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2013-02-01 10:42 AM
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Subject: RE: As they say, "Well, that escalated quickly."
crowny2 - 2013-02-01 11:31 AM

gr33n - 2013-02-01 10:30 AM Sorry disagree on service in EU. First- I go to restaurants for the food. Not for some smiley over sugary hi my name is suzi with an i to cling to the table topping off my water glass every time take a sip. Service should be take the order, get it right, make sure it arrives hot, and leave me alone. And for that I should pay 20% over the bill ?

When they are paid 1/4 of minimum wage?  Yes, you should.

It depends on each state, but in most, servers and bartenders are generally paid around $3 per hour.  Yes, you read that correctly!  24 years ago, I remember earning $1.75 per hour.  Your income depends almost solely on tips.

Which to me always raised the question...  When will the lawsuit come and go before the Supreme Court that requires restaurants to pay their servers minimum wage when they perform non-tipping work.  All of you here whom have been a server can remember pre and post shift duties;  cleaning, prepping, table sets, "roll-ups", minor food prep.  I used to do that work for $1.75 per hour and I would be willing to bet that that's illegal in some way.  Taking advantage of workers for an hour before and an hour after their shift and paying them less than minimum wage.

I would love to hear from a lawyer on this one.

 



2013-02-01 10:43 AM
in reply to: #4604327

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Subject: RE: As they say, "Well, that escalated quickly."
Left Brain - 2013-02-01 10:40 AM
GomesBolt - 2013-02-01 10:34 AM
lisac957 - 2013-02-01 10:30 AM
GomesBolt - 2013-02-01 10:25 AM

              A tip should be optional.  They should pay their people a regular wage.

                I hate this argument. That's just not the way the system is set up.

So what is the appropriate amount?

15% for not good or average service.

20% for exceptional service?

We tip 20% if we get good service.  (almost always)

I'll tip 10% if the service is really bad.  (rarely happens)

 

Same here.

And I'll tell you if you're a chronic bad or non tipper (receiving great service) and a regular patron, your service WILL go down drastically. Why should anyone bother giving great service when they know it won't be rewarded? 

2013-02-01 10:44 AM
in reply to: #4603979

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Subject: RE: As they say, "Well, that escalated quickly."
Tony you need to come here. Restaurants in general here have a lot lower staff turnover than in the US. Max tip is around 5%. Sorry but I find the professionalism in the service industry here better than what I've seen in the US recently. Maybe its a European pride thing. Or, Nothing like an economic crisis to say wake the F up people... 
2013-02-01 10:45 AM
in reply to: #4604320

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Subject: RE: As they say, "Well, that escalated quickly."

gr33n - 2013-02-01 10:37 AM Thats my point- they should be paid a fair wage and expected to provide good service if they are in a service based role. If not sack em. Obviously 25% of minimum wage is not a fair wage. Last time I was back in the US I was amazed at the tip jars on every counter in every retail place or any site that has public interaction. If thats the way its going it doesn't end well....

Servers in a restaurant receive a fair wage via their tips.  There are a number of reasons it's structured this way.

Counter service is a different story.  Sometimes I will leave a small tip or leftover change, but most of the time I ignore them.  I do tip my morning coffee folks though, because I go there every morning and they do a great job, plus they have a reward program where your 6th cup is free, so I use the savings to tip the Batista.

Anyway, I'm not sure what's not going to end well.   We may argue over here about the way things should/shouldn't be politically, but I think we are  doing okay comparatively.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/30/spain-gdp-economy-shrinks

And for the record, I have no idea how the service is today in Europe.  I don't ever remember it being bad from the few times I've been, nor anything spectacular.



Edited by pilotzs 2013-02-01 10:50 AM
2013-02-01 10:52 AM
in reply to: #4604341

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Subject: RE: As they say, "Well, that escalated quickly."
lisac957 - 2013-02-01 10:43 AM

           Why should anyone bother giving great service when they know it won't be rewarded? 

--End Lisa's Post--

I'm just glad Cops and Firefighters and Teachers don't follow that line of thinking...

I still tip. I just think that when the service sux, I should not feel bad for tipping at 10%. 

But I never tip that low. I'm always a 20%-er unless someone sucks really bad and then I go with a 15%.

