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Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me? (Page 4)
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 2008-01-04 4:09 PM in reply to: #1134364 |
Expert  864    Village of Lakewood, Illinois Silver member |  Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me?wildee - 2008-01-04 3:39 PM run4yrlif - 2008-01-04 3:13 PM AddysDaddy - 2008-01-04 3:50 PM wildee - 2008-01-04 2:39 PM wurkit_gurl - 2008-01-04 2:17 PM You seem to be quite fond of making unsubstantiated statements. When has our government, GWB or anybody else tried legislating religious morality? They might legislate ideas or concepts that stem from religion but I am sure that you yourself have done that unless you are in favor of murder being legal. Where do our murder laws essentially come from? Doesn't the Bible condem that activity?. You can certainly disagree with religious concepts and practicies but to say that religious individuals are to separate their political views from their religious ones is really not possible and I think the suggestion that people do that is what is intolerant.Bripod - 2008-01-04 3:10 PM wurkit_gurl - 2008-01-04 1:16 PM Call me too tolerant for a Christian, but politics and religion do not mix well and I would prefer that it stayed that way. Sounds pretty intolerant to me that you think we should keep religion out of politics. And I'm still waiting for you to substantiate the claim that we bombed someone in the name of Jesus.
Sorry, I don't understand how allowing freedom of religion is intolerant. Having a government attempting to legislate a certain religion's morality violates that freedom. I can see that Murder is wrong without religion. My State Government passed a law to have prayer in school. It is being fought in the court right now. Though this year my child has to pray/moment of silence everyday before classes start. Sooooooo.....ah nevermind Plus...there's has been a big governmental effort to stop teaching evolution, and to include creation-based curriculum in science classes. If that's not legislation based on religion, then I don't know what is. IMHO I believe that evolution and it's government mandate of it's teaching is itself legislating religion. At the root of evolution is the belief that there is no god and hence the big bang, etc which is an opinion about god making it a form of religion. Yes I know that some forms of evolution belief include a god and the earths origin but that's not what I'm talking about so save those posts. Your comment that there's an effort to stop teaching evolution and to include creation-based curriculum is a contradictory statement. Is the movement to ban evolution teaching or to include creation-based curriculum because those are not one in the same. Besides, isn't it intolerant to support the model that has been in existance for decades of evolution being taught in school as the way things are when a vast portion of the population support creationism. If you lefties are tolerant, why wouldn't you support teaching both points of view? Lefties?? Hahahaha
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| 2008-01-04 4:14 PM in reply to: #1134484 |
Expert 864 Village of Lakewood, Illinois Silver member | Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me? pinktrigal - 2008-01-04 4:08 PM marmadaddy - 2008-01-04 4:46 PM wildee - 2008-01-04 4:39 PM At the root of evolution is the belief that there is no god ... This is extremely inaccurate in it's depiction of both evolution and the beliefs of many devout people. I invite you to learn about the position of the Catholic Church on evolution for starters. No offense, but the Catholic Church's idea of "ensoulment" is largely debated too. I think he is correct in the perception of evolution as being godless. In all honesty, I think the bible is pretty clear that God created humans in His likeness, not in the likeness of an ameoba or ape. Just my $.02. Your stance is there can be no other explaination. Again your opinions are hard to listen too. It is like me saying that the science book clearly states that thier is only evolution. No other opines count. My .02 |
| 2008-01-04 4:15 PM in reply to: #1134484 |
| Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me? pinktrigal - 2008-01-04 5:08 PM marmadaddy - 2008-01-04 4:46 PM wildee - 2008-01-04 4:39 PM At the root of evolution is the belief that there is no god ... This is extremely inaccurate in it's depiction of both evolution and the beliefs of many devout people. I invite you to learn about the position of the Catholic Church on evolution for starters. No offense, but the Catholic Church's idea of "ensoulment" is largely debated too. I think he is correct in the perception of evolution as being godless. In all honesty, I think the bible is pretty clear that God created humans in His likeness, not in the likeness of an ameoba or ape. Just my $.02.
