Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! (Page 44)

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yep - same here. General volume is not really a problem, but specific volume is. I can do really high volume on the bike, but have proven over the years to be pretty fragile on the run, and a little so on the swim. Historically if I do back to back to back 45+ miles of running every week I will come apart. We are working on that though with strength training - I look forward to seeing if it works. So far on the swim my durability has increased tremendously. I look at te run volume many of you are capable of and I am a little envious!For the most part higher volumes are not a problem. Work ebbs and flows in predictable patterns and at regular intervals throughout the semester. The predictability of periods of great intensity followed by periods of relative autonomy and freedom is actually a big, big help in organizing training blocks. I am fortunate in that I can often get some of my big days in during the week thus freeing up the weekend for doing stuff with the non-triathlete circle of friends and family. My wife is pretty heavy into this nutty sport as well, along with many of our friends and extended family, particulary on her side, so it is a big part of our general social/family life as well.

Hey Neil - I was struck by a simple answer to this question this evening on the trainer. When your calves lock up like knotty bricks, it is time to throw in the towel and live to fight another day!

Hello all

Its been a while since I have posted in here, but I have been following up on the thread. It is hard to keep up,a as most of the discussion is going on when im sleeping ower here :-).

Im on week 9 of the 30 week intermediate plan from be iron fit, and things are going great. I was concerned with all the low intensity stuff in the base phase of the plan, I was afraid that I would loose fitness. (The first 10 weeks of the plan are only zone 2 work) But it has worked out really well. Im getting faster, and no injuries nagging me.

I mentoned earlier that I would be borrowing a ISM adamo road saddle from a local dealer. I newer got it, and he did not return my mails, so I bought one off ebay and got it monday, I will have my first ride on it this evening on the trainer, wery excited about that.

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Sure, I will make a post in the evening, when I have had my first ride on it.

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To say it publicly, I want to KQ (its kind of scary to say it publicly because then people start to have expectations).  I don't think its going to happen at IMLP, mostly because I don't think my bike will be where it needs to be (watts/kg ratio will be too low to really work the hills and still have what I'll need to run a 3:50 or so marathon).  Based on my current fitness and my planned training, I can't see myself going faster than 11:30 and that's not going to get me a slot at Placid.  IMLP is going to essentially be a really good dry run for IMFL in November.

Now, with regard to training, I work one-on-one with Doug Maclean at QT2.  We've been working together since June of 2010.  As Kathy correctly stated, QT2's general philosophy is to safely reach critical volume at all three disciplines in order to maximize your speed potential at any given race.  The reason for this is to build peripheral system durability-- essentially when long course racing your legs (and head) give out long before your cardiovascular system and the best way to improve that limiter is through lots of aerobic volume. 

If you look at my logs, QT2's method to safely get an athlete to critical volume is through lots of aerobic base training.  After HalfMax last year I took two full weeks off and then went into three four-week base cycles, in which I raced at the end of each rest week (as a side note my annual plan is based off of 900 hours of total annual training).  I'm now in the fourth week of a single 4-week build period and will go back for another set of three four-week base cycles before building into IMLP.  With my base and build cycles the volume increases slightly every week (I've gone from 14 hours/week in October to about 18-19 hours/week now and will max out at 26 hours/week), the real difference between base and build cycles is intensity.  During base cycles all of my work (except for Sunday bike intervals and races) is in QT2 Zone 1 (aerobic pace, which is about a Joe Friel Z2).  Keeping my intensity to Zone 1 is tough, but really training slower has worked to make me much faster (I actually just wrote a post about this in my blog -- www.purringhedgehog.com)  and completely injury-free.  During build phases we add in work in QT2 Zone 2 (Friel Zone 3) and some Best Sustainable Efforts.  Now I lack base, so I have lots and lots of base this year, going forward (into 2012 and 2013 I will have less base because I've will have already built a strong foundation).

The other half of the getting faster equation is working on my body composition.  I work with Leslie Reap at QT2 (the nutritionist is part of the coaching package) at trying to get my BF down to about 12%.  For me, the training is much easier than the body composition. 

