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Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! (Page 43)
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 2011-02-01 6:18 AM in reply to: #3256949 |
Master  1779    |  Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED!We have an "Artic Blast" coming our way this evening! Highs of 39 and lows of 22. Brrrr! lol. They may have to shut down Houston. Ha! |
| 2011-02-01 7:38 AM in reply to: #3332438 |
Elite 3779  Ontario | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! Fred Doucette - 2011-02-01 7:05 AM Finished a 45 min spin on the trainer. I have a big day of workouts tomorrow, but am pretty exhausted. Just letting you know that even I get exhausted/ burned out a bit  Brings up a good question - when do you say that's it, I need a break, or I need to take it a little easier on the workouts? If the fatigue is building how do you decide when to push through it, and when not to? |
| 2011-02-01 7:55 AM in reply to: #3332459 |
Master 1402 Highlands Ranch | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! Thats pretty cold for the gulf! Right now its -11 with a wind chill down to -30 or so in Denver, but we only have two inches of snow on the ground. I will try to run and swim tonight if the Rec Centers don't close due to the weather. |
| 2011-02-01 9:03 AM in reply to: #3332598 |
Expert 943 Highlands Ranch, CO | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! StMaas - 2011-02-01 6:55 AM Thats pretty cold for the gulf! Right now its -11 with a wind chill down to -30 or so in Denver, but we only have two inches of snow on the ground. I will try to run and swim tonight if the Rec Centers don't close due to the weather. To add to Steve's post, schools are closed today due to the temps. I get to work from home which allows me much more freedoms including catching up with the group. My focus these past few days has been on the pending arrival of Casey and while I am doing my workouts, I spent most of my spare time re-educating myself about puppyhood, puppy proofing the house and purchasing all the things needed for Casey. I have to say it has been nice to focus on something else for a few days. I see a chiropractor who specializes working with with athletes. He did a gait analysis on me (videotape and all) and apparently I have to teach myself how to run differently. This has proved to be quite an undertaking and while I don't know if I will ever be able to make all the changes I am trying to work on some of them. It is going to take a lot of repetition. Edited by Kath2163 2011-02-01 9:03 AM |
| 2011-02-01 9:56 AM in reply to: #3256949 |
Master 1411 Lexington, KY | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! Hi all. Unplanned day off yesterday for me with a sick 5 yo. He's much improved now, and I got today off to a good start with a ride on the steel horse. Anyone in the path of that nasty storm tearing through the midwest? Fortunately, we're missing the brunt of it. Kathleen - I've been thinking about getting a gait analysis. Anyone else have comments on the benefits of a gait analysis? I've got a minor leg length discrepancy and compensate for it with a homemade lift. It seems adequate for HIM/IM paces, but I do get some hamstring problems when I run fastish and am wondering if a professional analysis might help. |
| 2011-02-01 10:09 AM in reply to: #3256949 |
Champion 19812 MA | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! How many of you bilateral breath? Do you do it both training and racing? Have a preference? Struggle to get it? If you learned later after you had been swimming awhile did it help you? I have tried every winter to get bilateral breathing and work on it but never master it. For me I feel off balance when I breath left, my catch on right is off, and compared to breathing every 2nd stroke to every 3rd feel more breathless. Finding Freestyle coaches are really encouraging me to learn to breath left..I think it will balance my stroke out, get more power on my left side, and more. I can do breath every 3rd if swimming slow, or do something like R, R, L, R, R. I try to do up one side and back the other side....really messes me up. I realize if I bilateral breath training my stroke can balanced out more and race only breathing one side. I can do it if I go easy. I have to do a bit of drills like 1 arm swimming doing some easy swimming doing 1 beat left kicking. As soon as I stop focusing on it and do more swim training working harder I fall back to my old right breathing. Any suggestions? |
| 2011-02-01 10:17 AM in reply to: #3256949 |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! Honestly, just do it. If you really want to bilateral breath then just don't allow yourself to breath on one side. For the same reasons that you pointed out above, I made the switch to bilateral breathing early on, and found that it helped balance me out, as well as force me not to overdo things - since I couldn't breathe as often. I train and race bilateral, but have found it really helpful in OWS when the chop is forcing you to only breathe on one side. At this point, I actually don't remember which was my dominant side. |
| 2011-02-01 10:28 AM in reply to: #3256949 |
Master 1411 Lexington, KY | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! Kathy - I too struggle with bilateral breathing. It always feels awkward. Similar to how I feel when I try to write with my opposite hand. I can fake it, but it never feels natural and the result isn't pretty. When I was working on bilateral breathing, I found it very helpful to start by using a pull buoy until I felt like I was doing ~OK with that, and then switch to swimming. |
| 2011-02-01 10:32 AM in reply to: #3332932 |