And this is where the detractors get it wrong. Evolution does NOT say that we came from apes. Evolution proves that we are most closely related to apes, in that we have the most similar genetic make-up. Evolution has actually NOT proven that there is a direct step from apes to man (from what I've read anyway, but scientists, please feel free to weigh in)), only that we are very similar in the genetic materials that formed us. Go read 'Case for a Creator' - they give a pretty decent explanation of how this idea fits into Christianity and it's really not that far-fetched, if you believe in God. |
| 2008-01-04 4:20 PM in reply to: #1134482 |
Expert 1357 Mukwonago, WI | Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me? wurkit_gurl - 2008-01-04 4:08 PM I trust that if I pull my kids from public school then that you are in favor of my family receiving a credit for my property taxes that go to support the government mandated teaching of evolution to my kids. In light of mandated taxing to support this false teaching doesn't make our country free.Interesting how you avoided my tolerance question and how tolerance demands teaching both in school.Also, here is a definition of religion from dictionary.com:"a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs. "When schools teach evolution neglecting the teaching of creation to me that is expressing a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature and purpose of the universe... You bet evolution is at least a teaching that has religious implications despite whether you believe in creationism or are an atheist which to me is intolerant.wildee - 2008-01-04 4:39 PM [ IMHO I believe that evolution and it's government mandate of it's teaching is itself legislating religion. At the root of evolution is the belief that there is no god and hence the big bang, etc which is an opinion about god making it a form of religion. Yes I know that some forms of evolution belief include a god and the earths origin but that's not what I'm talking about so save those posts. Your comment that there's an effort to stop teaching evolution and to include creation-based curriculum is a contradictory statement. Is the movement to ban evolution teaching or to include creation-based curriculum because those are not one in the same. Besides, isn't it intolerant to support the model that has been in existance for decades of evolution being taught in school as the way things are when a vast portion of the population support creationism. If you lefties are tolerant, why wouldn't you support teaching both points of view?
Evolution is not a "religious" belief any more than Shakespeare, or basketball or math. And I don't recall any of my science teachers starting out the conversation with "There is NO God, class, and that's why we evolved from monkeys". Besides, if you don't want your kids to learn about evolution, send them to a private Christian school. No one is forcing you to send your kids to public school. Once again, the beauty of a free country. |
| 2008-01-04 4:20 PM in reply to: #1134484 |
Arch-Bishop of BT 10278 Pittsburgh | Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me? pinktrigal - 2008-01-04 5:08 PM marmadaddy - 2008-01-04 4:46 PM wildee - 2008-01-04 4:39 PM At the root of evolution is the belief that there is no god ... This is extremely inaccurate in it's depiction of both evolution and the beliefs of many devout people. I invite you to learn about the position of the Catholic Church on evolution for starters. No offense, but the Catholic Church's idea of "ensoulment" is largely debated too. I think he is correct in the perception of evolution as being godless. In all honesty, I think the bible is pretty clear that God created humans in His likeness, not in the likeness of an ameoba or ape. Just my $.02. That is of course if you believe that the imago dei is linked to physical appearance and form. To be created in the image of God could mean many things... and your answer presupposes a literal reading of Genesis, which many Christians do not hold to. Primarily I understand it to indicate that human beings are partners and stewards of God's creation... Mike's comment about the Catholic Church made me think of the idea that JPII indicated... truth does not contradict truth. Evolution does not give a problem to a believer, as long as the prime mover in the picture is God. Peace, |
| 2008-01-04 4:21 PM in reply to: #1134504 |
