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Ryan Mac’s HIM Focus Group - CLOSED (Page 4)
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 2015-01-09 7:36 AM in reply to: marcag |
Expert  1260    Norton Shores, MI |  Subject: RE: Ryan Mac’s HIM Focus Group - OPENOriginally posted by marcag Yeah that's where I was headed with my questioning and trying to determine if it would be best to use the 5K or the half marathon. Go to mcmillanrunning.com and plug in your 5k time. It will spit out training paces for the run objective (I.e. Easy, tempo, interval, etc..). This is how I have trained the last couple years and only used heart rate as an observation and not really to drive my training. Based on what you describe this may be a good option to play with. Also, see how these paces correspond with your RPE. Based on comments from your log for the last couple runs. These paces seem to correlate pretty well with your RPE.Originally posted by ShawnTX Maybe you need to continue measuring your HR but not being guided by it. I would use McMillan type in my 5k race time and get the "easy pace" from there. I would run at it and see if you can do your entire running at a conversational pace. My zones are all set by pace, not HR. I would not let my form fall apart in order to hit an arbitrary HR.Also take a look at thishttp://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/aerobic-endurance-and-decouplingOriginally posted by Ryan Mac Half marathons went fairly well. My first was in miserable conditions. 25 degrees and drizzling. Throw on top of that it was my first half marathon ever and I was not optimistic. Regardless, I kept my head and paced it well. I died in the last 2 miles, dropping to about an 11:30/mi., but never stopped running. In the Dallas Half last month the weather was nearly perfect. 60 degrees and overcast. I went out a little too hard in my opinion and clicked off the first 4 miles between a 9:20-9:47 pace. My original race plan was to start out at 10:30 pace and negative split the race. Instead I went the other way with my last 6 miles ranging between 10:50-11:33. While this race technically was the faster of the two, I felt significantly worse in the second half of the race and walked through 5 hydration stations and had to break down and walk about a quarter of a mile in mile 13 due to legs cramping. My average per mile HR in this race from mile 2 on was 172-183 with a total race average of 175. From my understanding of all the info I have studied so far, this is too high. It really concerns me when I think of the prospect of a HIM. If I start off in mile 2 of a HIM with a 170+ HR, I question whether my body will be able to sustain that over the race distance. HR in the pool is pretty much the same. Only saving grace is on the bike. Last training ride was a few days ago. Average HR was 129 @ 16.9 mph for 35 miles. I know that's not speedy, but I'm not worried about that. I'll worry about speed further along in my training. So my hope is to have a ride similar to this where my body can recover and fuel up for my weakness in the run.This morning's run was another perfect example of my struggles with Z2 training. http://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/669273973Myplan for this run was to run 10:30 pace (an easy pace for me) and shoot for a 5k (an easy distance for me at this point). I started out exactly to plan with the first mile coming in at 10:33 with avg. HR of 149. Hey looking great! During mile 2 HR starts creeping up past the 150's and into the 160's. "Crap, heading out of Z2. Better slow down the pace." I drop the pace in mile 2 to 10:51. Mile 2 avg. HR ends up at 160. Mile 3 and my HR starts creeping into the 170's. I dial the pace back again to 11:25. Despite this, mile 3 average HR is 169. 11:25 pace actually starts to become painful for me as my form completely breaks down. I start feeling the stresses in my knees and hips. I worry about the possibility of injury at this pace. I can run much more comfortably anywhere in the 8:30-10:30 pace range. Form feels fluid, no pain, no injuries. So then I end up asking myself if the benefits of Z2 training are going to be trumped by an injury? I know training in Z3-Z4 are junk miles, but I'm having a hard time figuring out how to avoid it. Or, maybe I take a counter-intuitive approach and minimize my run training. Since I can stay in Z2 on the bike, I can build cardio fitness there and work in just a couple of runs a week just to keep my form. Again, any advice is greatly appreciated.Originally posted by marcag how did the half marathons go? Were you walking quite a bit or running a fairly steady pace. Marc is right that a 24' 5K should yield a HM around 1:55 or so.Originally posted by ShawnTX Local 5k - September: 5k 24:14 7:42/mi. Half Marathon - November 13.28 2:21:49 10:41/mi. Half Marathon - October 13.32 2:18:02 10:22/mi. hmmmmmm.....at 24:14 you should be running sub 2h....easy |
