Obama endorses same-sex marriage (Page 5)

Have Ya been in COJ before?!?!?!?!?

Satan White Pants = Captain Obvious

Big appa asked: "why they consider one sin worse than the others?"

Stop trying to read things into my responses. I pointed out that one particular specific crime results in simple monetary loss, while the other specific crime resulted in the damage of an innocent. 

Because I wanted to draw a clear distinction using exampkle that i thought (Silly me) no one would be offened by or disagree with.

 Big Appa asked a question about what he (and I, and others) see as a discrepancy in the “sanctity of marriage” argument that so many religious people cite as a reason to oppose same-sex-marriage (SSM). In other words, how does Newt Gingrich get to be a serial adulterer and still be considered a viable candidate by the same religious right who opposes same-sex-marriage on the grounds that it violates the sanctity of marriage? I think it’s a fair question. You responded to his question which compared adultery to same-sex marriage with an analogy comparing stealing a loaf of bread and raping a child. Can you blame me for not really understanding what you’re trying to say?

Aboslutley yes

 I think anyone with an ounce of sense can distinguish between those two extreme examples. Appa’s question, and mine is, “how do you, as a religious person, make a distinction between SSM and adultery?”

I don't both involve sex outside of marraige and as such are both equally wrong.

 Both would seem to degrade the sanctity of marriage, as the church defines it, but while the religious right takes a hard line against one, they seem to take a much less stringent stance against the other. It sounds like you're saying that you think adultery does less damage to "an innocent" than allowing two consenting adults of the same gender to enter into a civil contract would . Curious as to why you feel that way.

Wait....didn't he say he was against gay marriage about 4 years ago? All of sudden he is for it? I'm sure this is a political move.  He probably was for gay marriage 4 years ago but politically it wasn't in his best interest to come out and say it.  I have a problem with this.  I want a president that doesn't flop on issues....he seems to be really good at this.  Our political system is so corrupt. 

Ps. I am pro gay marriage.

This argument is an easy and thoughtless way to attack a position without going into the merits of the position itself; "oh, he flip-flopped, so that invalidates it."

 I think anyone with an ounce of sense can distinguish between those two extreme examples. Appa’s question, and mine is, “how do you, as a religious person, make a distinction between SSM and adultery?”

I don't both involve sex outside of marraige and as such are both equally wrong.

Whether it is aimed at Democrats or Republicans, I'm never quite sure what to make when people pull out the "flip-flop" card. As if people are not allowed to change their minds, and the line of thinking they had some time ago must remain constant, unchanged, and inflexible. It is certainly possible that politicians change positions on issues out of political expediency, but the mere fact that a politician changes her or his position doesn't necessarily mean politics was the reason for it.

That's what people do, folks. They change their minds. I'm quite certain that every poster to this thread who has called Obama out for "flip-flopping" changed their mind on many things over the course of their lives.

This argument is an easy and thoughtless way to attack a position without going into the merits of the position itself; "oh, he flip-flopped, so that invalidates it."

Whether it is aimed at Democrats or Republicans, I'm never quite sure what to make when people pull out the "flip-flop" card. As if people are not allowed to change their minds, and the line of thinking they had some time ago must remain constant, unchanged, and inflexible. It is certainly possible that politicians change positions on issues out of political expediency, but the mere fact that a politician changes her or his position doesn't necessarily mean politics was the reason for it.

That's what people do, folks. They change their minds. I'm quite certain that every poster to this thread who has called Obama out for "flip-flopping" changed their mind on many things over the course of their lives.

This argument is an easy and thoughtless way to attack a position without going into the merits of the position itself; "oh, he flip-flopped, so that invalidates it."

And for the record as people "evolve in their opinions they become more conservative, not less. Unless it is for expediency.

Hang on a sec. Same Sex Marriage is not sex outside of marriage. Same sex partners want to be married so they can have sex within a marriage. Why deny them that opportunity?

Can I just ask a question here?  How exactly does allowing same sex marriage impact your life negatively? Has it changed your religious beliefs or impacted your relationships?  Has it made you think any less of the institution of marriage?  

What non biblical reason can you give me for denying a couple the right to be legal and financially responsible to each other for the rest of their lives.  If you can't think of a non Biblical reason, are you willing to allow that to be the basis of a legal right or lack thereof?  If you are, then who determines how the bible is interpreted?  Your cardinal, my neighbors pastor, the guy passing out the rapture is coming pamphlets at the stoplight?  

If the bible is going to be used as a basis of same sex marriage being a sin, then we should deny all legal rights to other relationship sins...adultery, living in"sin" before marriage, divorce.  Also, why are we so concerned with this one antiquated idea from the bible and not others.  

Why are these not on the ballot for me to vote on:

People who work on the Sabbath should be put to death Exdodus 35:2

Slavery is Ok:  Leviticus 25:44

Beating your children is encouraged:  Proberbs 23:13

I change my mind all the time. I changed my mind on this very issue but mine wasn't overnight.

 I don't have a problem with him changing his mind but your going to tell me he change his mind in 4 years?  Its highly possible.  However, its his track record that makes me a skeptic.  Its not just him but most politicians. I get they are trying to win votes but my point was that this was a political move influced by popularity.  You are not going to convince me this wasn't a political move.

Whether it is aimed at Democrats or Republicans, I'm never quite sure what to make when people pull out the "flip-flop" card. As if people are not allowed to change their minds, and the line of thinking they had some time ago must remain constant, unchanged, and inflexible. It is certainly possible that politicians change positions on issues out of political expediency, but the mere fact that a politician changes her or his position doesn't necessarily mean politics was the reason for it.

That's what people do, folks. They change their minds. I'm quite certain that every poster to this thread who has called Obama out for "flip-flopping" changed their mind on many things over the course of their lives.

This argument is an easy and thoughtless way to attack a position without going into the merits of the position itself; "oh, he flip-flopped, so that invalidates it."

Whether it is aimed at Democrats or Republicans, I'm never quite sure what to make when people pull out the "flip-flop" card. As if people are not allowed to change their minds, and the line of thinking they had some time ago must remain constant, unchanged, and inflexible. It is certainly possible that politicians change positions on issues out of political expediency, but the mere fact that a politician changes her or his position doesn't necessarily mean politics was the reason for it.

That's what people do, folks. They change their minds. I'm quite certain that every poster to this thread who has called Obama out for "flip-flopping" changed their mind on many things over the course of their lives.

This argument is an easy and thoughtless way to attack a position without going into the merits of the position itself; "oh, he flip-flopped, so that invalidates it."

Marriage as a sacrament only holds under the Roman Catholic definition of marriage. The RC church does not recognize marriages outside of the church to be sacraments since those officiating at them have no power to confect a sacrament.