Maybe I should still give the 20% and put a note that says "I'm still giving you 20% because maybe this was just a bad day, but I wasn't very happy with my service."

What would be worse? a note like that or a 10% tip?



Edited by GomesBolt 2013-02-01 10:52 AM
2013-02-01 10:52 AM
in reply to: #4603979

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Subject: RE: As they say, "Well, that escalated quickly."
Sorry as much as I'd like to continue- the weekend is here. Good weekend all....


2013-02-01 11:00 AM
in reply to: #4604358

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Subject: RE: As they say, "Well, that escalated quickly."
GomesBolt - 2013-02-01 10:52 AM
lisac957 - 2013-02-01 10:43 AM

           Why should anyone bother giving great service when they know it won't be rewarded? 

--End Lisa's Post--

I'm just glad Cops and Firefighters and Teachers don't follow that line of thinking...

Cops, Firefighters, and Teachers all receive more than $2.13 per hour.

2013-02-01 11:00 AM
in reply to: #4603979

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Subject: RE: As they say, "Well, that escalated quickly."
She's a pastor and he only gives 10%? Huh. I have to say I'm a little disappointed.

Edited for proper gender

Edited by Bripod 2013-02-01 11:02 AM
2013-02-01 11:09 AM
in reply to: #4604381

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Subject: RE: As they say, "Well, that escalated quickly."

Bripod - 2013-02-01 12:00 PM She's a pastor and he only gives 10%? Huh. I have to say I'm a little disappointed. Edited for proper gender

keep editing! 

2013-02-01 11:13 AM
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Subject: RE: As they say, "Well, that escalated quickly."
GomesBolt - 2013-02-01 10:52 AM

lisac957 - 2013-02-01 10:43 AM

           Why should anyone bother giving great service when they know it won't be rewarded? 

--End Lisa's Post--

I'm just glad Cops and Firefighters and Teachers don't follow that line of thinking...

I still tip. I just think that when the service sux, I should not feel bad for tipping at 10%. 

But I never tip that low. I'm always a 20%-er unless someone sucks really bad and then I go with a 15%.

Maybe I should still give the 20% and put a note that says "I'm still giving you 20% because maybe this was just a bad day, but I wasn't very happy with my service."

What would be worse? a note like that or a 10% tip?



Sadly, some cops and firefighters and teachers do follow that line of thinking, unfortunately. But that's not a service in the same sense that a server is performing a service. If you're a cop or a firefighter and you give less than 100 percent you could potentially die. If a server doesn't, he or she likely will just earn less. Everybody has bad days, it's true, but while money is a great motivator, so is avoiding death.
2013-02-01 11:15 AM
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Subject: RE: As they say, "Well, that escalated quickly."
mehaner - 2013-02-01 11:09 AM

Bripod - 2013-02-01 12:00 PM She's a pastor and he only gives 10%? Huh. I have to say I'm a little disappointed. Edited for proper gender

keep editing! 


Ah poop.


2013-02-01 11:20 AM
in reply to: #4604316

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Subject: RE: As they say, "Well, that escalated quickly."

mr2tony - 2013-02-01 9:35 AM
gr33n - 2013-02-01 10:30 AM Sorry disagree on service in EU. First- I go to restaurants for the food. Not for some smiley over sugary hi my name is suzi with an i to cling to the table topping off my water glass every time take a sip. Service should be take the order, get it right, make sure it arrives hot, and leave me alone. And for that I should pay 20% over the bill ?
Right. I agree. Sadly, when there's no tipping I found that it was `Wait too long to be seated. Sit at table waiting for server while he/she chats with the other servers or texts on her phone. When he/she arrives he/she is less than pleasant. No way to alter an order, even if you don't like something or have an allergy to an ingredient. Food takes forever to get. When it arrives it's not correct. Server is put out by your complaint that what arrived is not what you ordered and begrudgingly takes it back. When food arrives a second time it's still not correct but you eat it anyway so as not to cause a scene and/or because you're hungry by this point.' OK that's an extreme case but in London at least I would say it's the rule more than the exception. A few places have great service and great employees but I found that more often than not, this or a combination of these events were the rule rather than the exception. I had a bartender make me wait to get drinks until his horse race was over. I had `cajun chicken' come out with no spice and when I asked for spice she put some pepper on it. Maybe it's a London thing?