Since starting to work with QT2, I've PRed every time I've raced.  I've knocked over 30 minutes off my half time to get down to 5:29 (on a long bike course), taken my Olympic down to 2:37 and my half marathon to 1:53.  Based on my training, I should see even bigger PRs in 2011.

This response has gotten really long.  If you have any questions, let me know. 

Interesting post, Kelly. I look forward to seeing how you do with this. I certainly have had a lot of experience with high volume training. If you ever want to chat, please feel free to visit me. By the way, I'm at my fathers home in Greenwich CT right now covered in ice! Need to get home to AZ ASAP!

Hey Fred - good luck on the 8 minute test - looking forward to a report. Happy thoughts and lots of power being beamed your way!I think it is ok to talk about anything that is posted on BT (or any other public forum) - I mean that is ultimately the point, right? When we post our monthly totals, of course we are hoping for positive feedback: if our training is up, we get an "atta boy!" and when it is down we get a "hang in there, little buddy!" I already know I will need lots of those this month, BTW - so keep 'em coming. But equally implicit in anything we post here is the underlying and fundamental question, "this is what I do/think - what do YOU think about that?" I am of the opinion that you Fred are one of a handful of BT ambassadors on exactly how to do that in a polite yet provocative and informative way. I did not think you were calling out kaburns at all. in fact, just the opposite - you seemed genuinely intrigued (I know I am) by something interesting that someone in the BT community was doing and wanted to know more about it, that's all.Hope everyone stays safe in the ice and snow. We have nothing but a miserable, chilly multi-day downpour going on here in the south east.

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Edited by Fred Doucette 2011-02-02 8:01 AM

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good morning! This winter is something. 

My .02 about high volume (interesting discussion) is that my old body just wouldn't do it injury free.  When I look at my January #'s they are funny to me: 21 hours bike, 13 run, 7.5 swim...I won't even touch on the swim  but what is funny to me is that I think of myself  as a runner but I definitely gravitate to the bike more because I feel I am just inviting injury more with the run (as much as I'd like to do more...well and will do more in the coming months)...long gone are the days of running 6 days a week for me (ah the days) those days were for younger legs.   I have been running for about 20 years and I once heard an orthopedic surgeon say human legs have about 20 years of running in them (of course this isn't exactly the case and different folks are different but I do think he was on to something )

Me too..

If I test more often it plays less in my head...and I dislike it more when I suspect my results aren't what I hope they'll be

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One final thought -- I don't necessarily think that I do "high volume" training, I think of it more in terms of doing the volume I need to do to reach my goals.  Then again I know other (QT2) athletes who have significantly higher volume. 

For those who might be interested I've attached my histogram, which shows my weekly trianing volume on an annaul basis (this one runs from mid-October 2010 to mid-October 2011).

**Ok - I tried to attach the .pdf but I can't get it small enough **


Edited by kaburns1214 2011-02-02 10:12 AM

I haven’t done any testing this year or last.  I should do some.
 
Fred what would you suggest I do on the CompuTrainer? 
 
 
btw;
 
I am really getting on board with this low cadence training (rpm’s).  I did a session yesterday and for the 1st hour I pumped out 200 watts at 70rpms and 123bpm HR.  The low HR is what amazed me. 
 
When I cranked it up for the 300 watts intervals at 75-80rpms my HR rate rose to 150’s. 

Real good stuff!

Ha!  Your 8min is basically my 3min.  Nice job.

As to testing indoors vs outdoors, I think you and I disagreed about this a couple of years ago in Jorge's winter cycling program.  I'm a big believer in indoor trainer testing.  I think you eliminate the outside variables that can skew test results.  The big caveat with this statement - I've never done an outdoor test, but maybe I will this year.  My issue is finding somewhere reasonably flat - everything has ups and downs around here.

The one thing I do find with indoor testing is that I have complete focus on the task at hand.  It's miserable, and it hurts, but all I'm thinking about is turning the pedals over.  I'm not thinking about cars, road conditions, etc.  For me that's important - and in my mind it allows me to push harder.  Now whether that actually translates to a better test result, I don't know.  But maybe I'll give an outdoor test a try this Spring and see how it goes.

Neil,
 
Do you have any advice about what I should do for test on a CT?
 
Thanks.