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Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group CLOSED! (Page 37)
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 2013-06-05 9:15 AM in reply to: mcmanusclan5 |
Expert  1481   |  Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor GroupOriginally posted by mcmanusclan5 Originally posted by Fred D My back continues to get better! I'm riding with a friend at 6am tomorrow for 3+ hrs. Very happy about this. I've been behind on the grop due to injury and work stress so I apologize but I really want to get back to gearing.... Could EVERYONE please chime in with what gearing they run and what kind of bike split they expect to run in their next HIM? My road bike is 52/36 and 11/28 (I believe). Tri bike is 53/39 and I just switched from 11/28 to 11/25 for Sunday's tri (rolling hills - no crankers). No idea yet what my HIM split will be! Just did ~22.3mph for a 15 mile rolling hill course, but I have some work to do to figure out the longer course speeds and such. Hope your back is now completely behind you. Matt Sadly I have no idea what my gearing is even though this is my 3rd season on the bike. The LBS has a great reputation and I went with their recommendations being a newbie but I really should be better informed. My bike split will fall in the 2:39 (21 MPH) to 2:47 (20 MPH) range. It really depends on the day. If it's hot, windy and\or rainy it will be on the slower side. Best guess is I'll be right in the middle at 20.5 and 2:43. |
| 2013-06-05 10:33 AM in reply to: everlong |
Master 1531  TORONTO | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group Originally posted by everlong Sadly I have no idea what my gearing is even though this is my 3rd season on the bike. The LBS has a great reputation and I went with their recommendations being a newbie but I really should be better informed. Well I've been tri-ing since 2008 and I have no clue either. I have a really nice granny gear that I like using on big hills I use what came with my bike. And seriously - being a few pounds lighter from switching my gears isn't going to make that much difference as I'm a total bopper on the bike. This is my last week of hilly long workouts and then the taper begins. |
| 2013-06-05 12:55 PM in reply to: kimmax |
Expert 1121 Menomonee Falls, WI | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group Originally posted by kimmax Originally posted by everlong Sadly I have no idea what my gearing is even though this is my 3rd season on the bike. The LBS has a great reputation and I went with their recommendations being a newbie but I really should be better informed. Well I've been tri-ing since 2008 and I have no clue either. I have a really nice granny gear that I like using on big hills I use what came with my bike. And seriously - being a few pounds lighter from switching my gears isn't going to make that much difference as I'm a total bopper on the bike. This is my last week of hilly long workouts and then the taper begins. Yes, that definitely seems okay. However, most of the HIM plans I have seen in the past have the peak week (with most hours) about 4-5 weeks out from the event. The tapers are usually slow and gradual in decreasing hours and long workouts, but the big run (and most weekly running mileage) typically occurs about 4-5 weeks out from race date. So doing your 10-12 miler just a couple weeks before your race won't hurt, but it may be reduce your taper/rest time (depending on what kind of run mileage you are used to). That brings up a good question especially for those of us that create our own training plans. When do most people start their taper for their A HIM race and what types of reductions in hours/mileages do you subscribe to during this phase? I think the taper is often overlooked by individuals creating their own plans and I also think many people don't give the taper the importance it deserves in optimizing their A races. |
| 2013-06-05 1:24 PM in reply to: sbsmann |