Master 1420 Running trails in S. Ontario | Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me? AddysDaddy - 2008-01-04 5:14 PM pinktrigal - 2008-01-04 4:08 PM marmadaddy - 2008-01-04 4:46 PM wildee - 2008-01-04 4:39 PM At the root of evolution is the belief that there is no god ... This is extremely inaccurate in it's depiction of both evolution and the beliefs of many devout people. I invite you to learn about the position of the Catholic Church on evolution for starters. No offense, but the Catholic Church's idea of "ensoulment" is largely debated too. I think he is correct in the perception of evolution as being godless. In all honesty, I think the bible is pretty clear that God created humans in His likeness, not in the likeness of an ameoba or ape. Just my $.02. Your stance is there can be no other explaination. Again your opinions are hard to listen too. It is like me saying that the science book clearly states that thier is only evolution. No other opines count. My .02 Ummm, this is a public forum for opinions? Guess it is more tolerable when they are in line with your views. I was simply stating a point on creationism as it has been taught to me using biblical reference. All views are valid for discussion. |
| 2008-01-04 4:25 PM in reply to: #1134524 |
Expert 864 Village of Lakewood, Illinois Silver member | Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me? pinktrigal - 2008-01-04 4:21 PM AddysDaddy - 2008-01-04 5:14 PM pinktrigal - 2008-01-04 4:08 PM marmadaddy - 2008-01-04 4:46 PM wildee - 2008-01-04 4:39 PM At the root of evolution is the belief that there is no god ... This is extremely inaccurate in it's depiction of both evolution and the beliefs of many devout people. I invite you to learn about the position of the Catholic Church on evolution for starters. No offense, but the Catholic Church's idea of "ensoulment" is largely debated too. I think he is correct in the perception of evolution as being godless. In all honesty, I think the bible is pretty clear that God created humans in His likeness, not in the likeness of an ameoba or ape. Just my $.02. Your stance is there can be no other explaination. Again your opinions are hard to listen too. It is like me saying that the science book clearly states that thier is only evolution. No other opines count. My .02 Ummm, this is a public forum for opinions? Guess it is more tolerable when they are in line with your views. I was simply stating a point on creationism as it has been taught to me using biblical reference. All views are valid for discussion. NM
Edited by AddysDaddy 2008-01-04 4:27 PM |
| 2008-01-04 4:29 PM in reply to: #1134487 |
Master 1641 Seattle, California | Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me? wildee - 2008-01-04 2:08 PM marmadaddy - 2008-01-04 3:46 PM That's a fair statement but I doubt the Catholic Church's support of the co-existance of creationism and evolution is the version that is being taught in public schools which was the contradiction I was pointing out of a mandated, intolerant government stance.wildee - 2008-01-04 4:39 PM At the root of evolution is the belief that there is no god ... This is extremely inaccurate in it's depiction of both evolution and the beliefs of many devout people. I invite you to learn about the position of the Catholic Church on evolution for starters. I don't see how it is the pubic schools responsibility to teach the catholic version of creationism/evolution. Or even mention what the catholic church does or does not support. In a pubic school your teaching is and should be purely secular. If you want to have religion brought into the discussion then you go to a religious school. |
| 2008-01-04 4:29 PM in reply to: #1133871 |
Champion 5495 Whizzzzzlandia Silver member | Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me? Global - 2008-01-04 12:50 PM Didn't GW get elected because people thought he a was down to earth regular joe? I don't understand why people want someone who is a regular Joe in the white house. I would want someone serious how knows what is going on and isn't going to mess up my country and the rest of the world. You are electing the president of the most powerful country on the planet who cares if he appears to be middle class. None of the people running actually are middle class and this is a serious job. If you think he is competent that is one thing but to elect someone because they are appear to be a regular joe seems ridiculous to me. Jeez. My thoughts exactly. Exactly. Some people (myself included) admired "W"s down to earth qualities, his candor, his ability to laugh at himself, and all that crap. I'm looking for someone more polished these days. Someone with a good head on his (or her) shoulders. Well educated, good decision-maker, well spoken, someone who can string words together into coherent sentences and have the tough discussions with other heads of state. I'm finished with the "regular guy". I want a leader. I want a PRESIDENT. Regular Joe sits next to me at work, and he's not the guy I want steering this country. I'm still evaluating these candidates, but I'm been leaning toward Obama.... |
