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 2013-09-03 2:21 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Extreme Veteran  3025    Maryland |  Subject: RE: SyriaOriginally posted by Left Brain Kinda hard to apply logic to that region......I'm sticking with "I don't care". You don't have to, I just happen to because I have family in that region. I actually don't think we should do anything, but no one was arguing the point that we have a moral responsibility to I was trying to fill in |
| 2013-09-03 2:36 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Pro 9391  Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Syria Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by powerman So, we have a topic on Syria, and you use it to take some shots on those you think are taking shots. I have someone I think you would like to meet.... But let's take your example of 2000 kids gassed. Russia does not threaten to withhold all military aid if chemical weapons are used again. France does not send their warships to the area. Britain does not plan airal strikes. Nobody in the region condemns their actions. Nobody tries to play third party and broker a peace. Nobody has any other thoughts outside the box.... and yet the U.S. is the only one that is supposed to take military action? The U.S. is the only country that has to take the heat from extremist Muslims that vow revenge? The U.S. is the only country on the planet that will lift a finger over kids getting gassed.... ya, what's wrong with that picture? Someone crashes their bike on the side of the road, and everyone else drives by. Do you drive by too just because no one else stopped? Ya... great example. I most certainly would ignore sovereign borders and kill people to help the cyclist. fine I'll rephrase. You see someone beating a cyclist to death at the side of the road, and everyone is driving by, do you drive by too? Still completely different scenario because we're both in the same country and there IS a police force that is responsible for their safety. I would personally call 911, stop and tell the dude to stop beating him and the police are on their way. I wouldn't engage in the physical altercation unless I had no other choice because I have a wife and kids that expect me to come home. I also have no clue what the context of the altercation is, perhaps the guy on top doing the beating is the good guy and was defending himself from the crazy cyclist.
Instead of creating caveats why don't you (or someone) answer the thrust of the question. When you're in a situation where you see someone being beaten to death, and no one around is helping. There are no police or by the time they got there he'd be dead. What do you do? That is the situation we are in. Innocent people are dying. The rest of the world is too afraid to save them. We are the only ones who will do something. Did you read my post? I think I described exactly what I'd do. Here, I'll copy and paste it again for you: I would personally call 911, stop and tell the dude to stop beating him and the police are on their way. I wouldn't engage in the physical altercation unless I had no other choice because I have a wife and kids that expect me to come home. I also have no clue what the context of the altercation is, perhaps the guy on top doing the beating is the good guy and was defending himself from the crazy cyclist. My job isn't to protect people from being beaten to death in a situation I know nothing about. I carry a firearm to protect myself and my family from getting into a situation where I am beaten to death. I don't carry one to protect others, they can carry one for themselves if they so choose to. This is the attitude that leads to things like the Holocaust. You are selfish. As a human being you have a responsiblity to care for other human beings around you. If I see some woman getting raped I don't say, welllll I have a family to get back to and she could have carried a gun to protect herself, I better sit this one out. No, I would help her. There are people in this world that cannot protect themselves, and it is the duty of strong people around them to protect them. Otherwise we are just animals. I've been called worse. So, are you joining the military when you get off work today? I wouldn't want you to be accused of being selfish as well. Also, I'd like to see the list of other countries you plan to invade when you get done with Syria. You're going to be a busy fella because there are a lot of people being killed all over the world. The difference is the use of chemical weapons. Whether you like it or not, that is a line that the neighborhood kids drew in the sand, and when someone steps over it there should be consequences. So, what if we unilaterally lob a few bombs/missiles in and kill a few thousand people for ourselves? What does that accomplish? Obama himself said he didn't want a regime change, so we wouldn't be going after Assad. I guess we can beat our chest and say "see, we told you not to cross the line". The only way to truly hold them "accountable" would be to either kill or bring to justice the people responsible for using the chemical weapons and the only way to do that would be to invade Syria and wipe out Assad. Now we're in another Iraq/Afghanistan with thousands of American lives potentially being lost over the next 5-10 years because we can't just let the rebels <cough>Al Queda</cough> take over the Syrian government. |
| 2013-09-03 3:45 PM in reply to: tuwood |
Champion 34263 Chicago | Subject: RE: Syria We should definitely not go. Unless Obama decides not to, then we should, of course. |
