give it all, the only way I've really been successful is to pace for someone who runs slower than I do to keep me in check. If you can run it for fun at a pace that will be more like a training run than a race, you will get a chance to practice nutrition and hydration for the longer run, and that is a good thing. Oh...when I said do the race for fun, I still meant racing all out...but more so because you thought it would be a fun race to do. For example a bunch of your friends were racing, it's a race you've always done or want to set a new PR, etc. Edited by tri808 2013-05-29 3:43 PM |
| 2013-05-29 6:27 PM in reply to: Fresno_Joe |
Master 1531 TORONTO | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group Originally posted by Fresno_Joe I had my bike fit on Thursday, went pretty well I think (although really I have no basis for comparison and no knowledge sufficient enough to give me an informed opinion). My previous long bike ride was about 30 miles. Friday I went for a relaxed 37-ish miles, but it had some intermittent stops so it wasn't really a 37 mile ride. But yesterday I went for a solid 46 miles. The first 10 miles or so my sitbones were having trouble getting comfy, then either I got numb or hit the sweet spot because I felt great for awhile. I wanted to push it hard and go 25 miles then turn around, but at about the 22 mile mark the road got pretty bad, so at mile 23 or so I turned around. At which point I realized that the wind had been to my back nearly the entire time. So going back was a lot rougher than the first half. But the weather was cool, I needed very little nutrition and very little water. Maybe at about mile 30-35 my sitbones started complaining so I noticed myself standing every couple miles or shifting around in the seat a bit. And at about mile 40 or so I turned my head to look behind me and realized my neck was very stiff. But no lingering issues, not stiff at all as I walked around when I finished nor this morning. All in all happy with the experience and looking forward to spending more time in the saddle. I assume it's a vicious circle such that with more time in the saddle more comfort will come. 11 weeks to go so I don't have that much time. Swim and run are going according to plan but now that I've got all the pieces and the bike fit is done I don't really have any more excuses for the bike, have to get out there and get a ton more mileage. Well if you notice the same discomfort on your next ride or two I'd go back to the fitter and describe your experience. It may be that your fit needs a few more tweeks. That's how my guy is. He wants me to follow up with him and the cost of a fitting should include some follow up appointments. |
| 2013-05-29 8:38 PM in reply to: tri808 |
New user 64 | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group Originally posted by tri808 Originally posted by TTom
One question you have to honestly answer is "Can I do a race 'just for fun?'" I personally struggle in a race not to give it all, the only way I've really been successful is to pace for someone who runs slower than I do to keep me in check. If you can run it for fun at a pace that will be more like a training run than a race, you will get a chance to practice nutrition and hydration for the longer run, and that is a good thing. Oh...when I said do the race for fun, I still meant racing all out...but more so because you thought it would be a fun race to do. For example a bunch of your friends were racing, it's a race you've always done or want to set a new PR, etc. Appreciate the advice...I think I will stick to my training plan as my goal is really the HIM and not a half marathon...my plan does have a 3hour bike and a 4mile run or so brick in a couple of places, so will use that to gauge my run pace...as i think about it, i really can not do a race without going all out and i am afraid it will compromise my training for several days... |
| 2013-05-30 8:11 AM in reply to: Gene67 |
| Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group I'm leaving for Kona this morning for my HIM on Saturday. I'll be bib 1630. Should be fun times as there are about 10 of us from my training group racing and a few others I know of. The BT mobile site hasn't been working for me, so I may not be able to post anything here till Sunday. Best of luck to any others that are racing and keep the training up for everyone else. |
| 2013-05-30 8:15 AM in reply to: tri808 |
Master 1531 TORONTO | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group Originally posted by tri808 I'm leaving for Kona this morning for my HIM on Saturday. I'll be bib 1630. Should be fun times as there are about 10 of us from my training group racing and a few others I know of. The BT mobile site hasn't been working for me, so I may not be able to post anything here till Sunday. Best of luck to any others that are racing and keep the training up for everyone else. Have a great race!! |
| 2013-05-30 8:19 AM in reply to: tri808 |
Expert 1121 Menomonee Falls, WI | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group Originally posted by tri808 I'm leaving for Kona this morning for my HIM on Saturday. I'll be bib 1630. Should be fun times as there are about 10 of us from my training group racing and a few others I know of. The BT mobile site hasn't been working for me, so I may not be able to post anything here till Sunday. Best of luck to any others that are racing and keep the training up for everyone else. Good luck Jason. Just remember - don't go too fast on the bike  |
| 2013-05-30 8:34 AM in reply to: tri808 |
Master 3195 Just South of Boston | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group Originally posted by tri808 I'm leaving for Kona this morning for my HIM on Saturday. I'll be bib 1630. Should be fun times as there are about 10 of us from my training group racing and a few others I know of. The BT mobile site hasn't been working for me, so I may not be able to post anything here till Sunday. Best of luck to any others that are racing and keep the training up for everyone else. Good luck, Jason!! Someday I'd love to post "I'm leaving for Kona this morning..." |
| 2013-05-30 9:06 AM in reply to: tri808 |
Regular 673 SF Bay area | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group Go get 'em Jason! Have a great race. Looking forward to hearing all the details. |
| 2013-05-30 10:13 AM in reply to: tri808 |
Master 7712 Orlando | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group Originally posted by tri808I'm leaving for Kona this morning for my HIM on Saturday. I'll be bib 1630. Should be fun times as there are about 10 of us from my training group racing and a few others I know of. The BT mobile site hasn't been working for me, so I may not be able to post anything here till Sunday. Best of luck to any others that are racing and keep the training up for everyone else. Have a great race! I'm looking forward to winning the "predict my him" contest |