| 2015-01-09 7:41 AM in reply to: Ryan Mac |
Expert 1260 Norton Shores, MI | Subject: RE: Ryan Mac’s HIM Focus Group - CLOSED Everything is shut down again today due to the snow storm and I am home with the kids. Hopefully I can fit in a trainer ride tonight at some point. |
| 2015-01-09 7:59 AM in reply to: Ryan Mac |
Veteran 1677 Houston, Texas | Subject: RE: Ryan Mac’s HIM Focus Group - OPEN Originally posted by Ryan Mac Originally posted by marcag Maybe you need to continue measuring your HR but not being guided by it. I would use McMillan type in my 5k race time and get the "easy pace" from there. I would run at it and see if you can do your entire running at a conversational pace. My zones are all set by pace, not HR. I would not let my form fall apart in order to hit an arbitrary HR. Also take a look at thishttp://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/aerobic-endurance-and-decoupling Yeah that's where I was headed with my questioning and trying to determine if it would be best to use the 5K or the half marathon. Go to mcmillanrunning.com and plug in your 5k time. It will spit out training paces for the run objective (I.e. Easy, tempo, interval, etc..). This is how I have trained the last couple years and only used heart rate as an observation and not really to drive my training. Based on what you describe this may be a good option to play with. Also, see how these paces correspond with your RPE. Based on comments from your log for the last couple runs. These paces seem to correlate pretty well with your RPE. In addition to using McMillan pacing, I use RPE. If I'm doing an easy run and supposed to be in the 8:45 - 9:45 pace per McMillan, but 9:45 isn't feeling particularly easy for whatever reason, I just go at a pace that feels easy rather than chasing that pace. I've never had the opposite problem where my fastest "easy" pace felt too easy, so haven't had to cross that bridge....but in that case, I'd probably just try to stick with McMillan's pace so I don't hinder my next run. |
| 2015-01-09 8:28 AM in reply to: #5076763 |
| 9 | Subject: RE: Ryan Mac’s HIM Focus Group - CLOSED Question: What is the best field test to set HR zones? I've seen a max test and an estimated threshold test. Thanks |
| 2015-01-09 9:02 AM in reply to: ligersandtions |
| 23 | Subject: RE: Ryan Mac’s HIM Focus Group - OPEN Boom! You guys got it. I went over to mcmillanrunning.com and plugged in my 5k time. I can't believe I haven't run across that site in all of my studying so far. My race paces were dead on below 5k. It calculated a best 1 mile of 7:00.6 and my PR is literally 6:59. Longer distances drop off. McMillan 5k is 50:32 and my PR is 59:49 and 1/2 is 1:52:40 and my PR is 2:18:02. I'm o.k. with this. Just shows that I have some work to do on the endurance side. I'll still keep an eye on my HR, but am willing to bet it will come down over the long term as my overall fitness level increases. The McMillan paces were spot on to what I have been training at and the associated RPE's match my real world RPE's perfectly. Now that I feel good about having solid training paces I can round out my training plan knowing that it is a "good" plan. Now I won't dominate the forum so much!  I can't say how much I appreciate you guys throwing out the advice as it has helped me close up a very confusing chapter. I'll post my training plan draft in next few days. |
| 2015-01-09 9:03 AM in reply to: 0 |
Expert 1260 Norton Shores, MI | Subject: RE: Ryan Mac’s HIM Focus Group - CLOSED Originally posted by swimdeanQuestion:What is the best field test to set HR zones? I've seen a max test and an estimated threshold test. Thanks Dean: Here is a summary of HR field tests that are ok to use http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=... http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp... me, I do a 15k race that takes me an hour and the average HR is my LTHR since we are looking for the heart rate we can roughly sustain for 1 hr. If you can't do that then these tests will get you pretty close.You can also approximate pretty close based on other race distances if you are prone to injury and maybe don't want to do an all out test like the ones I linked too. I may have botched those links.Edited by Ryan Mac 2015-01-09 11:45 AM |
| 2015-01-09 9:56 AM in reply to: 0 |