| 2008-01-04 4:31 PM in reply to: #1134550 |
Pro 4339 Husker Nation | Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me? Global - 2008-01-04 4:29 PM I don't see how it is the pubic schools responsibility to teach the catholic version of creationism/evolution. Or even mention what the catholic church does or does not support. In a pubic school your teaching is and should be purely secular. If you want to have religion brought into the discussion then you go to a religious school. Something like 123 out of the first 125 universities in this country were started because of Christianity. No thanks, Christians, we want our schools purely secular! |
| 2008-01-04 4:32 PM in reply to: #1132540 |
Pro 4339 Husker Nation | Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me? Bah- you made me forget why I came back into this mess: http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-243-297--12393-0,00.html If you want an explanation about [part of] Mike Huckabee. *forgot to close my tag.  Edited by Bripod 2008-01-04 4:32 PM |
| 2008-01-04 4:32 PM in reply to: #1134333 |
Master 2701 Salisbury, North Carolina | Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me? emac21 - 2008-01-04 4:26 PM The one thing we talk about as a country is our hatred for these religious fanatics that run other countries...well, I guess we are joining the club. Huckabee, a religious fanatic ?? Are you comparing him to say, Ahmadenijad (sp?), or some other Middle Eastern fanatic leader ? Pls. tell me you're not. |
| 2008-01-04 4:33 PM in reply to: #1132540 |
Expert 1244 New York | Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me? Why in the world would the concept of God NEED to be included in scientific research at all? What if we started to teach children that the earth is the center of our universe as an alternate "theory" simply because Galileo did not reference God in his observations? It is actually because Galileo pushed aside long held beliefs and relied purely on his powers of observation that we came to learn that the sun did not revolve around us! I think that's a pretty amazing feat. This does not mean Galileo was saying there was no God. He was just saying, look, even though the bible may say it, it just ain't so. Evolution and most scientific theories are based on research and observation. Religion has nothing to do with it and shouldn't have anything to do with it. Just because it might bother you ideologically that a scientific theory does not mention God and thus clashes with your religious beliefs, that in and of itself does not negate the theory! The theory of evolution is still just a theory, but it's the best one we got. And when we come up against questions that confound us (because, um, biology and life are relatively complex topics), simply saying "well, God did it" doesn't really cut it for me. That's not a theory. It's an opinion. It's...almost like giving up on our own power to understand the world. |
| 2008-01-04 4:34 PM in reply to: #1134516 |
Master 1641 Seattle, California | Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me? wildee - 2008-01-04 2:20 PM wurkit_gurl - 2008-01-04 4:08 PM I trust that if I pull my kids from public school then that you are in favor of my family receiving a credit for my property taxes that go to support the government mandated teaching of evolution to my kids. wildee - 2008-01-04 4:39 PM [ IMHO I believe that evolution and it's government mandate of it's teaching is itself legislating religion. At the root of evolution is the belief that there is no god and hence the big bang, etc which is an opinion about god making it a form of religion. Yes I know that some forms of evolution belief include a god and the earths origin but that's not what I'm talking about so save those posts. Your comment that there's an effort to stop teaching evolution and to include creation-based curriculum is a contradictory statement. Is the movement to ban evolution teaching or to include creation-based curriculum because those are not one in the same. Besides, isn't it intolerant to support the model that has been in existance for decades of evolution being taught in school as the way things are when a vast portion of the population support creationism. If you lefties are tolerant, why wouldn't you support teaching both points of view?