Expert 943 Highlands Ranch, CO | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! wiky - 2011-02-01 8:56 AM Hi all. Unplanned day off yesterday for me with a sick 5 yo. He's much improved now, and I got today off to a good start with a ride on the steel horse. Anyone in the path of that nasty storm tearing through the midwest? Fortunately, we're missing the brunt of it. Kathleen - I've been thinking about getting a gait analysis. Anyone else have comments on the benefits of a gait analysis? I've got a minor leg length discrepancy and compensate for it with a homemade lift. It seems adequate for HIM/IM paces, but I do get some hamstring problems when I run fastish and am wondering if a professional analysis might help. I have a leg length discrepancy also. Actually my femor and one of my shin bones on my right leg are shorter. The Podiatrist ordered a X ray and Cat Scan to figure it out. Apparently this is a protical he designed. Anyway, he added a lift to my orthotic which seems to have helped. Not so much pain but still some. I was using one of those rubber lifts but the one attached to my orthotic is much better. My hamstring problems are in my longer leg. I have compensated for the difference my whole life so there is a lot of changes to be made. |
| 2011-02-01 10:35 AM in reply to: #3256949 |
Expert 943 Highlands Ranch, CO | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! Kathy, I tought myself to bilateral breath last year. I like it SO much better. I naturally breath on the left and find it hard when I just try to breath on my right but doing bilateral breathing is so much smoother for me then just breathing on my left all of the time. I have done bilateral breathing in some races but do favor my left in races due to being more anxious or whatever. Edited by Kath2163 2011-02-01 10:36 AM |
| 2011-02-01 10:58 AM in reply to: #3256949 |
Expert 943 Highlands Ranch, CO | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! Infinit sale If anyone uses Infinit or is thinking about trying it, today is the day. 50% off from 12-2pm est and the discounts drop from there. Here is a link that should lead you to the sale. http://www.infinitloop.com/2011/01/rules-and-disclaimers-for-infinits-big.html |
| 2011-02-01 12:06 PM in reply to: #3256949 |
Elite 2998 Fishers, Indiana | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! Some good Jan numbers for everyone, here are mine:
Missed a couple of swims due to pool closings, yet have actually made some gains by focusing on some technique issues I had, so feeling nice there. I'm sure the bike is going to keep going up, but my run load has been something more than I usually have--but it's been through adding some shorter stuff more often in the week than I did before. Anyhow, coach has me focusing on it a bit more due to a half-mary next month....lots of the runs have been a mix of hard and easy, with some of the hard towards the end to focus on going harder at end of the long run. Will be interesting to see how things go. Yesterday I was pretty whooped from the weekend when I went to the pool, but had a good session...so, that's encouraging. Kathy- I am not good at bilaterally breathing either. I can do it if I NEED to, but I don't like to, and it messes with my technique. So, I'll do it just a few times to make sure I can do it in case I need to do so in a race, but I don't put lots of effort into trying to make it natural....didn't seem worth the effort to me! | |
 2011-02-01 5:13 PM in reply to: #3256949 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. Edited by Fred Doucette 2011-02-01 5:14 PM |
| 2011-02-01 5:56 PM in reply to: #3334058 |
| Master 2912 ...at home in The ATL | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! Fred Doucette - 2011-02-01 6:13 PM I periodically check in on the IMLP thread as I know a lot of the people doing the race. I saw something that truly struck me in regards to bike volume before an IM. What do you think about doing 70 hours per month on the bike in the two months prior to an IM? I don't have the personal time to do that, but is it something you would do if you COULD? Do you think volume like this is good bad or both for an ironman. Volume is a subject I've thought about a lot in IM training and am interested to hear the group's thoughts? I am beginning to think there is something about IMLP that makes folks a little nutty...  Seriously though, from the get-go kaburns has been pretty clear about wanting to be solid on the IMLP bike course, and has a clear plan of attack. She has been posting big numbers each month, and incrementally increasing them. She has a plan that she has worked through, and while it is not mine, more power to her, I say. I love, love, love cycling, and have on occasion put in those kind of numbers. What I cannot figure out is where do you get the extra 30 hours for everything else!?!  There are definately some big January numbers in this group as well. Here are mine:
I am hoping to get through this week without dropping too much, but the next two weeks are going to be a wash with a year's worth of work coming finally coming to a head. Then taking some time off in Mexico with the beautiful bride, and back on it full-bore in March. I hope I can at least manage to hold my gains through the next three weeks. Thanks for everybody posting their thoughts, schedules, and stories - I continue to find the group very motivational. | |
| 2011-02-01 6:04 PM in reply to: #3332978 |