Master 2500 Crab Cake City | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group I participated in the Maryland Special Olympics Torch Run yesterday and ran 15miles which is my longest run ever (2:40:00 total). I feel pretty good today although at times I am a little sore. My training plan called for 35m runs on tuesday and today so I guess you can say I went a little over board (original plan was to do 8-9miles but got carried away in the moment). Off day today and back to my normal routine and schedule tomorrow. Is it a bad thing that I deviated so far from my plan?? Anyone else ever go too far on a training day due to something fun or important? |
| 2013-06-05 1:54 PM in reply to: mcmanusclan5 |
| Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group CLOSED! Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 Jason, thanks for the comments on gearing. Helpful, indeed. Personally, I'm only on the 53/39 on my tri bike because that's what it came with (and I've only had it a couple weeks). I've been trying it in the hills, though, and it's not too bad. As for the higher gears, I don't spin out, as I'm uncomfortable with the speed using the 53/11 at about the same cadence that I'd spin out (read as, more than fast enough for me, but I do get into that gear every now and then). Might look at a mid-compact, but need more to figure it out... As for your RR (I posted to the RR itself on a general "thank you for the RR," as it was very helpful), how do you pee on the run? No, seriously? Do you just go in your kit, or do you bust out the junk on the fly? I'm not sure if that would be easier, but it's a skill I need to learn either way. Thanks! As far as the gearing, I started out with 53/39 on my tri bike because that's what it came with as well. I could make it work in most cases, but I find compact to give me more useable gears. I may miss the 53x11 for short periods of times on the downhills or areas with strong tailwinds...but usually those sections don't last that long. As for peeing on the run...honestly I'm the only person I know who does that. I don't do anything other than just let it flow. It's usually not that much...mabye 10-15 seconds worth. I could probably hold it for the rest of the race, but I figure what for if it's willing to come out. My shorts are already crusted with salt, sweat, and gawd knows what else. I'm also dumping tons of water and ice on myself so my socks and shoes are already wet. |
 2013-06-05 2:23 PM in reply to: everlong |
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| 2013-06-05 2:24 PM in reply to: tri808 |
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| 2013-06-05 2:52 PM in reply to: mcmanusclan5 |
Master 7712 Orlando | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group CLOSED! Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 Congratulations, great job!OK - back for my third and last post of the night (honest). Finished the first tri of the season this weekend past (and third since coming back to tri's after ~20 years last Fall). It was a longish sprint (0.5 / 15 / 5 miles), one I signed up for only last Wednesday, and the day after a family/local 5k (in which I placed 15 OA and 3 AG - happy with that - and the family got 3 podiums and a PR among them!). RR is here: http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/RaceLog/races-view-container.asp?raceid=248548 Not sure how to make that a link - sorry! Hot and windy (not Honu, but 20-ish), but a beautiful day, and I convinced one of my oldest/best friends to run it with me. I did far better than I expected (15 OA), with solid (for me) paces on the swim and bike (and this was the first race on the new-to-me tri bike), and an average run. Thought maybe I overdid the bike, even though it felt fine and my HR stayed at the edge of threshold (lower than I even wanted: 157 with target of 160), but I think the race the day before, the hills and the HEAT had something to do with it, too. Overall, hot and humid, but a solid result for me and a good test of fitness going into my Oly's. Didn't tell me much about the HIM coming up after them, but that's a different beast to be handled in a bit. I think I can pick up the run pace with a better taper and more fitness on the bike - so that's what I'm going to try. One side note - I was 7th in my AG. 15 OA, but 6 of them were 45-49 and 2 or 3 were 40-44. The others that beat me were in their 20's mostly. How messed up is that? Some fast old dudes around here - I have my work cut out for me!