Expert 1260 Norton Shores, MI | Subject: RE: Ryan Mac’s HIM Focus Group - OPEN Originally posted by ShawnTXBoom! You guys got it. I went over to mcmillanrunning.com and plugged in my 5k time. I can't believe I haven't run across that site in all of my studying so far. My race paces were dead on below 5k. It calculated a best 1 mile of 7:00.6 and my PR is literally 6:59. Longer distances drop off. McMillan 5k is 50:32 and my PR is 59:49 and 1/2 is 1:52:40 and my PR is 2:18:02. I'm o.k. with this. Just shows that I have some work to do on the endurance side. I'll still keep an eye on my HR, but am willing to bet it will come down over the long term as my overall fitness level increases. The McMillan paces were spot on to what I have been training at and the associated RPE's match my real world RPE's perfectly. Now that I feel good about having solid training paces I can round out my training plan knowing that it is a "good" plan. Now I won't dominate the forum so much! Glad to hear that!! I can't say how much I appreciate you guys throwing out the advice as it has helped me close up a very confusing chapter. I'll post my training plan draft in next few days.Edited by Ryan Mac 2015-01-09 9:57 AM |
| 2015-01-09 10:16 AM in reply to: swimdean |
Extreme Veteran 1018 | Subject: RE: Ryan Mac’s HIM Focus Group - CLOSED Originally posted by swimdean Question: What is the best field test to set HR zones? I've seen a max test and an estimated threshold test. Thanks I do these all the time and the HR is withing 2-3 beats. Then I said "what if" these are wrong. I went to the lab and had a lactate blood test. It was dead on.I do the 30 minute test. This is what is programmed in my watch. 10min no target Warmup 10min no target HARD 20min no target keeping going HARD 10min no target Cooldown Then I take the AvgHR for the 20min lap. I plug that into TrainingPeaks and I get my zones. |
| 2015-01-09 11:35 AM in reply to: GAUG3 |
Master 4119 Toronto Bronze member | Subject: RE: Ryan Mac’s HIM Focus Group - CLOSED Originally posted by GAUG3 Originally posted by swimdean Question: What is the best field test to set HR zones? I've seen a max test and an estimated threshold test. Thanks I do these all the time and the HR is withing 2-3 beats. Then I said "what if" these are wrong. I went to the lab and had a lactate blood test. It was dead on.I do the 30 minute test. This is what is programmed in my watch. 10min no target Warmup 10min no target HARD 20min no target keeping going HARD 10min no target Cooldown Then I take the AvgHR for the 20min lap. I plug that into TrainingPeaks and I get my zones. Thank you. I need to do this! |
| 2015-01-09 11:40 AM in reply to: 0 |
Master 4119 Toronto Bronze member | Subject: RE: Ryan Mac’s HIM Focus Group - CLOSED The day is getting a bit away from me. Busy at work which is good. A long night of being awake with my little one. In general, we're really lucky, she's a great sleeper but not last night. We had to tag team it and neither DH or i got good sleep. I was planning on doing yoga at lunch (very conveniently have a nice studio across the street from work) but a meeting went long and it just didn't happen. I may try to do a short routine tonight. I have a nice 22 minute dvd that goes through a full-body routine which i need. My left hip is a little cranky since my race early in Dec. Anyway, i'll definitely be more on track on Saturday. Sigh. I know i am being a bit of a weenie. Oh, the good thing is that i made a small resolution for myself: in order to get more done during my work day I've resolved not to surf the internet in the before noon at work. I am most productive in the morning and if i get lost on some tangent (like BT) my day can be lost. Even though it was only three days for me this week. I've been successful. Edited by juniperjen 2015-01-09 11:40 AM |
| 2015-01-09 11:41 AM in reply to: Ryan Mac |
Master 4119 Toronto Bronze member | Subject: RE: Ryan Mac’s HIM Focus Group - OPEN Originally posted by Ryan Mac Originally posted by ShawnTXBoom! You guys got it. I went over to mcmillanrunning.com and plugged in my 5k time. I can't believe I haven't run across that site in all of my studying so far. My race paces were dead on below 5k. It calculated a best 1 mile of 7:00.6 and my PR is literally 6:59. Longer distances drop off. McMillan 5k is 50:32 and my PR is 59:49 and 1/2 is 1:52:40 and my PR is 2:18:02. I'm o.k. with this. Just shows that I have some work to do on the endurance side. I'll still keep an eye on my HR, but am willing to bet it will come down over the long term as my overall fitness level increases. The McMillan paces were spot on to what I have been training at and the associated RPE's match my real world RPE's perfectly. Now that I feel good about having solid training paces I can round out my training plan knowing that it is a "good" plan. Now I won't dominate the forum so much! Glad to hear that!! I can't say how much I appreciate you guys throwing out the advice as it has helped me close up a very confusing chapter. I'll post my training plan draft in next few days.x2 these tools can be so helpful. But glad you know where you can improve. I am usually the opposite my long-distance races predict faster short distance races!! Ha! But i have been working on that. |
| 2015-01-09 12:53 PM in reply to: juniperjen |