| Master 2912 ...at home in The ATL | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! Hi Kathy - I have been a left side, two stroke breather for 19 years. I don't have too much trouble switching if I need to in a race for some reason, but the left side is definitely pretty ingrained. My coach has been pretty insistent that I work on my bilateral breathing however - says the balance it will provide will be very important for injury prevention as I continue to build up the IM yardage. Four months ago, it was all I could do to force myself into it, but last night I went 4600 yards bilateral (3500 of it straight through) and did not think about it a single time . While a lot of little things have helped, if I had to pick only one thing that flipped the switch it is the 3/5/7 stroke drills. 50 yards breathing every 7 strokes used to DESTROY me (it is still hard) but it sure makes every 3 seem normal, and I even find myself on occasion going every 5 before I realize it. This is all base-pace of course, when go into steady-state tempo I go into a 2/3 pattern as needed - sprinting is head down until I need to breathe, then immediately to every 2 strokes. The advice to stick with it is good, and just go as easy as you have to in order to stick with it. At least that is what worked for me. |
| 2011-02-01 6:06 PM in reply to: #3334109 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. Edited by Fred Doucette 2011-02-01 6:06 PM |
| 2011-02-01 6:35 PM in reply to: #3334127 |
| Champion 19812 MA | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! Fred Doucette - 2011-02-01 7:06 PM Seriously though, from the get-go kaburns has been pretty clear about wanting to be solid on the IMLP bike course, and has a clear plan of attack. She has been posting big numbers each month, and incrementally increasing them. She has a plan that she has worked through, and while it is not mine, more power to her, I say. I love, love, love cycling, and have on occasion put in those kind of numbers. What I cannot figure out is where do you get the extra 30 hours for everything else!?! Did you find that kind of volume helpful? Do you think that is a good way to be solid on a bike course? btw great numbers yourself! She is coached by QT2 systems and they are big on volume not intensity to build durability but they use a different term for that. The coaching group is local to me and I know most of the earlier coaches. They have great success with their athletes and attract fast athletes. Often top 10 or 20 at local race they will have 50% of the top folks. Question to me is how do you like to train, how can it fit into your life and what works for you? Training load is combination of intensity and time so different ways to have same training load. QT2 is big thing is hitting critical volume and if you can't do it consider doing a shorter race. I don't recall the exact number but I think they want athletes to train in biggest volume weeks for IM something like 3x the distance of the race and for IM they like you to do 150% of that so riding 400-450 miles/week for biggest weeks; run I think I think they want folks to get up to 40-50 miles per week at max and run training time should be about 1/4 of bike training; swim training is about 12-15K yards but I'm not sure it could be more. They have an articles on their website that explains there view and I tried to find the link to it but you have to join their site which is free to access it now where it used to be just a link. I know Kelly and she started with a QT2 systems coach in June and since than has set PBs in all distances. She just got married last fall and is an attorney. If you hire a coach best to have trust in what they are doing and agree to do what they have laid out for you in training. For me I like a combination of volume and intensity. Running I tend to do more E type running but on the bike if I don't do intervals in zones 3 and above I don't get better. I talk with one of their coaches a lot...came in 4th in his AG in first IM at LP in '08 and came in 10:0?, last two non Kona IMs he has won his AG and this year was in top 10 in his AG. Pretty impressive results. For IMSG in '10 he did 6 days a week on CT and I recall he had biked outdoors 100 miles prior to the IM. Question to me, would training 20-30 hours a week be fun? work? is KQing worth the sacrifice? I don't have Kona in me or desire to go so I want to train and have fun doing so. I like to train 10-12 hours a week most weeks before IM build. |
| 2011-02-01 6:36 PM in reply to: #3330849 |
| Master 2912 ...at home in The ATL | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! kr140.6 - 2011-01-31 12:10 PM Super January numbers everyone! Neil, I think you said this was the most biking you've done ever... awesome. Hi Kate - I read the article - pretty interesting. It looks like the REALLY interesting article is referenced in the Bruni article, called "Against Exercise" by Mark Greif. I could not find the original but it was reprinted in Harpers in 2004 in an article called "The Fit and the Dead." It is not available online anywhere for free, but I popped into our library today and made a copy - I have scanned through it quickly; I look forward to reading it a little closer soon - thanks for the tip! |
). | 2011-02-01 6:38 PM in reply to: #3334058 |
| Master 1779 | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! Fred Doucette - 2011-02-01 5:13 PM I periodically check in on the IMLP thread as I know a lot of the people doing the race. I saw something that truly struck me in regards to bike volume before an IM. What do you think about doing 70 hours per month on the bike in the two months prior to an IM? I don't have the personal time to do that, but is it something you would do if you COULD? Do you think volume like this is good bad or both for an ironman. Volume is a subject I've thought about a lot in IM training and am interested to hear the group's thoughts? Even if I had the time I wouldn't put in 70 hours per month on the bike. Volume debate aside, I'd rather spend the extra time with my family. I couldn't consume enough food to fuel IM training and that many additional bike hours per month. What type of work are we talking about in those 70 hours? Everyone has a different level of volume that they can handle before their bodies start to react or break down. My old body seems to react more lately to any type of stress so extra volume isn't an option.  I think volume has its place if you aren't used to riding/running/swimming distance and need confidence in your abilities. Edited by Catwoman 2011-02-01 6:42 PM |