To Mike-D - good luck at the Patriot! Just meter out the run so you don't get hurt, and enjoy the day. Matt |
| 2013-06-05 2:54 PM in reply to: kimmax |
| Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group Originally posted by kimmax Originally posted by everlong Sadly I have no idea what my gearing is even though this is my 3rd season on the bike. The LBS has a great reputation and I went with their recommendations being a newbie but I really should be better informed. Well I've been tri-ing since 2008 and I have no clue either. I have a really nice granny gear that I like using on big hills I use what came with my bike. And seriously - being a few pounds lighter from switching my gears isn't going to make that much difference as I'm a total bopper on the bike. This is my last week of hilly long workouts and then the taper begins. Are you doing a sprint this weekend with the 50 mile ride? Definately doable if you feel okay, but just wanted to make sure I wasn't mixing up the weeks. Last long run on June 12th sounds fine. The weekend before I would probably do a ride of about 2-2.5 hours. Basically whatever you feel comfortable with. You're not making any fitness gains at this point, but you're just trying to keep active. You shouldn't really feel tired or beat up after this last ride. |
| 2013-06-05 2:54 PM in reply to: tri808 |
| Master 7712 Orlando | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group CLOSED! Originally posted by tri808 Thanks, that's quite helpful.Originally posted by KateTri1 Basically the goal is to give yourself the optimal range of gears that you will use. On a hilly course, the priority becomes having enough easy gears so that you don't burn yourself out on the climbs. On flatter courses, the goal becomes to have you gears spaced much more evenly.Take the following examples.A really hilly course I would probably use a 50/34 up front and a 11/28 cassette in the rear. The reason being is that I'll likely need the 34x28 and 34x25 gear combinations to climb up the steep sections. Because the rear gears are spaced so far appart between 11 and 28, I may lose some "in between" gears, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make since climbing comfortably is much more important.A really flat course I would probably use a 50/34 with a 11/23 cassette in the rear. Without any major hills, the 34x23 gear combination should be fine for any small climbs, and having my cassette nice and "tight" allows me to have gear changes with a smaller jump. Some people think they would prefer a 53/39 crank on flat courses, but if you think about it...how often do you think you'll be riding in the 53x11 gear combination on a flat course? Most people only need that gear if they are bombing downhill. If the course is flat, there are no downhills to bomb. If I'm road racing, and I expect there to be a sprint finish on a flat section, this is the ONLY time I personally would prefer a 53/39 front and 11-26 rear. 39x26 is likely enough gearing to keep up with the pack on climbs, and I'll need the 53x11 for the sprint finish. Since most people don't road race (this is a triathlon forum), 53x11 is almost an unecessary gear unless your a really strong rider and your preferred cadence is low (like Fred).Originally posted by amd723 Ok, with all the talk about cranks and cassettes I have to ask a total bike dope question: what does it all mean? I know what the numbers represent, but how do they impact your riding. For example, I see some people say if they were riding flat races they would use x cassette or others saying a compact crank with a certain cassette is a good combo, but I don't know why those things are true. Anyone care to give me a primer on the subject?  Bumping this question because I'd to learn more about it as well. I just ride with the stock components that came with my Felt B-16. |
| 2013-06-05 3:00 PM in reply to: Fred D |
| Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group Originally posted by Fred D Count the teeth on the big and small ring in front. That will tell you the crank type. Many will actually say it on the rings.... Yes...for those that don't know what type of gearing they are currently using, please take the 2 minutes to figure it out. With the thousands of dollars you could potentially spend on equipment that makes very small differences, bike gearing is something that can actually make a HUGE difference in your racing and everyday riding. |
| 2013-06-05 3:28 PM in reply to: tri808 |