| 23 | Subject: RE: Ryan Mac’s HIM Focus Group - OPEN Originally posted by juniperjen x2 these tools can be so helpful. But glad you know where you can improve. I am usually the opposite my long-distance races predict faster short distance races!! Ha! But i have been working on that. I was always a sprinter when I was younger. Ran a 4.25 - 40m, sub 10 second 100m, and 14:07 5k. Was always of the belief this was just a God given talent. Saw a study recently that revolved around muscle fiber type and a genetic predisposition link. Sprinters and other explosive type athletes have a higher ratio of fast twitch fibers while endurance athletes have more slow twitch. You would expect that it could be caused by their training, but they found that these same ratios held up, even in non-athletes, going back several generations in the subject's families. I often wonder if I am just predisposed to having a longer training curve for endurance. Maybe you are predisposed the other way? Lucky you!! Just don't go entering any 100m dashes!!! |
| 2015-01-09 1:11 PM in reply to: ShawnTX |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Ryan Mac’s HIM Focus Group - OPEN Originally posted by ShawnTX Originally posted by juniperjen x2 these tools can be so helpful. But glad you know where you can improve. I am usually the opposite my long-distance races predict faster short distance races!! Ha! But i have been working on that. I was always a sprinter when I was younger. Ran a 4.25 - 40m, sub 10 second 100m, and 14:07 5k. Was always of the belief this was just a God given talent. Saw a study recently that revolved around muscle fiber type and a genetic predisposition link. Sprinters and other explosive type athletes have a higher ratio of fast twitch fibers while endurance athletes have more slow twitch. You would expect that it could be caused by their training, but they found that these same ratios held up, even in non-athletes, going back several generations in the subject's families. I often wonder if I am just predisposed to having a longer training curve for endurance. Maybe you are predisposed the other way? Lucky you!! Just don't go entering any 100m dashes!!! Interesting topic and I meant ask Ryan about this since he has a hockey background. Did you have trouble adapting to endurance events at first. The reason I ask is I am working with a hockey player. He did extremely well in a recent HIM. But then he decided to go in for some formal lactate and VO2 testing and he is an anaerobic animal. He burns almost 100% carbohydrates right from the get go. I laughed when he told me how many bottles of PERFORM he drank in his HIM but it's real. His lactate profile shows he has an overdevelopped anaerobic system. The tester told me he sees this commonly with hockey players. He decided to wear his 910xt during a hockey game and WOW. His HR was crazy, redline, above threshold for 4minutes, 3 minutes stop, go, stop.....like massive VO2max intervals for an hour. Crazy !! I was wondering if there was anything from your hockey background that affected your endurance performance. |
| 2015-01-09 3:06 PM in reply to: marcag |
Veteran 1677 Houston, Texas | Subject: RE: Ryan Mac’s HIM Focus Group - OPEN Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by ShawnTX Interesting topic and I meant ask Ryan about this since he has a hockey background. Did you have trouble adapting to endurance events at first. The reason I ask is I am working with a hockey player. He did extremely well in a recent HIM. But then he decided to go in for some formal lactate and VO2 testing and he is an anaerobic animal. He burns almost 100% carbohydrates right from the get go. I laughed when he told me how many bottles of PERFORM he drank in his HIM but it's real. His lactate profile shows he has an overdevelopped anaerobic system. The tester told me he sees this commonly with hockey players. He decided to wear his 910xt during a hockey game and WOW. His HR was crazy, redline, above threshold for 4minutes, 3 minutes stop, go, stop.....like massive VO2max intervals for an hour. Crazy !! I was wondering if there was anything from your hockey background that affected your endurance performance. Originally posted by juniperjen I was always a sprinter when I was younger. Ran a 4.25 - 40m, sub 10 second 100m, and 14:07 5k. Was always of the belief this was just a God given talent. Saw a study recently that revolved around muscle fiber type and a genetic predisposition link. Sprinters and other explosive type athletes have a higher ratio of fast twitch fibers while endurance athletes have more slow twitch. You would expect that it could be caused by their training, but they found that these same ratios held up, even in non-athletes, going back several generations in the subject's families. I often wonder if I am just predisposed to having a longer training curve for endurance. Maybe