Wait... an American goes to London and order's cajun chicken? I'd say you are lucky if pepper was all she put on it...

2013-02-01 11:24 AM
in reply to: #4604429

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Subject: RE: As they say, "Well, that escalated quickly."
I like it when they add 18%.  Since I normally tip around 20%, they just screwed themselves out of money.  That couple percent adds up when it's a group of 8 or more, when they typically do that....
2013-02-01 11:25 AM
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Subject: RE: As they say, "Well, that escalated quickly."
Aarondb4 - 2013-02-01 11:20 AM

mr2tony - 2013-02-01 9:35 AM
gr33n - 2013-02-01 10:30 AM Sorry disagree on service in EU. First- I go to restaurants for the food. Not for some smiley over sugary hi my name is suzi with an i to cling to the table topping off my water glass every time take a sip. Service should be take the order, get it right, make sure it arrives hot, and leave me alone. And for that I should pay 20% over the bill ?
Right. I agree. Sadly, when there's no tipping I found that it was `Wait too long to be seated. Sit at table waiting for server while he/she chats with the other servers or texts on her phone. When he/she arrives he/she is less than pleasant. No way to alter an order, even if you don't like something or have an allergy to an ingredient. Food takes forever to get. When it arrives it's not correct. Server is put out by your complaint that what arrived is not what you ordered and begrudgingly takes it back. When food arrives a second time it's still not correct but you eat it anyway so as not to cause a scene and/or because you're hungry by this point.' OK that's an extreme case but in London at least I would say it's the rule more than the exception. A few places have great service and great employees but I found that more often than not, this or a combination of these events were the rule rather than the exception. I had a bartender make me wait to get drinks until his horse race was over. I had `cajun chicken' come out with no spice and when I asked for spice she put some pepper on it. Maybe it's a London thing?

Wait... an American goes to London and order's cajun chicken? I'd say you are lucky if pepper was all she put on it...



Haha yeah well it was a fancy restaurant near where the missus worked and I saw it (first time I'd seen the word `cajun' in London) so I had to order it. Really, I blame myself for even considering the British could get a cajun dish anywhere even close to what it was supposed to be. In Covent Garden, though, there was a really good Tex-Mex restaurant called `Navajo Joes' we'd go to occasionally.
2013-02-01 11:42 AM
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Subject: RE: As they say, "Well, that escalated quickly."
Do you really want for restaurants to just pay minimum wage and do away with tipping? If you like the service you get at McDonalds then okay.
The expectations of servers in most restaurants are way above a minimum wage job. I want my server to not only be courteous and efficient, but I want them to know the menu, know the ingredients, help me make healthy substitutions, and communicate my order to the cook staff in a way that my food is prepared to order.

Should they be paid minimum wage? Definitely! Does that eliminate the need to tip? No!

It’s like the old saying, “You get what you pay for.”
2013-02-01 11:58 AM
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Subject: RE: As they say, "Well, that escalated quickly."
I don't like when we go out as a family and they add in the tip because I make my youngest figure out in his head what 18% of the tab work out to be. TANSTAAFL!


2013-02-01 12:08 PM
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Subject: RE: As they say, "Well, that escalated quickly."
Iowaman - 2013-02-01 8:13 AM
lisac957 - 2013-02-01 9:58 AM

Iowaman - 2013-02-01 9:32 AM If you didn't like the service or it wasn't to your satisfaction, you still tip. If you think 18% is to high at least give something. A lot of wait staff work of tips. That pastor is totally wrong. Stiifing wait staff on a $34.00 dollar bill. Next time eat at McDonald's, you don't have to tip at the drive thru jerkoff. God hates none tippers. It's in the bible.

It wasn't a matter of what the patron *thought* she should give - it was company policy to auto-charge the 18%.

In my mind it would be the same as saying "my meal was only worth $5, not the $12 you're charging me. So here's $5. We good?"

Like I said, then eat somewhere you can afford to pay and tip. Stiffing the waitress isn't right. Don't go or support that food chain anymore but pay what your expected while you're there.