Evolution is not a "religious" belief any more than Shakespeare, or basketball or math. And I don't recall any of my science teachers starting out the conversation with "There is NO God, class, and that's why we evolved from monkeys". Besides, if you don't want your kids to learn about evolution, send them to a private Christian school. No one is forcing you to send your kids to public school. Once again, the beauty of a free country. I don't have any children, where is my credit for me paying for your kids to go to school? The government provides basic services if you don't like those and want to send your kids somewhere else you can do that. I don't see where you should be exempt from paying for the government system just because you choose to send your kids somewhere else. Edited by Global 2008-01-04 4:36 PM |
| 2008-01-04 4:35 PM in reply to: #1134579 |
Expert 864 Village of Lakewood, Illinois Silver member | Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me? swishyskirt - 2008-01-04 4:33 PM Why in the world would the concept of God NEED to be included in scientific research at all? What if we started to teach children that the earth is the center of our universe as an alternate "theory" simply because Galileo did not reference God in his observations? It is actually because Galileo pushed aside long held beliefs and relied purely on his powers of observation that we came to learn that the sun did not revolve around us! I think that's a pretty amazing feat. This does not mean Galileo was saying there was no God. He was just saying, look, even though the bible may say it, it just ain't so. Evolution and most scientific theories are based on research and observation. Religion has nothing to do with it and shouldn't have anything to do with it. Just because it might bother you ideologically that a scientific theory does not mention God and thus clashes with your religious beliefs, that in and of itself does not negate the theory! The theory of evolution is still just a theory, but it's the best one we got. And when we come up against questions that confound us (because, um, biology and life are relatively complex topics), simply saying "well, God did it" doesn't really cut it for me. That's not a theory. It's an opinion. It's...almost like giving up on our own power to understand the world. nice... |
| 2008-01-04 4:37 PM in reply to: #1134567 |
Master 1641 Seattle, California | Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me? Bripod - 2008-01-04 2:31 PM Global - 2008-01-04 4:29 PM Something like 123 out of the first 125 universities in this country were started because of Christianity. No thanks, Christians, we want our schools purely secular!
I don't see how it is the pubic schools responsibility to teach the catholic version of creationism/evolution. Or even mention what the catholic church does or does not support. In a pubic school your teaching is and should be purely secular. If you want to have religion brought into the discussion then you go to a religious school. So you are saying without Christianity there would be 2 universities? seriously? |
| 2008-01-04 4:38 PM in reply to: #1134468 |
Champion 6056 Menomonee Falls, WI | Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me? wurkit_gurl - 2008-01-04 4:05 PM run4yrlif - 2008-01-04 4:13 PM AddysDaddy - 2008-01-04 3:50 PM wildee - 2008-01-04 2:39 PM wurkit_gurl - 2008-01-04 2:17 PM You seem to be quite fond of making unsubstantiated statements. When has our government, GWB or anybody else tried legislating religious morality? They might legislate ideas or concepts that stem from religion but I am sure that you yourself have done that unless you are in favor of murder being legal. Where do our murder laws essentially come from? Doesn't the Bible condem that activity?. You can certainly disagree with religious concepts and practicies but to say that religious individuals are to separate their political views from their religious ones is really not possible and I think the suggestion that people do that is what is intolerant.Bripod - 2008-01-04 3:10 PM wurkit_gurl - 2008-01-04 1:16 PM Call me too tolerant for a Christian, but politics and religion do not mix well and I would prefer that it stayed that way. Sounds pretty intolerant to me that you think we should keep religion out of politics. And I'm still waiting for you to substantiate the claim that we bombed someone in the name of Jesus.