you are predisposed the other way? Lucky you!! Just don't go entering any 100m dashes!!! x2 these tools can be so helpful. But glad you know where you can improve. I am usually the opposite my long-distance races predict faster short distance races!! Ha! But i have been working on that. That's interesting -- I used to ride with a former pro hockey player (okay, I rode with him while he was warming up and he promptly dropped EVERYONE when doing intervals). He's an absolute beast. Unfortunately, during his HIM last year, he had an unfixable mechanical that killed his race and a few months later, ended up crashing and landed in the ER. I haven't ridden with him since then. He said that the team would cross train on bikes (on the trainer mostly). His FTP was incredible. His running wasn't nearly as strong. I find it confusing / weird that being good at some endurance sports just doesn't translate to others. Like Jen, I'm much better with distance than I am at the shorter stuff. That said, my current 5k and HM are almost exactly spot on based on McMillan. Hoping to improve that HM time by a couple minutes next weekend. We shall see! |
| 2015-01-09 3:22 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 1018 | Subject: RE: Ryan Mac’s HIM Focus Group - OPEN Originally posted by ligersandtions I find it confusing / weird that being good at some endurance sports just doesn't translate to others. I know what you mean. My department at work moved to the 2nd floor in the building. We are known as the "edurance fit guys" because we have a couple marathoners, an Ironman and guy who hiked the whole Appalachian Trail. However, our HR is high and legs burn going up those steps. I guess it's engaging different sides of the muscles. Edited by GAUG3 2015-01-09 3:22 PM |
| 2015-01-09 3:41 PM in reply to: ligersandtions |
Expert 1260 Norton Shores, MI | Subject: RE: Ryan Mac’s HIM Focus Group - OPEN Originally posted by ligersandtions Cycling seems to translate well from hockey although hockey is a completely different animal than triathlon. In hockey you basically go all out for 45-90 seconds, recover for 2 minutes and repeat. Triathlon is for the most part all well below threshold so different energy systems.Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by ShawnTX Interesting topic and I meant ask Ryan about this since he has a hockey background. Did you have trouble adapting to endurance events at first. The reason I ask is I am working with a hockey player. He did extremely well in a recent HIM. But then he decided to go in for some formal lactate and VO2 testing and he is an anaerobic animal. He burns almost 100% carbohydrates right from the get go. I laughed when he told me how many bottles of PERFORM he drank in his HIM but it's real. His lactate profile shows he has an overdevelopped anaerobic system. The tester told me he sees this commonly with hockey players. He decided to wear his 910xt during a hockey game and WOW. His HR was crazy, redline, above threshold for 4minutes, 3 minutes stop, go, stop.....like massive VO2max intervals for an hour. Crazy !! I was wondering if there was anything from your hockey background that affected your endurance performance. Originally posted by juniperjen I was always a sprinter when I was younger. Ran a 4.25 - 40m, sub 10 second 100m, and 14:07 5k. Was always of the belief this was just a God given talent. Saw a study recently that revolved around muscle fiber type and a genetic predisposition link. Sprinters and other explosive type athletes have a higher ratio of fast twitch fibers while endurance athletes have more slow twitch. You would expect that it could be caused by their training, but they found that these same ratios held up, even in non-athletes, going back several generations in the subject's families. I often wonder if I am just predisposed to having a longer training curve for endurance. Maybe you are predisposed the other way? Lucky you!! Just don't go entering any 100m dashes!!! x2 these tools can be so helpful. But glad you know where you can improve. I am usually the opposite my long-distance races predict faster short distance races!! Ha! But i have been working on that. That's interesting -- I used to ride with a former pro hockey player (okay, I rode with him while he was warming up and he promptly dropped EVERYONE when doing intervals). He's an absolute beast. Unfortunately, during his HIM last year, he had an unfixable mechanical that killed his race and a few months later, ended up crashing and landed in the ER. I haven't ridden with him since then. He said that the team would cross train on bikes (on the trainer mostly). His FTP was incredible. His running wasn't nearly as strong. I find it confusing / weird that being good at some endurance sports just doesn't translate to others. Like Jen, I'm much better with distance than I am at the shorter stuff. That said, my current 5k and HM are almost exactly spot on based on McMillan. Hoping to improve that HM time by a couple minutes next weekend. We shall see! |