| 2013-05-30 10:21 AM in reply to: TTom |
Extreme Veteran 377 Ogallala, Nebraska | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group |
| 2013-05-30 12:41 PM in reply to: tri808 |
Veteran 1677 Houston, Texas | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group Hope you have a great race (and that the wind is kind!), Jason. Looking forward to reading the race report! |
| 2013-05-30 5:17 PM in reply to: sbsmann |
Regular 641 Chicago | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group Originally posted by sbsmann Originally posted by tri808 Yup. Gearing is definitely important. I rode IMWI last year with 50/34 & 12/27. I think 11-28 on the back would have been nicer, but no biggie. The key is being able to spin up most of those hills at a decent cadence 70-80. Last thing you want to do is grind in any hard gears because of the difficulty of that course. As far as prep for the hills, I would suggest getting out and riding as many hills as possible between now and IM. I think riding the course is great prep if your schedule allows it. In addition if you live close enough to WI you should consider the Horribly Hilly Hundreds on 6/15. It is the ultimate prep for IMWI and it gives you 100, 150 & 200K course options with more hills than you can imagine! Originally posted by doxie The #1 key to riding hills in a triathlon is proper gearing. I cannot emphasize that enough because no strategy will work unless you have the gearing to allow you to execute it. For an event like an IM, where your overall bike effort should stay comfortable throughout, you're going to need some easy gears if the course is hilly. Maybe a 50/34 up front and an 11-28 in back for the average rider. Those going under 6 hours will use a smaller cassette, those going over 7 hours may need something bigger. Once you've got the right gearing, then the strategy becomes to even out your effort as much as possible. It's okay to use a little more effort on the hills, but not too much unless it's really short and steep. You shouldn't use so much effort that you feel like you need to coast the downhill. It may be best to coast the downhill if it's steep and you're going over 35 mph, but you shouldn't need to coast to just because your legs need to recover. In long course racing, the goal for most people isn't to ride in a way that achieves the fastest bike split. It's to ride in a way that sets you up for your best run. Attacking the hills will certainly save you more time, but those spikes will trash your run. Question for the group re: hills This weekend I am riding the IMWI course (the loop) and I am wondering what is the best approach to conquering those hills? At best, my hill experience is minimal, and at worst, nonexistant, since I live in flatland. Do any of you have any best practices for hills? What should I do as I approach the hill? How should I get up it? What are the differences between getting up a long, slow climb vs a short, steep climb? How can I best conserve energy on hills? And the decents - what's the best approach? I'm racing Racine in July and the Pigman (Iowa) in August, and neither of those courses are hilly (600ish and 800ish ft climbing, respectively), so I'm not that worried. But in the future, say if I want to do IMWI, what drills can I do on a trainer that would help me for hill training? Gracias!! Thanks for the advice! I've never upgraded the gears so I'm running a 53/39 and 11-25 right now so we will see what that is like for Saturday's ride. I'll try to remember to take the hills at a steady cadence w/o needlessly expending too much energy, but when I'm riding with my friends, sometimes pride/competition gets the best of me Good luck this weekend, Jason! |
 2013-05-31 11:17 AM in reply to: doxie |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2013-05-31 11:18 AM in reply to: tri808 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2013-05-31 11:43 AM in reply to: Fred D |
| Master 3195 Just South of Boston | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group First race this year (and first HIM of the year ) for me is 2 weeks from tomorrow and I'm having my first twinges of pre-race freak out. I'm sure it will subside, but knowing I've been injured and not as trained as I should be has me likely more anxious about this than I otherwise would be. Maybe this last big weekend of training will help sooth some fraying nerves. |
| 2013-05-31 1:52 PM in reply to: tri808 |
| Veteran 403 Maryland | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group Originally posted by tri808 I'm leaving for Kona this morning for my HIM on Saturday. I'll be bib 1630. Should be fun times as there are about 10 of us from my training group racing and a few others I know of. The BT mobile site hasn't been working for me, so I may not be able to post anything here till Sunday. Best of luck to any others that are racing and keep the training up for everyone else.
Go get'em Jason! Show em the new Watts and endurance!! |
| 2013-05-31 3:17 PM in reply to: bgeyeguy |
| Master 1531 TORONTO | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group Bah!! For three weeks I've been like a kid - running to my mailbox after work to see if my new mail order wetsuit has arrived. Well today I called and they are on back order!! I won't get it until JULY!! So now I have to rent one for my next two races. Totally sucks!! Why would a company advertise all over these websites and not stock up accordingly? Buyer beware! It's funny that I have NO PROBLEMS peeing in a wetsuit but I totally don't want to wear a rented one for my race because I KNOW someone else has peed in it ha ha. Hope everyone has a great weekend of training/racing! |
| 2013-05-31 4:36 PM in reply to: sbsmann |
| Expert 1951 | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group Originally posted by sbsmann Originally posted by tri808 I'm leaving for Kona this morning for my HIM on Saturday. I'll be bib 1630. Should be fun times as there are about 10 of us from my training group racing and a few others I know of. The BT mobile site hasn't been working for me, so I may not be able to post anything here till Sunday. Best of luck to any others that are racing and keep the training up for everyone else. Good luck Jason. Just remember - don't go too fast on the bike Never mind that advice.. thrash the bike!!! I predicted an under 5 finish. |
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