Sorry, I don't understand how allowing freedom of religion is intolerant. Having a government attempting to legislate a certain religion's morality violates that freedom. I can see that Murder is wrong without religion. My State Government passed a law to have prayer in school. It is being fought in the court right now. Though this year my child has to pray/moment of silence everyday before classes start. Sooooooo.....ah nevermind Plus...there's has been a big governmental effort to stop teaching evolution, and to include creation-based curriculum in science classes. If that's not legislation based on religion, then I don't know what is. Thank you, to the last two points. Trying to pass laws to ban abortion, stem cell research and shooting down laws trying to legalize gay marriage, all because "the Bible says it's wrong"; do I need to continue? And this has nothing to do with my stance or anyone's stance on these issues. Point is. My neighbor does not necessarily have the same religious beliefs and in this country, that is okay. So who am I or anyone else to try to impose my religious mores on him/her through law? Sorry, but that's total crap. Theocracies do not work - take a look at other parts of the world. And this country is slowly creeping towards that end - ironic for a country that was originally settled by those escaping religious persecution... Wo,wo, wo... who says the arguments against abortion and stem cell research are necessarily tied to religion? I would argue against them both on a human rights basis. I, for instance, simply believe that life begins when the DNA combines, not necessarily because of a religious belief. I simply believe your rights end where another's begins, and both those issues impact another individual's life and rights. That could also be argued (convincingly) on a legal basis. So that has nothing to do with anyone trying to "force their religion" on you through law. |
| 2008-01-04 4:38 PM in reply to: #1134484 |
Regular 109 Rehab with Brittney | Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me? pinktrigal - 2008-01-04 4:08 PM No offense, but the Catholic Church's idea of "ensoulment" is largely debated too. I think he is correct in the perception of evolution as being godless. In all honesty, I think the bible is pretty clear that God created humans in His likeness, not in the likeness of an ameoba or ape. Just my $.02. Most people don't interpret the old testament literally. If that were the case, then I would also believe that Abraham lived to 175 years old and had a child at 100 years old with a wife who was 90 at the time. |
| 2008-01-04 4:46 PM in reply to: #1132540 |
Expert 1357 Mukwonago, WI | Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me? I am finding this whole discussion about a "regular Joe" and what people want in their candidate fascinating. I too want somebody to lead but I certainly also want my candidate (and I am undecided) to stand for something. I am amazed at how some candidates really don't seem to stand for much. How do I know? Watch a debate. They don't answer questions and then it boils down to a number of candidates who stand for one thing - change. Interesting too how these candidates that preach change are currently in congress now! Where have they been with all this change up to this point. Say what you want about GWB but I don't think you can argue that he wasn't a leader. He easily could have conformed (in some cases he did) to public opinion and been better liked but he continued to fight for what he believed in. What bothers me about the results of Iowa is it seems like both candidates that one are ones who really aren't running on a platform. Look at this thread - nobody knows much about Huckabee other than he is religious. What has Obama done to lay down an Iraq strategy. The economy, etc. I just went to his website and his video introduction doesn't offer any direction other than "we believe in change, hope, unity, blah, blah, blah" Who's going to stand for something and lead? Unfortunately our country has become more about style instead of substance. Jokes instead of proposals. Playing instruments on late night TV instead of solutions. |
| 2008-01-04 4:49 PM in reply to: #1134585 |
Expert 1357 Mukwonago, WI | Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me? Global - 2008-01-04 4:34 PM Would you feel the same way if schools were mandated to purely teach creationism? It's easy to feel the way you do when my kids are being taught your beliefs with my dollars.wildee - 2008-01-04 2:20 PM wurkit_gurl - 2008-01-04 4:08 PM I trust that if I pull my kids from public school then that you are in favor of my family receiving a credit for my property taxes that go to support the government mandated teaching of evolution to my kids. wildee - 2008-01-04 4:39 PM [ IMHO I believe that evolution and it's government mandate of it's teaching is itself legislating religion. At the root of evolution is the belief that there is no god and hence the big bang, etc which is an opinion about god making it a form of religion. Yes I know that some forms of evolution belief include a god and the earths origin but that's not what I'm talking about so save those posts. Your comment that there's an effort to stop teaching evolution and to include creation-based curriculum is a contradictory statement. Is the movement to ban evolution teaching or to include creation-based curriculum because those are not one in the same. Besides, isn't it intolerant to support the model that has been in existance for decades of evolution being taught in school as the way things are when a vast portion of the population support creationism. If you lefties are tolerant, why wouldn't you support teaching both points of view?