| 2015-01-09 3:50 PM in reply to: ligersandtions |
Expert 1260 Norton Shores, MI | Subject: RE: Ryan Mac’s HIM Focus Group - OPEN Nicole: what time are you shooting for?Sometimes I am afraid to say my goal paces out loud so ok if you don't want share. Just curious. |
| 2015-01-09 4:47 PM in reply to: ligersandtions |
| 23 | Subject: RE: Ryan Mac’s HIM Focus Group - OPEN Originally posted by ligersandtions Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by ShawnTX Interesting topic and I meant ask Ryan about this since he has a hockey background. Did you have trouble adapting to endurance events at first. The reason I ask is I am working with a hockey player. He did extremely well in a recent HIM. But then he decided to go in for some formal lactate and VO2 testing and he is an anaerobic animal. He burns almost 100% carbohydrates right from the get go. I laughed when he told me how many bottles of PERFORM he drank in his HIM but it's real. His lactate profile shows he has an overdevelopped anaerobic system. The tester told me he sees this commonly with hockey players. He decided to wear his 910xt during a hockey game and WOW. His HR was crazy, redline, above threshold for 4minutes, 3 minutes stop, go, stop.....like massive VO2max intervals for an hour. Crazy !! I was wondering if there was anything from your hockey background that affected your endurance performance. Originally posted by juniperjen I was always a sprinter when I was younger. Ran a 4.25 - 40m, sub 10 second 100m, and 14:07 5k. Was always of the belief this was just a God given talent. Saw a study recently that revolved around muscle fiber type and a genetic predisposition link. Sprinters and other explosive type athletes have a higher ratio of fast twitch fibers while endurance athletes have more slow twitch. You would expect that it could be caused by their training, but they found that these same ratios held up, even in non-athletes, going back several generations in the subject's families. I often wonder if I am just predisposed to having a longer training curve for endurance. Maybe you are predisposed the other way? Lucky you!! Just don't go entering any 100m dashes!!! x2 these tools can be so helpful. But glad you know where you can improve. I am usually the opposite my long-distance races predict faster short distance races!! Ha! But i have been working on that. That's interesting -- I used to ride with a former pro hockey player (okay, I rode with him while he was warming up and he promptly dropped EVERYONE when doing intervals). He's an absolute beast. Unfortunately, during his HIM last year, he had an unfixable mechanical that killed his race and a few months later, ended up crashing and landed in the ER. I haven't ridden with him since then. He said that the team would cross train on bikes (on the trainer mostly). His FTP was incredible. His running wasn't nearly as strong. I find it confusing / weird that being good at some endurance sports just doesn't translate to others. Like Jen, I'm much better with distance than I am at the shorter stuff. That said, my current 5k and HM are almost exactly spot on based on McMillan. Hoping to improve that HM time by a couple minutes next weekend. We shall see! I think it is a subject that exercise physiologist could go on and on about forever. I am not one of those so can only speak to my personal experience. With that said, my personal experience seems to support this. I was extremely fast when I was younger. I ran in the CA state 100 and 200m final for high school. Ran sprints in Div I college and played Div I college football as a cornerback; typically the fastest players on the field. I can say that, even while I was a child, explosive speed just came naturally to me. Once you pushed the distance out a bit though, I hated running. I would bet dollars to donuts that if I had a test done my muscle fiber ratio would be heavily skewed toward fast twitch fibers. The study was pretty clear that this ratio can not be adjusted through training. You have what you have and that is it. It did say that you could still train the muscle fibers you do have so that your performance will get better, but your upper level may never compete with somebody else that has a different ratio. I'm not horribly worried about it. It has made me at least consider that long course triathlon may be more of a bucket list item or something I do more for fun if I find myself lagging too far behind the pack in the long term. I am very competitive and would like to do things like podium a bunch and make AG Nationals some day. Not sure if that will be in the cards for me on long course, but may be very much in the cards at the sprint and Oly distances. I'm too new at this to know for sure, but will be keeping it in mind over the next few years to see how my body responds to all of this training. I've seen all the stories of people taking over 10 years to qualify for Kona so I am very well aware of how long it can take to reach that level of performance so I will not be jumping to any conclusions too soon. |