| 2013-09-03 3:55 PM in reply to: tuwood |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Syria Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by powerman So, we have a topic on Syria, and you use it to take some shots on those you think are taking shots. I have someone I think you would like to meet.... But let's take your example of 2000 kids gassed. Russia does not threaten to withhold all military aid if chemical weapons are used again. France does not send their warships to the area. Britain does not plan airal strikes. Nobody in the region condemns their actions. Nobody tries to play third party and broker a peace. Nobody has any other thoughts outside the box.... and yet the U.S. is the only one that is supposed to take military action? The U.S. is the only country that has to take the heat from extremist Muslims that vow revenge? The U.S. is the only country on the planet that will lift a finger over kids getting gassed.... ya, what's wrong with that picture? Someone crashes their bike on the side of the road, and everyone else drives by. Do you drive by too just because no one else stopped? Ya... great example. I most certainly would ignore sovereign borders and kill people to help the cyclist. fine I'll rephrase. You see someone beating a cyclist to death at the side of the road, and everyone is driving by, do you drive by too? Still completely different scenario because we're both in the same country and there IS a police force that is responsible for their safety. I would personally call 911, stop and tell the dude to stop beating him and the police are on their way. I wouldn't engage in the physical altercation unless I had no other choice because I have a wife and kids that expect me to come home. I also have no clue what the context of the altercation is, perhaps the guy on top doing the beating is the good guy and was defending himself from the crazy cyclist.
Instead of creating caveats why don't you (or someone) answer the thrust of the question. When you're in a situation where you see someone being beaten to death, and no one around is helping. There are no police or by the time they got there he'd be dead. What do you do? That is the situation we are in. Innocent people are dying. The rest of the world is too afraid to save them. We are the only ones who will do something. Did you read my post? I think I described exactly what I'd do. Here, I'll copy and paste it again for you: I would personally call 911, stop and tell the dude to stop beating him and the police are on their way. I wouldn't engage in the physical altercation unless I had no other choice because I have a wife and kids that expect me to come home. I also have no clue what the context of the altercation is, perhaps the guy on top doing the beating is the good guy and was defending himself from the crazy cyclist. My job isn't to protect people from being beaten to death in a situation I know nothing about. I carry a firearm to protect myself and my family from getting into a situation where I am beaten to death. I don't carry one to protect others, they can carry one for themselves if they so choose to. This is the attitude that leads to things like the Holocaust. You are selfish. As a human being you have a responsiblity to care for other human beings around you. If I see some woman getting raped I don't say, welllll I have a family to get back to and she could have carried a gun to protect herself, I better sit this one out. No, I would help her. There are people in this world that cannot protect themselves, and it is the duty of strong people around them to protect them. Otherwise we are just animals. I've been called worse. So, are you joining the military when you get off work today? I wouldn't want you to be accused of being selfish as well. Also, I'd like to see the list of other countries you plan to invade when you get done with Syria. You're going to be a busy fella because there are a lot of people being killed all over the world. The difference is the use of chemical weapons. Whether you like it or not, that is a line that the neighborhood kids drew in the sand, and when someone steps over it there should be consequences. So, what if we unilaterally lob a few bombs/missiles in and kill a few thousand people for ourselves? What does that accomplish? Obama himself said he didn't want a regime change, so we wouldn't be going after Assad. I guess we can beat our chest and say "see, we told you not to cross the line". The only way to truly hold them "accountable" would be to either kill or bring to justice the people responsible for using the chemical weapons and the only way to do that would be to invade Syria and wipe out Assad. Now we're in another Iraq/Afghanistan with thousands of American lives potentially being lost over the next 5-10 years because we can't just let the rebelsAl Quedatake over the Syrian government. Thats a straw man argument |
| 2013-09-03 4:53 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Syria Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by powerman So, we have a topic on Syria, and you use it to take some shots on those you think are taking shots. I have someone I think you would like to meet.... But let's take your example of 2000 kids gassed. Russia does not threaten to withhold all military aid if chemical weapons are used again. France does not send their warships to the area. Britain does not plan airal strikes. Nobody in the region condemns their actions. Nobody tries to play third party and broker a peace. Nobody has any other thoughts outside the box.... and yet the U.S. is the only one that is supposed to take military action? The U.S. is the only country that has to take the heat from extremist Muslims that vow revenge? The U.S. is the only country on the planet that will lift a finger over kids getting gassed.... ya, what's wrong with that picture? Someone crashes their bike on the side of the road, and everyone else drives by. Do you drive by too just because no one else stopped? Ya... great example. I most certainly would ignore sovereign borders and kill people to help the cyclist. fine I'll rephrase. You see someone beating a cyclist to death at the side of the road, and everyone is driving by, do you drive by too? Still completely different scenario because we're both in the same country and there IS a police force that is responsible for their safety. I would personally call 911, stop and tell the dude to stop beating him and the police are on their way. I wouldn't engage in the physical altercation unless I had no other choice because I have a wife and kids that expect me to come home. I also have no clue what the context of the altercation is, perhaps the guy on top doing the beating is the good guy and was defending himself from the crazy cyclist.