| Master 1531 TORONTO | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group Originally posted by tri808 Originally posted by kimmax Are you doing a sprint this weekend with the 50 mile ride? Definately doable if you feel okay, but just wanted to make sure I wasn't mixing up the weeks. Last long run on June 12th sounds fine. The weekend before I would probably do a ride of about 2-2.5 hours. Basically whatever you feel comfortable with. You're not making any fitness gains at this point, but you're just trying to keep active. You shouldn't really feel tired or beat up after this last ride. Originally posted by everlong Sadly I have no idea what my gearing is even though this is my 3rd season on the bike. The LBS has a great reputation and I went with their recommendations being a newbie but I really should be better informed. Well I've been tri-ing since 2008 and I have no clue either. I have a really nice granny gear that I like using on big hills I use what came with my bike. And seriously - being a few pounds lighter from switching my gears isn't going to make that much difference as I'm a total bopper on the bike. This is my last week of hilly long workouts and then the taper begins. Yes my plan is to do a sprint Saturday morning - just to get an ows in (first of the season), practice transitions and try out my new wetsuit. Then Sunday morning I will do my last long hilly bike ride. I've been rushing to get the volume in for this race so I haven't really taken a recovery week for the bike. This will be the last push and then very easy effort leading up to race day. Even the sprint - I don't think I will push too hard on the run as I want my legs somewhat fresh for the Sunday ride. |
| 2013-06-05 4:37 PM in reply to: tri808 |
| Veteran 2842 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group Originally posted by tri808 Originally posted by Fred D Count the teeth on the big and small ring in front. That will tell you the crank type. Many will actually say it on the rings.... Yes...for those that don't know what type of gearing they are currently using, please take the 2 minutes to figure it out. With the thousands of dollars you could potentially spend on equipment that makes very small differences, bike gearing is something that can actually make a HUGE difference in your racing and everyday riding. I'll guess from this, then, that you'd suggest something smaller than a 53/39. I switched my road bike to the mid-compact (I think it was mid compact rather than compact, but now I can't remember if the 52/36 was mid or "full compact") for the reasons discussed - and that by around 40mph I'm thinking about aero (and self-preservation) rather than getting faster. On the tri-bike, I'm going to plunk down for a power meter soon. I rode my road bike this morning and was just so much more into the ride and intervals with the power data (yes, I sometimes cover it up and just ride, but when I'm doing a set workout I find it incredibly helpful). So, would you suggest 52/36? Other? It's an opportunity for me to switch... I'm a reasonably strong rider, but certainly no genetic freak (at least wrt endurance sports!). iow, what works best for the fat part of the bell curve will likely work pretty dang well for me. The current tri bike gearing has worked well on a few fairly hilly rides (2,600 feet in 40 miles), but with only short sections over 10% grade, if that helps, but I'm still getting the feel of the bike. Thanks for your thoughts on it (and I'm definitely not borrowing your shoes!). Matt |
| 2013-06-05 6:31 PM in reply to: 0 |
| Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 Originally posted by tri808 Originally posted by Fred D Count the teeth on the big and small ring in front. That will tell you the crank type. Many will actually say it on the rings.... Yes...for those that don't know what type of gearing they are currently using, please take the 2 minutes to figure it out. With the thousands of dollars you could potentially spend on equipment that makes very small differences, bike gearing is something that can actually make a HUGE difference in your racing and everyday riding. I'll guess from this, then, that you'd suggest something smaller than a 53/39. I switched my road bike to the mid-compact (I think it was mid compact rather than compact, but now I can't remember if the 52/36 was mid or "full compact") for the reasons discussed - and that by around 40mph I'm thinking about aero (and self-preservation) rather than getting faster. On the tri-bike, I'm going to plunk down for a power meter soon. I rode my road bike this morning and was just so much more into the ride and intervals with the power data (yes, I sometimes cover it up and just ride, but when I'm doing a set workout I find it incredibly helpful). So, would you suggest 52/36? Other? It's an opportunity for me to switch... I'm a reasonably strong rider, but certainly no genetic freak (at least wrt endurance sports!). iow, what works best for the fat part of the bell curve will likely work pretty dang well for me. The current tri bike gearing has worked well on a few fairly hilly rides (2,600 feet in 40 miles), but with only short sections over 10% grade, if that helps, but I'm still getting the feel of the bike. Thanks for your thoughts on it (and I'm definitely not borrowing your shoes!). Matt What is your preferred cadence? ETA: what type of cassette are you using with your standard crank and how is that working for you? Do you ever wish you had an extra easy gear or an extra hard gear? Edited by tri808 2013-06-05 6:39 PM |