| 2015-01-09 4:52 PM in reply to: ShawnTX |
| 23 | Subject: RE: Ryan Mac’s HIM Focus Group - OPEN Originally posted by ShawnTX Originally posted by ligersandtions Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by ShawnTX Interesting topic and I meant ask Ryan about this since he has a hockey background. Did you have trouble adapting to endurance events at first. The reason I ask is I am working with a hockey player. He did extremely well in a recent HIM. But then he decided to go in for some formal lactate and VO2 testing and he is an anaerobic animal. He burns almost 100% carbohydrates right from the get go. I laughed when he told me how many bottles of PERFORM he drank in his HIM but it's real. His lactate profile shows he has an overdevelopped anaerobic system. The tester told me he sees this commonly with hockey players. He decided to wear his 910xt during a hockey game and WOW. His HR was crazy, redline, above threshold for 4minutes, 3 minutes stop, go, stop.....like massive VO2max intervals for an hour. Crazy !! I was wondering if there was anything from your hockey background that affected your endurance performance. Originally posted by juniperjen I was always a sprinter when I was younger. Ran a 4.25 - 40m, sub 10 second 100m, and 14:07 5k. Was always of the belief this was just a God given talent. Saw a study recently that revolved around muscle fiber type and a genetic predisposition link. Sprinters and other explosive type athletes have a higher ratio of fast twitch fibers while endurance athletes have more slow twitch. You would expect that it could be caused by their training, but they found that these same ratios held up, even in non-athletes, going back several generations in the subject's families. I often wonder if I am just predisposed to having a longer training curve for endurance. Maybe you are predisposed the other way? Lucky you!! Just don't go entering any 100m dashes!!! x2 these tools can be so helpful. But glad you know where you can improve. I am usually the opposite my long-distance races predict faster short distance races!! Ha! But i have been working on that. That's interesting -- I used to ride with a former pro hockey player (okay, I rode with him while he was warming up and he promptly dropped EVERYONE when doing intervals). He's an absolute beast. Unfortunately, during his HIM last year, he had an unfixable mechanical that killed his race and a few months later, ended up crashing and landed in the ER. I haven't ridden with him since then. He said that the team would cross train on bikes (on the trainer mostly). His FTP was incredible. His running wasn't nearly as strong. I find it confusing / weird that being good at some endurance sports just doesn't translate to others. Like Jen, I'm much better with distance than I am at the shorter stuff. That said, my current 5k and HM are almost exactly spot on based on McMillan. Hoping to improve that HM time by a couple minutes next weekend. We shall see! I think it is a subject that exercise physiologist could go on and on about forever. I am not one of those so can only speak to my personal experience. With that said, my personal experience seems to support this. I was extremely fast when I was younger. I ran in the CA state 100 and 200m final for high school. Ran sprints in Div I college and played Div I college football as a cornerback; typically the fastest players on the field. I can say that, even while I was a child, explosive speed just came naturally to me. Once you pushed the distance out a bit though, I hated running. I would bet dollars to donuts that if I had a test done my muscle fiber ratio would be heavily skewed toward fast twitch fibers. The study was pretty clear that this ratio can not be adjusted through training. You have what you have and that is it. It did say that you could still train the muscle fibers you do have so that your performance will get better, but your upper level may never compete with somebody else that has a different ratio. I'm not horribly worried about it. It has made me at least consider that long course triathlon may be more of a bucket list item or something I do more for fun if I find myself lagging too far behind the pack in the long term. I am very competitive and would like to do things like podium a bunch and make AG Nationals some day. Not sure if that will be in the cards for me on long course, but may be very much in the cards at the sprint and Oly distances. I'm too new at this to know for sure, but will be keeping