Evolution is not a "religious" belief any more than Shakespeare, or basketball or math. And I don't recall any of my science teachers starting out the conversation with "There is NO God, class, and that's why we evolved from monkeys". Besides, if you don't want your kids to learn about evolution, send them to a private Christian school. No one is forcing you to send your kids to public school. Once again, the beauty of a free country. I don't have any children, where is my credit for me paying for your kids to go to school? The government provides basic services if you don't like those and want to send your kids somewhere else you can do that. I don't see where you should be exempt from paying for the government system just because you choose to send your kids somewhere else. |
| 2008-01-04 4:50 PM in reply to: #1134595 |
Expert 1357 Mukwonago, WI | Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me? Global - 2008-01-04 4:37 PM Read the post - it said of the first 125.Bripod - 2008-01-04 2:31 PM Global - 2008-01-04 4:29 PM Something like 123 out of the first 125 universities in this country were started because of Christianity. No thanks, Christians, we want our schools purely secular!
I don't see how it is the pubic schools responsibility to teach the catholic version of creationism/evolution. Or even mention what the catholic church does or does not support. In a pubic school your teaching is and should be purely secular. If you want to have religion brought into the discussion then you go to a religious school. So you are saying without Christianity there would be 2 universities? seriously? |
| 2008-01-04 4:57 PM in reply to: #1134626 |
Champion 5495 Whizzzzzlandia Silver member | Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me? wildee - 2008-01-04 4:46 PM Who's going to stand for something and lead? Unfortunately our country has become more about style instead of substance. Jokes instead of proposals. Playing instruments on late night TV instead of solutions.
Yes! Yes! Yes! I *know*. So, how to solve this problem? How? How? How? (I like to repeat words 3x, apparently...) I agree. Entirely. I just don't know what to do from here. I have been a Republican most of my voting life... was raised Catholic. Have decided to ditch my political and religious belief systems and start over, in both areas. Am keeping my ears, eyes, and heart open to all of the candidates... to hear them out, to listen to their plans, their beliefs, their solutions, and I'm going to make my best effort to vote for one that might represent my own beliefs/plans/solutions most closely. *Looks around* Not that anyone asked what my voting strategy was going to be... |
| 2008-01-04 5:03 PM in reply to: #1134642 |
Expert 864 Village of Lakewood, Illinois Silver member | Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me? wildee - 2008-01-04 4:49 PM Global - 2008-01-04 4:34 PM Would you feel the same way if schools were mandated to purely teach creationism? It's easy to feel the way you do when my kids are being taught your beliefs with my dollars.wildee - 2008-01-04 2:20 PM wurkit_gurl - 2008-01-04 4:08 PM I trust that if I pull my kids from public school then that you are in favor of my family receiving a credit for my property taxes that go to support the government mandated teaching of evolution to my kids. wildee - 2008-01-04 4:39 PM [ IMHO I believe that evolution and it's government mandate of it's teaching is itself legislating religion. At the root of evolution is the belief that there is no god and hence the big bang, etc which is an opinion about god making it a form of religion. Yes I know that some forms of evolution belief include a god and the earths origin but that's not what I'm talking about so save those posts. Your comment that there's an effort to stop teaching evolution and to include creation-based curriculum is a contradictory statement. Is the movement to ban evolution teaching or to include creation-based curriculum because those are not one in the same. Besides, isn't it intolerant to support the model that has been in existance for decades of evolution being taught in school as the way things are when a vast portion of the population support creationism. If you lefties are tolerant, why wouldn't you support teaching both points of view?