| 2013-06-05 9:13 PM in reply to: tri808 |
| Extreme Veteran 377 Ogallala, Nebraska | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group I'm over halfway done with the Bike Ride Across Nebraska and I've learned a lot. First I am not a tour bike riding kind of person. I've been riding my road bike and its not nearly as pleasant as riding my tri bike. I also am still trying to figure out my gearing. It's a compact crank and I've been struggling to get the gearing where I want it. I'm used to my 53/39 and 11-25 on the Tri bike. It also hasn't helped for the first 200 miles I've been basically riding into the wind. Today I finally got my cadence close to what I am comfortable with and wasn't fighting the wind. I still wish I had the setup I'm used to but it's getting better. Only about 200 miles left to go. |
| 2013-06-06 8:52 AM in reply to: Fred D |
| Veteran 1677 Houston, Texas | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group Originally posted by Fred D My back continues to get better! I'm riding with a friend at 6am tomorrow for 3+ hrs. Very happy about this. I've been behind on the grop due to injury and work stress so I apologize but I really want to get back to gearing.... Could EVERYONE please chime in with what gearing they run and what kind of bike split they expect to run in their next HIM? Okay, so I finally figured out what my current gearing is. I have a 50/34 and 12/25. It's always been fine for me for flat/windy rides that are typical of where I live. Unfortunately, there are very few places around here to do any amount of climbing (without traveling multiple hours), so I honestly have no idea if that gearing is sufficient for the HIM I'm doing (Vineman in CA). I'm shooting for a sub-3 hour bike split -- I know that's more than doable for the types of conditions I train in, but I don't know if it's overly ambitious with rolling hills and a couple actual climbs. This weekend I'll be riding some rolling hills (IMTX course) but I suspect the gearing should be fine for that and still have no idea of what it'll be like for real hills! Anyone with more experience have any thoughts? Is it pretty much impossible to tell without having done any rides on real hills? |
| 2013-06-06 10:25 AM in reply to: Fred D |
| Member 84 | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group Originally posted by Fred D My back continues to get better! I'm riding with a friend at 6am tomorrow for 3+ hrs. Very happy about this. I've been behind on the grop due to injury and work stress so I apologize but I really want to get back to gearing.... Could EVERYONE please chime in with what gearing they run and what kind of bike split they expect to run in their next HIM? Glad to hear your back is improving! Back trouble is no fun, been there, I feel your pain! I've been pain free for 8-9 years, there is light at the end of the tunnel! I'm running a 50/34 with an 11/25 on my P2c, tried the 12/25 it came with & hated it! I'm shooting for a 2:45 or better this weekend in KS, I'm pretty confident, I'm used to hills (I usually hit 1500-2000' in a 15-25 mile ride from home) & the winds for training this year have been a bear! Is anybody else in this group doing KS this weekend? If you are I'd love to meet some fellow BTers. Tim |
| 2013-06-06 11:48 AM in reply to: mcmanusclan5 |
| Master 3195 Just South of Boston | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group CLOSED! Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 (edit/snip....) To Mike-D - good luck at the Patriot! Just meter out the run so you don't get hurt, and enjoy the day. Matt Thanks! I'm prepping mentally for a conservative race, and to keep inside the box I set for the race. Someone posted earlier about leaving ego at the starting line, and as tough as it seems, thats what I'm planning on. The first 2 legs should be good, and the third will be a nice catered training run with a bunch of other folks and spectators. Can't wait to feel the finish. Appreciate the input from everyone on this!! Mike |
| 2013-06-06 5:19 PM in reply to: Mike_D |
| Extreme Veteran 377 Ogallala, Nebraska | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group CLOSED! I should have also mentioned that now my ride is solo. My wife had a minor crash that messed up her shifter but more importantly, banged up her knee. Of course it was the one that was just fixed. She decided not to risk further damage to it and dropped out. Today I took the ride serious and cranked out the miles with limited stops at the aid stations. I did have to stop twice to fill water bottles. My time including stops for the first 56 miles was 3:50. That's now my benchmark. I still did 20 more miles to finish the leg but now I know where I'm at on a HIM distance. I made sure not to toast my legs and feel good tonight. We are right at 350 miles done with 120 or so left. |