it in mind over the next few years to see how my body responds to all of this training. I've seen all the stories of people taking over 10 years to qualify for Kona so I am very well aware of how long it can take to reach that level of performance so I will not be jumping to any conclusions too soon. Funny, just found this on mcmillanrunning.com: "Sprints and Ultras At the edges of the Race Time spectrum (short sprints of 100m-400m and ultra marathons of 50K-100 miles), genetics play as much of a role as does training so runners who are more speed-oriented will find the longer races predictions harder to meet and the same goes for endurance-oriented athletes. They will find the shorter race times harder to meet." Sounds like they agree with us. |
| 2015-01-09 6:34 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Ryan Mac’s HIM Focus Group - OPEN Originally posted by ShawnTX Funny, just found this on mcmillanrunning.com: "Sprints and Ultras At the edges of the Race Time spectrum (short sprints of 100m-400m and ultra marathons of 50K-100 miles), genetics play as much of a role as does training so runners who are more speed-oriented will find the longer races predictions harder to meet and the same goes for endurance-oriented athletes. They will find the shorter race times harder to meet." Sounds like they agree with us. While genetics play a role, I think people underestimate how trainable they really are. But I think we under appreciate how important the training mix and load really is. Edited by marcag 2015-01-09 6:37 PM |
| 2015-01-10 1:21 PM in reply to: marcag |
Master 3058 South Alabama | Subject: RE: Ryan Mac’s HIM Focus Group - OPEN Shawn-Holy Crap! 4.25/40 meters and sub 10 seconds for 100 meters are world class times. World record for the 100 meters 15-20 years ago was 9.79-9.84. Sub 10 second 100 meter will typically get a runner in the top 2-3 at NCAA Outdoors. Good for you! Well gang, I had a crappy bike workout this morning. Main set was 8 intervals of 3 min on 3 min recovery. Made it through 4 at prescribed wattage and then fell apart. Finished off with a couple of 15 min intervals around HIM wattage. Just didn't have it in the legs this morning. Run mileage has been slowly ramping up so I will blame it on some residual fatigue. Always frustrating to have this type of workout. Did an easy 3 mile runoff the bike so workouts done for the day. 50-55 min run and an hour easy spin on the bike for tomorrow. Ready to get outside on the bike....too much time in the garage watching Netflix. Have a good weekend everyone. |
| 2015-01-10 1:42 PM in reply to: slornow |
Expert 1260 Norton Shores, MI | Subject: RE: Ryan Mac’s HIM Focus Group - OPEN Not unusual to have a bad workout once in awhile. Definitely been there Randy.I am patiently waiting for my wife to get home so I can go for a run. Did a quick easy ride and core set while the little man was sleeping.What does everyone have lined up for the weekend for workouts? |
| 2015-01-10 4:27 PM in reply to: Ryan Mac |
Veteran 1677 Houston, Texas | Subject: RE: Ryan Mac’s HIM Focus Group - OPEN Originally posted by Ryan Mac Nicole: what time are you shooting for?Sometimes I am afraid to say my goal paces out loud so ok if you don't want share. Just curious. I will be content with anything under 1:52, as that would be a PR. I'd like to see myself at sub-1:50, so that's what my pacing plan has me shooting for. A couple months ago, I was feeling fairly confident that I had a shot at 1:48, but then I came down with a gnarly sinus infection followed by a cold that knocked me out for 11 days (and then had to ramp back up somewhat slowly as I was still recovering). My real goal, though, is to be close to 1:50 at Galveston in April, so I'm hoping this run focus will help me there. My open HM and HIM run times are not all that different from one another....I don't seem to have a lot in the way of speed, but I can hold it for a long time. |
| 2015-01-10 4:52 PM in reply to: Ryan Mac |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Ryan Mac’s HIM Focus Group - OPEN Originally posted by Ryan Mac Not unusual to have a bad workout once in awhile. Definitely been there Randy.I am patiently waiting for my wife to get home so I can go for a run. Did a quick easy ride and core set while the little man was sleeping.What does everyone have lined up for the weekend for workouts? Good day for me Hard bike session, 3x8' VO2 intervals on the trainer http://home.trainingpeaks.com/athlete/workout/4T4F2WKYFJ6BPPGTVHC7U... 5mile easy run http://home.trainingpeaks.com/athlete/workout/HXWCDTPFEJS7JWBBB4WZN... |
| 2015-01-10 6:49 PM in reply to: Ryan Mac |
Extreme Veteran 1018 | Subject: RE: Ryan Mac’s HIM Focus Group - CLOSED Productive day. 3600y swim and 1.5 hour ride on the trainer. Trying not to eat everything in sight. |
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