| 2011-02-01 6:53 PM in reply to: #3334127 |
| Master 2912 ...at home in The ATL | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! Fred Doucette - 2011-02-01 7:06 PM Seriously though, from the get-go kaburns has been pretty clear about wanting to be solid on the IMLP bike course, and has a clear plan of attack. She has been posting big numbers each month, and incrementally increasing them. She has a plan that she has worked through, and while it is not mine, more power to her, I say. I love, love, love cycling, and have on occasion put in those kind of numbers. What I cannot figure out is where do you get the extra 30 hours for everything else!?! Did you find that kind of volume helpful? Do you think that is a good way to be solid on a bike course? btw great numbers yourself! Hey Fred, that is a great but tough question - depends on what you mean by "helpful" and "solid." I have spent a good bit of my time working out simply because I like to workout. Riding that many miles on the bike was awesome, simply because riding that much is awesome - it was not for a reason, or an end goal, riding was the thing all by itself. During those periods I still raced, and if I were to be completely honest about it, probably WAY too much and too often. But again, I was not training for peak performance, I was simply riding hours and hours because it was fun to ride hours and hours, day after day. In other words I was racing because I was fit enough to, but it was definitely a side thing. Currently, I AM training specifically to race reasonably well, at a distance that I have never raced, and at one particular race. Based on my specific goals and plan to attain them, I would have to say emphatically "NO." In fact riding 70 hours would most likely have a detrimental effect on me meeting my goals. My guess is that I will at the most have a couple of 40 hour bike months - maybe. I am currently training to race, instead of the other way around. But that said, while I am not riding giant miles, I am doing my own weird stuff. For instance, just this past weekend, it was 70 degrees outside, not a cloud in a crystal blue sky, and I sat my butt on the trainer and did a very particular grueling one-and-a-half hour power-based workout without even thinking about it or questioning it. So we all do seemingly crazy things. Whether or not they are truly nutty is really based purely on our true goals and motivations. We probably really oughta ask kaburns herself about her motivations - she is in the forum right next door! ------------> oh - and I should mention, I am off to do that same horrible trainer workout again right now. Like I said, crazy. ugh. Edited by TankBoy 2011-02-01 6:59 PM |
| 2011-02-01 7:16 PM in reply to: #3256949 |
| Champion 19812 MA | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! I found the details on what QT2 recommend for their critical volume... Swim - 9/3 of the event distance per week Swim = 2.4 miles = 4220 yds x 9/3 = 12,660yds Bike = 112 miles x 8/3 x 150% = 450 miles Run = 26.2 x 7/3 = 60 miles In the past I've briefly considered using them for coaching since I know them but just doing a gut check it would feel like work instead of my passion and it wouldn't work well for me.The head coach did a series of videos that are here on BT..if interested check them out. Edited by KathyG 2011-02-01 7:29 PM |
| 2011-02-01 7:28 PM in reply to: #3256949 |
| Champion 19812 MA | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! Today I did 3' power test. I wasn't sure how to pace the effort and had to keep increasing watts on erg throughout the interval so pacing was a bit off. On PT power was 206 and on Cinqo it was 199. Given where I am totally surprised as my last test in September I was at 201 and my high of the year back in April before I was injured was 217. I'm doing the 20' test Thursday and very curious how that will turn out. |
| 2011-02-01 7:31 PM in reply to: #3256949 |
| Master 3058 South Alabama | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! Lots of interesting discussion today. Bilateral breathing-yeah, well kind of. When I started swimming 2 years ago I would breathe to the right every stroke cycle. Last winter I decided I would learn to breathe to the left. Did that and then started having some range of motion issues breathing to the right so went left always. If I am swimming hard or racing it is every stroke cycle to the left. I breathe bilaterally when doing the drills in the Finding Freestyle program and would like to get to the point of breathing every 3rd stroke bilaterally. I feel much more balanced when doing that and is probably better for my shoulders. But, in a race I will always breathe to the left and occassionally to the right for sighting. Training volume-no way I could do 70 hours on the bike in a month. My wife who is tolerant, supportive and mildly amused by all my workout "costumes" would probably boot my A$$ out the door. Taking a few more days off from running. Calf feeling better after ART today but trying to play it safe..........nothing on the calendar in the next two months so a few lost miles will not kill me. Hope all you folks in the NE get through this next storm safely. Randy |
| 2011-02-01 7:39 PM in reply to: #3334203 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. Edited by Fred Doucette 2011-02-01 7:43 PM |
| 2011-02-01 7:41 PM in reply to: #3256949 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
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