Evolution is not a "religious" belief any more than Shakespeare, or basketball or math. And I don't recall any of my science teachers starting out the conversation with "There is NO God, class, and that's why we evolved from monkeys". Besides, if you don't want your kids to learn about evolution, send them to a private Christian school. No one is forcing you to send your kids to public school. Once again, the beauty of a free country. I don't have any children, where is my credit for me paying for your kids to go to school? The government provides basic services if you don't like those and want to send your kids somewhere else you can do that. I don't see where you should be exempt from paying for the government system just because you choose to send your kids somewhere else. It is science class. It is a theory backed by science. I am not sure what creationism has to do with science. Religion Class yes. Then how would go about deciding what religion to teach in Public schools. |
| 2008-01-04 5:07 PM in reply to: #1134642 |
Master 1641 Seattle, California | Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me? wildee - 2008-01-04 2:49 PM Global - 2008-01-04 4:34 PM Would you feel the same way if schools were mandated to purely teach creationism? It's easy to feel the way you do when my kids are being taught your beliefs with my dollars.wildee - 2008-01-04 2:20 PM wurkit_gurl - 2008-01-04 4:08 PM I trust that if I pull my kids from public school then that you are in favor of my family receiving a credit for my property taxes that go to support the government mandated teaching of evolution to my kids. wildee - 2008-01-04 4:39 PM [ IMHO I believe that evolution and it's government mandate of it's teaching is itself legislating religion. At the root of evolution is the belief that there is no god and hence the big bang, etc which is an opinion about god making it a form of religion. Yes I know that some forms of evolution belief include a god and the earths origin but that's not what I'm talking about so save those posts. Your comment that there's an effort to stop teaching evolution and to include creation-based curriculum is a contradictory statement. Is the movement to ban evolution teaching or to include creation-based curriculum because those are not one in the same. Besides, isn't it intolerant to support the model that has been in existance for decades of evolution being taught in school as the way things are when a vast portion of the population support creationism. If you lefties are tolerant, why wouldn't you support teaching both points of view?
Evolution is not a "religious" belief any more than Shakespeare, or basketball or math. And I don't recall any of my science teachers starting out the conversation with "There is NO God, class, and that's why we evolved from monkeys". Besides, if you don't want your kids to learn about evolution, send them to a private Christian school. No one is forcing you to send your kids to public school. Once again, the beauty of a free country. I don't have any children, where is my credit for me paying for your kids to go to school? The government provides basic services if you don't like those and want to send your kids somewhere else you can do that. I don't see where you should be exempt from paying for the government system just because you choose to send your kids somewhere else. I actually don't have kids and not sure if my wife and I will have any so really I'm paying for everyone else kids to go to school. We have a melting pot of a country (well I'm in Canada but we are pretty similar) so there are lots of religions out there. To be able to teach all of our children in a way that does not discriminate against any one religion we have secular public schools where religion is left out of it. You still have the option to send your kid to a religious school but the tax payer isn't going to foot the bill because of your beliefs. Secular education in a society like ours is the only way to educate a large population while still respecting everyone religious beliefs. You could have lots of children with different religions in a classroom and to cater to all of those and teach just wouldn't work IMHO. If you cater to one you have to cater to all because our countries are about (or at least kinda) equality for all citizens. The other option is to educate all people segregating them by religion and I'm not sure if that is a path we want to go down. |
| 2008-01-04 5:17 PM in reply to: #1132540 |
Expert 1357 Mukwonago, WI | Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me? I think that the idea that science exists in a vacuum, void of a creator is not science. That's the whole problem is that science wants to be able to explain everything including creation but that's not how at least 80% of this country believes. I am not suggesting that public schools teach all possible points of view but just because there are numerous views certainly doesn't justify one that suggests the absence of creationism which is not what most people believe. Perhaps the existance of many beliefs supports more of a rebate for taxpaying parents to take their kids to a school that they believe teaches truth. |
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