Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread (Page 43)

Okay, Uncle. 

I am going to take everyone's word for it and do the shorter sets.  It didn't work for my HIM in October, but perhaps I just had a bad day in the water.  And my experience and knowledge with swimming spans an uncoached whopping 27 months. 

And if I don't go sub 1:10 at LP, I'll just blame all you guys.    

Man you guys are really going to hate me after reading this.  These are my thoughts on the swim thing.  

I’ll start with what worked for me last year as far as my training for LP.  What I did was long sets 500, 1500, 2000yds and some other stuff.  So my long/short ratio was like 90/10.  Did it work for me, yes?  I improved, but what’s to say I wouldn’t have improved just as much or better by doing short sets?  What worked for me may, or may NOT, work for you.  My logs are open.  Please check if you wish.  I don’t condone this for everybody because I am not everybody, just some crazy old guy.  Try and trued swim training methods already described here and proven too work.  If I was starting out new I would probable stick with those.

I swam LP in 1:02 with pretty even splits of :31:18 & :31:26 using the long set in training.  I felt fresh coming out of the water and went on to have a good race.  I also used this type of training for all of my other Tri’s in 08’ and 09’.  It took me too the FOP swim times in several HIM, sprints and Oly.  I have never been coached or trained as a competitive swimmer.  The only type of swim training I have ever had was two Water Safety Instructor courses.  Even then I just did each stroke and performed it well.  But that’s just me I am a very natural swimmer, so maybe that’s the key.  I am telling you this not to pat myself on the back but just so you know how well I did on the long set thing.

I know to get faster you need the proper technique.  Techniques applied to intervals are a BIG key to getting faster.  Swim sets are intervals basically allowing you to build cardio and aerobic fitness in the swim while maintaining form.  The short rests give you a bit of a break so you may retune to proper form. 

Btw I am doing a lot more short sets to get faster.  I see I need this.  I still incorporate long sets as well.  Doing 100 at 1:15 on :10 sec rest does hurt but only if you let it. 

First off let me apologize for jumping in on your thread---I'm NOT doing IMLP but I've been following this thread since day one (due to all the cool/fast folks racing) and I just have to jump into this swim thing......

OK I come from a swimming background---and specifically distance free---so that's where my thoughts/ideas come from on this subject.  I always started the swim season (not that I ever really had an "off-season") with sets of 500's for the first couple weeks to month---this was all before any competition so think of it as base work.  Then after that and for the rest of the season it was "shorter" sets....now this wasn't taper type of sets---fast swim with lots of rest---it was grueling sets---think what bryan said----sets of 20x100 on 1:10 (as in swim in 1:00 to get 10 sec rest---or my "favorite" set which was 10x100 on 1:00---as in swim sub 1:00 to get any rest!!).  The idea was "short" distance---100 or 200 but with just enough rest to make you realize it hurt.  DC---think of it this way---20x100 on a "fast" time that leaves little rest is really just what we called a "broken 2,000" when I swam---that's doing a "longer" distance with 5 secs rest every 100 yet still trying to go faster then if just doing a straight swim---so if you would just straight swim a 10:30 1,000 then you should try to do the broken 1,000 faster then the 10:30 including the "rest" of 5 sec/100.  This WILL make you faster at distance 10-20 secs rest per 100/200 isn't enough to let you recover if you are SWIMMING the set---I'm a HUGE advocate of swimming a set on a given TIME not REST---this meaning if your fastest 100yd time is 1:10 then do a set of 10x100 on 1:30 (or faster) so that you are swimming the 100's in 1:15 to slowest of 1:20 and getting no more then 15 sec rest (you EARN more rest by swimming faster...)----I feel this is better then just swimming 10x100 with 15 sec rest---unless you are swimming all the 100's at the same FAST time...too many people slack off and still get the rest without earning it!!  Oh and to make sure you aren't a slacker--make sure to TRY and descend the last three of any set (if you can easily do this then you were slacking the rest of the set!)

Now ALL that said---by all means for tri (and specifically HIM and IM distance) work in some longer TT type swims---the other benefit of sets is a feeling for PACE so make those longer TT's hard efforts done correctly---ie.  Do a 1,000 TT and make sure you negative split the 500's (again go back to best 100 TT time of 1:10 and doing sets holding 1:15---make your first 500 ave 1:20/100 for a first half of 6:40 THEN descend to 1:17 or better/100 the second half for a 6:25)----you'll be surprised how fast you can get to the point where you can do your 1,000 TT at a pace of pretty darn close to what you hold for a set of 20x100's!!! 

Mike, I couldn't agree more.  Take plenty of time in transition.   

Jammers during the swim; aren't you wearing a wetsuit? 

I'm pretty sure you're not talking about me, but just to give you a for instance:  I am doing Long Runs right now and will be doing an 18-miler and 20-miler later this month, but my reason for this is because I want to go sub 1:30 at a half marathon in March, and if I don't get it done at that half, I'm doing another in early May.  I'm also going to focus strong on the Bike this Spring with shorter transition runs (BRICKS) off the bike, and then build the volume back up in June.  For me LP is not the only Goal this year.  

Also, I've been building to this Run volume since early November; and I also recover for half marathons very quickly because I've been running them consistently for four years straight.  I don't recommend this anyone.

Mike, the more time you spend in transition the more of a chance of me finishing ahead of you, so please: take your time in transition.  Heck bring four different sets of cycling outfits and sip a latte while you figure out which one to wear   I say this cause your likely going to beat me on the bike so I'll need as much time as possible to catch you on the run.

Like Bryan said, I am K.I.S.S at LP.  I'm putting on my team Tri top and Tri bottom.  Then throwing my wetsuit on over it.  Come out of the swim, have wetsuit stripper rip my suit off, then I just have to throw on socks, sunglasses, helmet and Garmin and I'm off.  I've never worn cycling pants ever, so I'm not going to start now.  My Sugoi tri-shorts have a nice comfy pad, and they always dry within 10 minutes of being out of the water and on the bike.

For nutrition I am sticking to clif bars, gu gels, gatorade and water -- the same exact stuff I use every single day in training.   I think/ hope this plan is Simple enough!!