Instead of creating caveats why don't you (or someone) answer the thrust of the question. When you're in a situation where you see someone being beaten to death, and no one around is helping. There are no police or by the time they got there he'd be dead. What do you do? That is the situation we are in. Innocent people are dying. The rest of the world is too afraid to save them. We are the only ones who will do something. Did you read my post? I think I described exactly what I'd do. Here, I'll copy and paste it again for you: I would personally call 911, stop and tell the dude to stop beating him and the police are on their way. I wouldn't engage in the physical altercation unless I had no other choice because I have a wife and kids that expect me to come home. I also have no clue what the context of the altercation is, perhaps the guy on top doing the beating is the good guy and was defending himself from the crazy cyclist. My job isn't to protect people from being beaten to death in a situation I know nothing about. I carry a firearm to protect myself and my family from getting into a situation where I am beaten to death. I don't carry one to protect others, they can carry one for themselves if they so choose to. This is the attitude that leads to things like the Holocaust. You are selfish. As a human being you have a responsiblity to care for other human beings around you. If I see some woman getting raped I don't say, welllll I have a family to get back to and she could have carried a gun to protect herself, I better sit this one out. No, I would help her. There are people in this world that cannot protect themselves, and it is the duty of strong people around them to protect them. Otherwise we are just animals. I've been called worse. So, are you joining the military when you get off work today? I wouldn't want you to be accused of being selfish as well. Also, I'd like to see the list of other countries you plan to invade when you get done with Syria. You're going to be a busy fella because there are a lot of people being killed all over the world. The difference is the use of chemical weapons. Whether you like it or not, that is a line that the neighborhood kids drew in the sand, and when someone steps over it there should be consequences. So, what if we unilaterally lob a few bombs/missiles in and kill a few thousand people for ourselves? What does that accomplish? Obama himself said he didn't want a regime change, so we wouldn't be going after Assad. I guess we can beat our chest and say "see, we told you not to cross the line". The only way to truly hold them "accountable" would be to either kill or bring to justice the people responsible for using the chemical weapons and the only way to do that would be to invade Syria and wipe out Assad. Now we're in another Iraq/Afghanistan with thousands of American lives potentially being lost over the next 5-10 years because we can't just let the rebelsAl Quedatake over the Syrian government. Thats a straw man argument To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and to refute it, without ever having actually refuted the original position - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man You mean like comparing me selfishly ignoring somebody who first crashed on a bicycle, and then somehow found themselves being beat to death on the side of the road kind of straw man? lol Edited by tuwood 2013-09-03 4:54 PM |
| 2013-09-03 6:03 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: Syria Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by Left Brain Kinda hard to apply logic to that region......I'm sticking with "I don't care". You don't have to, I just happen to because I have family in that region. I actually don't think we should do anything, but no one was arguing the point that we have a moral responsibility to I was trying to fill in So instead of actually applying your own logic, you just wanted to argue a point.... while innocent people are actually dying. YOU have a moral responsibility to do something. YOU should stop being so selfish. YOU should sign up to put YOUR boots on the ground. YOU should go protect YOUR family. I love it how WE have a responsibility to make OTHERS go kill people. That's just pure awesome. |
| 2013-09-04 9:06 AM in reply to: powerman |
Member 465 | Subject: RE: Syria "I didn't set a red line, the world set a red line" President Barrack Obama. This morning, in Sweden "We have been very clear to the Assad regime, but also to other players on the ground, that a red line for us is we start seeing a whole bunch of chemical weapons moving around or being utilized. That would change my calculus. That would change my equation." August 12, 2012 |
| 2013-09-04 10:20 AM in reply to: Jackemy1 |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Syria oh man this one is just gold.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/obama-assures-americans-this-will-not-be-another-1,33719/ |
| 2013-09-04 10:53 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Syria Originally posted by dmiller5 oh man this one is just gold.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/obama-assures-americans-this-will-not-be-another-1,33719/ I don't even know what to say about that.......who wrote his speech? I don't give a rats arse what happened 550 years ago....who does? |