 

I'm expected to pay a tip for services rendered. I usually tip at least 15% for regular service, and 20% or even more for a server that makes more of an effort. But a server who doesn't do his/her job, and I actually have to go hunt them down to get something or go to the bar myself to get a refill? Nothing, just as deserved.

2013-02-01 12:18 PM
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Subject: RE: As they say, "Well, that escalated quickly."

gr33n - 2013-02-01 8:30 AM Sorry disagree on service in EU. First- I go to restaurants for the food. Not for some smiley over sugary hi my name is suzi with an i to cling to the table topping off my water glass every time take a sip. Service should be take the order, get it right, make sure it arrives hot, and leave me alone. And for that I should pay 20% over the bill ?

 

No, for that pay 15%. You pay extra when the server is aware that you need something, and brings it, without you asking. When he see's that the children are being difficult, and suddenly crayons appear, when he does a bit more to make your evening special. That can all be done while allowing you to eat in peace.

In Canada we have a chain called Earls. The dress code for the waitresses seems to be VERY low cut blouse or dress, and VERY short miniskirts. And they bend over a lot. Since I am no longer 16, this doesn't amuse me, and the tip is the minimal 15% I give for decent service. The few waiters I have run into there don't have the miniskirts and chest to show off, so they actually work harder at making the experience enjoyable. They get the 20+ % tips.

2013-02-01 12:20 PM
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Subject: RE: As they say, "Well, that escalated quickly."
GomesBolt - 2013-02-01 8:34 AM
lisac957 - 2013-02-01 10:30 AM
GomesBolt - 2013-02-01 10:25 AM

              A tip should be optional.  They should pay their people a regular wage.

                I hate this argument. That's just not the way the system is set up.

So what is the appropriate amount?

15% for not good or average service.

20% for exceptional service?

 

15% for average service.

20% or more for exceptional service

0% for lousy service



Edited by r1237h 2013-02-01 12:20 PM
2013-02-01 12:24 PM
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Subject: RE: As they say, "Well, that escalated quickly."
lisac957 - 2013-02-01 8:43 AM
Left Brain - 2013-02-01 10:40 AM
GomesBolt - 2013-02-01 10:34 AM
lisac957 - 2013-02-01 10:30 AM
GomesBolt - 2013-02-01 10:25 AM

              A tip should be optional.  They should pay their people a regular wage.

                I hate this argument. That's just not the way the system is set up.

So what is the appropriate amount?

15% for not good or average service.

20% for exceptional service?

We tip 20% if we get good service.  (almost always)

I'll tip 10% if the service is really bad.  (rarely happens)

 

Same here.

And I'll tell you if you're a chronic bad or non tipper (receiving great service) and a regular patron, your service WILL go down drastically. Why should anyone bother giving great service when they know it won't be rewarded? 

 

Why should anyone expect a tip if they give really bad service?

2013-02-01 12:25 PM
in reply to: #4604346

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Subject: RE: As they say, "Well, that escalated quickly."
pilotzs - 2013-02-01 11:45 AM

gr33n - 2013-02-01 10:37 AM Thats my point- they should be paid a fair wage and expected to provide good service if they are in a service based role. If not sack em. Obviously 25% of minimum wage is not a fair wage. Last time I was back in the US I was amazed at the tip jars on every counter in every retail place or any site that has public interaction. If thats the way its going it doesn't end well....

Servers in a restaurant receive a fair wage via their tips.  There are a number of reasons it's structured this way.

Counter service is a different story.  Sometimes I will leave a small tip or leftover change, but most of the time I ignore them.  I do tip my morning coffee folks though, because I go there every morning and they do a great job, plus they have a reward program where your 6th cup is free, so I use the savings to tip the Batista.

Anyway, I'm not sure what's not going to end well.   We may argue over here about the way things should/shouldn't be politically, but I think we are  doing okay comparatively.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/30/spain-gdp-economy-shrinks

And for the record, I have no idea how the service is today in Europe.  I don't ever remember it being bad from the few times I've been, nor anything spectacular.

