Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed (Page 38)

Basically you have it right.  I use 3s power, but 10s power can be good for much longer steady efforts.  You probably will put a little more power uphill and into the wind as compared to downhill and with the wind.  I usually keep an eye on NP to see how I'm doing as my routes usually involve a good amount of turns and coasting that impacts average power.  On race day it's much easier to keep average power closer to NP because there aren't any red lights or stop signs and you don't have to come to a stop to refill bottles.

Originally posted by GoldenSprocket Ok, so a follow up to the Garmin question. I realize power is not the only consideration RPE, wind, heat etc. all play a role in effort. But for arguments sake let's say I'm doing a HIM type 3 hour ride targeting 85% of FTP. Do you look at your 3s/10s avg. and try to keep it in a range say 82 to 88%. Allowing a little more for uphills and a bit less for downhills? Or is keeping an eye on total NP or even lap NP more important? Trying to get the most out of these expensive toys I had to have.

I know you said your (outside) FTP may have gone up, but 85% is pretty aggressive for most AG'ers.  Personally, I wouldn't be targeting a percent of FTP if I wasn't reasonably sure it was an accurate number.  That said, if you've done a number of long rides (3.5 - 4 hours) with some running after (20 - 40 minutes) targeting a specific power and felt fine, it may all work out.

I try to keep my power within a pretty narrow range when I'm riding on the flats.  I'll elevate it a little for uphill sections or if I need to in order to pass legally.  I do whatever I can to keep it at or below threshold for these excursions (analyzing my last race, my best one minute power was still below threshold, I believe).  In the case that I get off the bike feeling "too fresh", that just means I can run a little faster.  I'm a very mediocre runner, but still believe a conservatively paced bike will result in a better overall time.

Honestly, I keep an eye on 3/10s power, NP, and AP all pretty equally.  For racing, I don't worry too much about lap power or lap NP or lap whatever, because the things that'll kill you (me) are too high of power overall and too high VI (large difference between NP and AP).

I think it's safe to say summer humidity is here (and probably to stay).  The heat's not quite here yet....getting hot, but not yet miserable.  The forecast was calling for thunderstorms to start rolling through at 8:30am and basically go all day and into tomorrow morning, so I switched my long run to today in hopes that the storms will pass and I can do my long ride tomorrow without dodging lightning. 

I was supposed to run 85 minutes, but it was getting ugly only 30 minutes in.  I took off at 6:30am -- it was 78F and probably 100% humidity.  I actually brought a water bottle with me since I knew I would sweat a lot....I was really contemplating pulling the plug but kept reminding myself that I wouldn't just quit if I was having a bad day in a race, right?!?!  Anyways, I eventually did shut it down about an hour in (and had to walk 30 minutes back to my house) with the plan to hop on the treadmill later in the day, after rehydrating.  I got on the scale and managed to lose three pounds (2.5% of my body weight) in an hour of running, and that was with drinking about 20oz of water.

Treadmill run was a million times better than my "long" run this morning.  Oh, and the irony of this whole thing?  It's freaking sunny out, no storms at all -- Nicole is not amused.  It will probably be stormy and crummy tomorrow....and I'll probably be riding in it because I'm stubborn and "punishing" myself for making a poor decision this morning. 

Same thing here in South Alabama.  Headed out on a group ride at 6:00am yesterday and humidity was oppressive.  Got back to the shop for the usual 7:30am shop ride and was dripping wet......summertime kind of sweating. This morning the windows are fogged up  at the house so I  can only imagine it is really humid out. Ugh...well it is only 5-6 months until we get a break.  

Going to try an easy run today and see how  my right knee does.  It has felt good since the cortisone shot but I have stuck to the elliptical for my "run"workouts.  Time to test it a little bit and see where things stand. 

No rain this morning when I got up, radar looked good....so I drove 30 minutes from the house to do some aero testing.  It was super humid out and the ground was wet from rain throughout the night, but I figured I could make it work.  Of course, part way through my warm-up, it started raining....but I checked the radar and it still wasn't showing much, so I figured it would pass.  An hour and a half later, I was thoroughly over it....drove home and set my bike up on the trainer.

You win some, you lose some -- I lost twice this weekend.  Hopefully I'll win a couple times next weekend

I have the older version of the Flo 60/90 and am really happy with them.  Solid wheels and very fast.

For an extra $100 or so, get a rear disc cover for some extra speed.