| 2013-09-04 11:03 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
| Deep in the Heart of Texas | Subject: RE: Syria Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by dmiller5 oh man this one is just gold.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/obama-assures-americans-this-will-not-be-another-1,33719/ I don't even know what to say about that.......who wrote his speech? I don't give a rats arse what happened 550 years ago....who does? The Onion is satirical. |
| 2013-09-04 11:11 AM in reply to: Hook'em |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Syria Originally posted by Hook'em Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by dmiller5 oh man this one is just gold.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/obama-assures-americans-this-will-not-be-another-1,33719/ I don't even know what to say about that.......who wrote his speech? I don't give a rats arse what happened 550 years ago....who does? The Onion is satirical. So of they quote the President it's not necessarily what he said? I'm asking....I have no idea...I don't read the tin foil hat chronicles. |
| 2013-09-04 11:27 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
| Deep in the Heart of Texas | Subject: RE: Syria Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Hook'em Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by dmiller5 oh man this one is just gold.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/obama-assures-americans-this-will-not-be-another-1,33719/ I don't even know what to say about that.......who wrote his speech? I don't give a rats arse what happened 550 years ago....who does? The Onion is satirical. So of they quote the President it's not necessarily what he said? I'm asking....I have no idea...I don't read the tin foil hat chronicles. No, they just make stuff up. You should read some of the other articles, they aren't all political. |
| 2013-09-04 11:53 AM in reply to: mrbbrad |
Champion 6993 Chicago, Illinois | Subject: RE: Syria problem with papers like the onion is you would be surprised how many times they are shared as fact on places like Facebook. People may know the onion but might not know the other "news sources" |
| 2013-09-04 12:31 PM in reply to: Hook'em |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Syria Originally posted by Hook'em Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Hook'em Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by dmiller5 oh man this one is just gold.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/obama-assures-americans-this-will-not-be-another-1,33719/ I don't even know what to say about that.......who wrote his speech? I don't give a rats arse what happened 550 years ago....who does? The Onion is satirical. So of they quote the President it's not necessarily what he said? I'm asking....I have no idea...I don't read the tin foil hat chronicles. No, they just make stuff up. You should read some of the other articles, they aren't all political. Is it ever funny? |
| 2013-09-04 12:44 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Syria Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Hook'em Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Hook'em Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by dmiller5 oh man this one is just gold.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/obama-assures-americans-this-will-not-be-another-1,33719/ I don't even know what to say about that.......who wrote his speech? I don't give a rats arse what happened 550 years ago....who does? The Onion is satirical. So of they quote the President it's not necessarily what he said? I'm asking....I have no idea...I don't read the tin foil hat chronicles. No, they just make stuff up. You should read some of the other articles, they aren't all political. Is it ever funny? Often, it's very funny and sometimes downright prophetic. This one was published in 2008 and pretty much dead nuts on (ok, not the very end of it) Edited by tuwood 2013-09-04 12:44 PM |
| 2013-09-04 12:53 PM in reply to: tuwood |
Expert 1416 San Luis Obispo, CA | Subject: RE: Syria Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Hook'em Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Hook'em Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by dmiller5 oh man this one is just gold.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/obama-assures-americans-this-will-not-be-another-1,33719/ I don't even know what to say about that.......who wrote his speech? I don't give a rats arse what happened 550 years ago....who does? The Onion is satirical. So of they quote the President it's not necessarily what he said? I'm asking....I have no idea...I don't read the tin foil hat chronicles. No, they just make stuff up. You should read some of the other articles, they aren't all political. Is it ever funny? Often, it's very funny and sometimes downright prophetic. This one was published in 2008 and pretty much dead nuts on (ok, not the very end of it) I'll reiterate, is it ever funny? I've never understood this as "humor". |