I would NOT encourage tipping revolutionaries



Edited by Nipper 2013-02-01 12:25 PM


2013-02-01 12:25 PM
in reply to: #4604441

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Subject: RE: As they say, "Well, that escalated quickly."

mr2tony - 2013-02-01 9:25 AM Haha yeah well it was a fancy restaurant near where the missus worked and I saw it (first time I'd seen the word `cajun' in London) so I had to order it. Really, I blame myself for even considering the British could get a cajun dish anywhere even close to what it was supposed to be. In Covent Garden, though, there was a really good Tex-Mex restaurant called `Navajo Joes' we'd go to occasionally.

Cajun in London,,,,, sounds like a movie Kurt Russell should be starring in.

2013-02-01 12:28 PM
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Subject: RE: As they say, "Well, that escalated quickly."
Nipper - 2013-02-01 12:25 PM

pilotzs - 2013-02-01 11:45 AM

gr33n - 2013-02-01 10:37 AM Thats my point- they should be paid a fair wage and expected to provide good service if they are in a service based role. If not sack em. Obviously 25% of minimum wage is not a fair wage. Last time I was back in the US I was amazed at the tip jars on every counter in every retail place or any site that has public interaction. If thats the way its going it doesn't end well....

Servers in a restaurant receive a fair wage via their tips.  There are a number of reasons it's structured this way.

Counter service is a different story.  Sometimes I will leave a small tip or leftover change, but most of the time I ignore them.  I do tip my morning coffee folks though, because I go there every morning and they do a great job, plus they have a reward program where your 6th cup is free, so I use the savings to tip the Batista.

Anyway, I'm not sure what's not going to end well.   We may argue over here about the way things should/shouldn't be politically, but I think we are  doing okay comparatively.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/30/spain-gdp-economy-shrinks

And for the record, I have no idea how the service is today in Europe.  I don't ever remember it being bad from the few times I've been, nor anything spectacular.

I would NOT encourage tipping revolutionaries



Glad to see someone else got a chuckle out of that, too.

I also don't tip the Sandinistas at the beach.

2013-02-01 12:30 PM
in reply to: #4604544

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Alpharetta, Georgia
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Subject: RE: As they say, "Well, that escalated quickly."
r1237h - 2013-02-01 12:24 PM
lisac957 - 2013-02-01 8:43 AM
Left Brain - 2013-02-01 10:40 AM
GomesBolt - 2013-02-01 10:34 AM
lisac957 - 2013-02-01 10:30 AM
GomesBolt - 2013-02-01 10:25 AM

              A tip should be optional.  They should pay their people a regular wage.

                I hate this argument. That's just not the way the system is set up.

So what is the appropriate amount?

15% for not good or average service.

20% for exceptional service?

We tip 20% if we get good service.  (almost always)

I'll tip 10% if the service is really bad.  (rarely happens)

 

Same here.

And I'll tell you if you're a chronic bad or non tipper (receiving great service) and a regular patron, your service WILL go down drastically. Why should anyone bother giving great service when they know it won't be rewarded? 

 

Why should anyone expect a tip if they give really bad service?

I never did. I don't think people do, in general.

The point was that if you know you're not going to get tipped, you're clearly not going to go above and beyond. That's just a waste of time.

2013-02-01 12:33 PM
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Subject: RE: As they say, "Well, that escalated quickly."
r1237h - 2013-02-01 12:24 PM

lisac957 - 2013-02-01 8:43 AM
Left Brain - 2013-02-01 10:40 AM
GomesBolt - 2013-02-01 10:34 AM
lisac957 - 2013-02-01 10:30 AM
GomesBolt - 2013-02-01 10:25 AM

              A tip should be optional.  They should pay their people a regular wage.

                I hate this argument. That's just not the way the system is set up.

So what is the appropriate amount?

15% for not good or average service.

20% for exceptional service?

We tip 20% if we get good service.  (almost always)

I'll tip 10% if the service is really bad.  (rarely happens)

 

Same here.

And I'll tell you if you're a chronic bad or non tipper (receiving great service) and a regular patron, your service WILL go down drastically. Why should anyone bother giving great service when they know it won't be rewarded? 

 

Why should anyone expect a tip if they give really bad service?



There were days as a server in college when I was just not all there. I knew going in a lot of times I wasn't going to give good service because I was cranky or not feeling well or stressed, so I didn't expect much. But when you DO give good service, and you get a shi**y tip it's quite upsetting.
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