Well...since we are talking about aches and pains I have a few new ones.  Had a wreck on our group ride tonight.  It is a "social ride" so nothing crazy other than one short segment  where everyone gets frisky.  We weren't hitting it hard tonight and all of a sudden a couple of guys broke.  I was mid pack and next thing I know I am sliding across the road.  Left side got scraped up on my upper arm and knee area but nothing major...just some road rash and a big bruise where I must have landed on my outer left thigh.  No helmet contact with the pavement.  Ruined a nice jersey and put a hole in my favorite bibs.  I suspect tomorrow will be tough.  I will be "stove up" as we say in the south. 

There were 3 of us that went down and I have no idea what happened but I think my rear wheel got clipped given how I went down and the direction.  Girl that went down cracked her helmet and was shaken up but getting reports she is ok.  Amazing how fast these things happen.  

Front end of bike was knocked out of alignment but hopefully it can just be straightened out and nothing got too torqued out. 

Stay safe out there!

Cadence is an interesting thing.  When I first started riding, I was told to make sure I was spinning at a cadence of at least 90, so I did.  This became comfortable to me.  And then I started reading things like, "cadence is self-selected" or "there is no ideal cadence for every person and every distance", so I continued riding at a cadence of around 90 because it was comfortable for me. 

Every once in a while, I would do an interval at a "low cadence" because I lacked the gearing to have it in my ideal 90-something range....and by low cadence, I mean anything that was 80-something, so not particularly low.

In my build up to Pucon 70.3, I had some workout that called for X minutes at a HR of 140 (without having power displayed on the screen, but still capturing it -- no peeking!!) with one interval at a cadence of 90, one at 80, 70, 60, and 50.  First time doing this ride, I knew for sure that my 90 cadence was going to give me the best power....and I was completely wrong! 

In playing with it more, I found that high cadence is comfortable while doing low power (warm-up, rest intervals, leisurely sections of group rides) and low-80's is comfortable for threshold and VO2 work (as comfortable as one can be doing threshold or VO2 work).  Lower cadence may result in lower HR, but at some point, my muscles fatigue too much and it's no longer beneficial for me.  So I've found my new self-selected cadence to be generally in the low-80's....and I can run off it as well, so I'm pretty happy where I am. 

Funny that four years of thinking I was doing a "self-selected" cadence of 90-95 was erased in a few short weeks!

I don't pay attention to cadence at all while riding.  I just shift when it feels appropriate.  Once in a while I do try to work on cadence in a sense that I will spin at a higher or lower cadence than what I normally would, but I don't actually target a specific number high or low.  Looking at my data after the fact, in general, I'm a lower cadence rider...usually in the 80-85 range for longer efforts...sometimes dipping into the high 70's if I'm climbing.  During a group ride when the gas is on though...I'll usually come up into the 90's.

This is really well stated and makes sense to me: "The force is what is self selected not cadence We end up selecting the maximal cadence at the self selected optimal force."  The force we apply is really what dictates our cadence....and we all have that "just right" combination of force and cadence. Interesting discussion.

I really do not pay alot of attention to cadence  other than to look at it post ride.  When riding by myself or on the rollers I am almost always in the 88-91 range.   Typically a little higher in a race.  I have done low cadence high resistance sets before and it is interesting to see how that feels as compared to my self selected norm,

Jason-the right knee feels good.  Went down on my left side and my left "good knee" got scraped up a bit but nothing serious.  Good report on the bike as well.  Scuffs on the saddle and left shifter/brake hood.  Steerer tube survived and frame and wheels look OK. I really wanted to  go out and ride this morning with the group as this is likely our last cool set  of mornings.  But, I just felt that it was going to be too much work to convince my wife that I am fine.   So, guess I will spin in the garage to shake things out.

We've been enjoying some cooler, less humid weather as well.  It looks like it should be back to normal on Monday, so I'm enjoying it while I can!  Probably should have run today since tomorrow's going to be a little warmer, but my work week was a bit crazy, forcing me to push my track run to yesterday, so figured a long run the day after a track run would be a bad idea

I did ride this morning....did some aero testing with some HIM efforts and some threshold (40k TT) efforts in there.  RPE was completely out of sync with HR and power.  Everything felt harder than it should have, but since power and HR were in line, I told my brain to ignore my legs and hold my power targets.  May be due to the track run last night or may have just been a weird day.  But I'm happy to report that my legs obeyed!

Anyone racing this weekend?  Or have good training on tap?

Mine are very, very similar.  I find threshold efforts to be slightly more manageable on the trainer than outside (I think it's partly mental, in that I have to have some bandwidth available for avoiding potholes, dogs, cars, other riders, etc. outside, while I can just bury my face in the stem inside), but long HIM to sweet spot efforts to be easier outside since I can tolerate (and even want) the mental distractions. 

I have a 40k TT coming up next month and am hoping to validate my FTP setting.  It's a (mostly) closed course on a smooth section of road, so should require too much more bandwidth than would be necessary on the trainer.