| 2013-09-04 1:09 PM in reply to: blbriley |
Champion 15211 Southern Chicago Suburbs, IL | Subject: RE: Syria Originally posted by blbriley Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Hook'em Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Hook'em Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by dmiller5 oh man this one is just gold.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/obama-assures-americans-this-will-not-be-another-1,33719/ I don't even know what to say about that.......who wrote his speech? I don't give a rats arse what happened 550 years ago....who does? The Onion is satirical. So of they quote the President it's not necessarily what he said? I'm asking....I have no idea...I don't read the tin foil hat chronicles. No, they just make stuff up. You should read some of the other articles, they aren't all political. Is it ever funny? Often, it's very funny and sometimes downright prophetic. This one was published in 2008 and pretty much dead nuts on (ok, not the very end of it) I'll reiterate, is it ever funny? I've never understood this as "humor". You don't find it funny but clearly many do as the Onion has been around a VERY long time doing this very type of thing. Hell, I can't stand Woody Allen but it is humor whether you think it is funny or not. It just isn't your kind of humor. |
| 2013-09-04 1:44 PM in reply to: crowny2 |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Syria Originally posted by crowny2 Originally posted by blbriley Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Hook'em Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Hook'em Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by dmiller5 oh man this one is just gold.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/obama-assures-americans-this-will-not-be-another-1,33719/ I don't even know what to say about that.......who wrote his speech? I don't give a rats arse what happened 550 years ago....who does? The Onion is satirical. So of they quote the President it's not necessarily what he said? I'm asking....I have no idea...I don't read the tin foil hat chronicles. No, they just make stuff up. You should read some of the other articles, they aren't all political. Is it ever funny? Often, it's very funny and sometimes downright prophetic. This one was published in 2008 and pretty much dead nuts on (ok, not the very end of it) I'll reiterate, is it ever funny? I've never understood this as "humor". You don't find it funny but clearly many do as the Onion has been around a VERY long time doing this very type of thing. Hell, I can't stand Woody Allen but it is humor whether you think it is funny or not. It just isn't your kind of humor. One of my personal favorites from 2003 |
| 2013-09-04 3:56 PM in reply to: tuwood |
Master 1730 Straight outta Compton | Subject: RE: Syria Speaking of great satire, this came out on Breitbart yesterday. I think the left and right can enjoy it equally~ http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/09/03/Inside-the-mind-putin |
| 2013-09-05 5:18 AM in reply to: mcgilmartin |
Expert 1186 North Cackalacky | Subject: RE: Syria I had a really interesting (to me, at least) question of the day in mind when I went to bed last night. This morning, I totally can't remember what it is. |
| 2013-09-05 5:52 AM in reply to: ScudRunner |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: Syria Originally posted by ScudRunner I had a really interesting (to me, at least) question of the day in mind when I went to bed last night. This morning, I totally can't remember what it is. Thanks for the chuckle. |
| 2013-09-05 11:24 AM in reply to: powerman |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Syria Russia says it's compiled 100-page report blaming Syrian rebels for a chemical weapons attack I read a comment on an article a day or two ago saying something to the effect of. "Assad was winning, rebels were getting desperate for outside help. So Assad uses chemical weapons that would result in the world rallying around rebels to aid in defeating him?" Obviously I have no clue, other than what I read in the media but it would seem as though chemical weapons use by Assad would heavily favor the rebels in their ultimate cause. |
| 2013-09-05 12:00 PM in reply to: tuwood |
Champion 15211 Southern Chicago Suburbs, IL | Subject: RE: Syria I will say that this has started to create some strange bedfellows. Libertarians and Liberals do NOT want this to do down.
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| 2013-09-05 1:56 PM in reply to: crowny2 |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Syria Originally posted by crowny2 I will say that this has started to create some strange bedfellows. Libertarians and Liberals do NOT want this to do down. I agree, and I'll be honest I kind of like it. There have been a few topics lately that have garnered a similar base of support. |
| 2013-09-05 2:27 PM in reply to: tuwood |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Syria Putin will make Obama look like a child. |
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