| 2013-06-06 5:40 PM in reply to: stevesflyshop |
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| 2013-06-06 5:41 PM in reply to: BigAirT |
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| 2013-06-06 7:51 PM in reply to: ligersandtions |
| Regular 673 SF Bay area | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group Originally posted by ligersandtions Unfortunately, there are very few places around here to do any amount of climbing (without traveling multiple hours), so I honestly have no idea if that gearing is sufficient for the HIM I'm doing (Vineman in CA). Anyone with more experience have any thoughts? Is it pretty much impossible to tell without having done any rides on real hills? Nicole, I just rode the course again today, so feeling a bit more comfortable about it. Last time I rode it with a 53/39 x 12/25 and was fine with it. There were only a few places I had to gear all the way down (top of Canyon and Chalk Hill come to mind) but was able to grind up it OK. Since then I've upgraded to a 12/27 and didn't need the 27 at all today. I don't have the experience to comment on how different it will be since you have a 34 on the front instead of the 39, but I'm sure someone can chime in and fill in that gap. Training today called for 3:30 on the bike @ PRE2 followed by 20 min run@ PRE 2. Day didn't quite work out according to plan. Talked by cycling/running buddy Paul into joining me. He's great in both disciplines and pushes me. So we start out and he gets 2 flats in the first 2 miles; the second a blowout that sounded like a gunshot, blew the tire off the rim and split the tube down the seam. At this point we've used up most of our repair supplies so decide the better part of valor is to head to the LBS to resupply, then do a restart. We were riding most of the Vineman 70.3 course, the same as I did two weeks ago, and I told him he was welcome to draft behind me but I really didn't want to draft off him so I could get a better approximation of the course and my fitness. He was fine with that, but it didn't mean he was going to slow down when he was out front. As a result, ended up with an average HR @ Z4.4 according to my Garmin with a max at Z5.8. Sounds like I need to redo the LT test perhaps. The good news is that at mile 56 the clock was right at 3 hours, so looks like my goal is not completely unrealistic. Found the hills to be easier this time. Total ride came in at 3:03 for 57 miles (excluding the dual flat aborted attempt, with that got the 3:30). Then we transitioned to the run which I want to do in Overall a good day of training. Much higher level of effort than was called for, but was a good confidence builder. |
| 2013-06-06 10:57 PM in reply to: 0 |
| Regular 673 SF Bay area | Subject: RE: Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group As I tried to explain above: "Then we transitioned to the run which I want to do in", but apparently I am technology challenged and erased the rest of the paragraph. So to continue - Then we transitioned to the run which I want to do in a time in a time <2 hours which means an average pace of something under 9:00/mile. Paul and I are both competitive, so today's run actually came in at a 7:53 average pace. I saw this happening during the run, but wanted to see how long I could keep it going as a test of fitness and bike nutrition/hydration. Mile splits went 8:07/7:53/7:30, so felt pretty good about it on all fronts. Not quite PRE level 2, but good results nonetheless. The HR monitor acted funny for the first time since I got the Polar strap to use with the Garmin and actually recorded low for the first 4 minutes of the run (unheard of!), but after that captured data correctly and showed my HR went from 153-169. I was pretty happy with that considering the pace and the fact it was after the ride, but I now need to focus on keeping it below 160 for as long as possible, knowing in the final miles the target likely will rise to 170. Is it too early to start praying for cool weather in mid-July in the Napa Valley? EDIT: WTH? It cut off all words past the same point AGAIN? Am I typing in some secret code? Will try again . . . Hmm, same thing happened. Will try putting it in a new paragraph. Edited by TTom 2013-06-06 11:07 PM |
| 2013-06-07 5:40 AM in reply to: TTom |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2013-06-07 5:45 AM in reply to: 0 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. Edited by Fred D 2013-06-07 5:46 AM |
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