16 months, still suck! (Page 5)

This is completely wrong.  If your coach has actually told you this in those words, I have serious doubts about her coaching skills.

A good coach recognizes that there's the text book scientific way of doing things (relying on tests), and there's the art of applying that knowledge in a practical way to get the best results (verifying test results through races or even using race data to set zones).

Contrary to the way it tends to be presented in online forums, HR zones do not need to be exact to get good results.  If your zones and LT are off a couple bpm one way or the other, HR training can still be very effective.  Because yours are obviously so far off, and you've acknowledged that you have a lot of trouble pushing hard enough during tests, but can push harder during races, IMO, there's no point in testing frequently, and instead, I'd schedule more races for training purposes and use that data to estimate zones and appropriate training intensities.

Well, given that the paces I was going for was 12:00/mile over 12 miles and 14 MPH on the bike over 75 miles, I don't think I'll be doing my body irreparable damage lol

12.17 miles at 11:25.  You know, I take that back, the run is the one thing that I'm happy with the progress on (and it would be tons better if I just ran).  Not blazing, but faster than what I could do 2 miles on Jan of last year.  Hilly terrain also.

Have a bike test Tuesday.  We will see how it goes.  Sunday I'm going to do what I have to to get 14 MPH over the 75 miles at the Sunday spot I do all the time.

This is also why there's often a recommendation to take your time before jumping to IM distance.  A year sounds like a long time to train but it really isn't, and that goes double for someone with an inactive background.

I'm not trying to rain on the parade and I know GatorDeb is already signed up.  But this is the root cause of urgency, and it creates friction against some of the recommended training advice.

gsmacleod - 2013-04-26 12:27 PM

GatorDeb - 2013-04-26 2:23 PM 18 months of training, a year since I paid And with a bunch of sprints, two olys, two halves, and 18 months of training, theoretically I was actually very conservative.

18 months from couch to IM is not very conservative, not in theory and not in practice. Shane

Agreed, and that race frequency is not too far off what I've done in that same time. The past 18 months, not my first 18 months of tri, and I'm coming from an athletic background.

GatorDeb - 2013-04-26 12:23 PM 18 months of training, a year since I paid And with a bunch of sprints, two olys, two halves, and 18 months of training, theoretically I was actually very conservative.

No, that is not being conservative at all.  That's jumping right into the whole IM thing like a giant cannonball into a pool. 

FWIW, I'm in my fourth year of triathlon, have done ~20 various races in that time, and I haven't signed up for an IM yet. 

wannabefaster - 2013-04-24 8:59 AM

GatorDeb - 2013-04-24 3:36 AM

  Up to 2009 I never worked out, never played sports, etc.</p   During the Half the one thought that kept going through my mind was, this is really fun, this is what I want to do, and I am really enjoying this. 

I left those two things up there. It is my opinion that people who have, literally, never competed in sports (often) never truly learned how to suffer while doing something athletic. And, as fun as this sport is, you need to be willing to suffer a little (or a lot) in order to go faster. I guarantee you that I NEVER think during a HIM, "Boy, I really enjoy this...." Instead, I am thinking, "this sucks. I wonder if I can hang on at this pace or am I going to blow up." If you are enjoying yourself and having fun and are happy with where you are, then change nothing. If you want to be faster, you will need to embrace the suck at some point in time. I love this sport too. I love to train. I love to race. But, when I am actually racing it is sometimes less fun than it might be, but it feels oh so good when I finish ETA the word often up there.

This is almost exactly what I was going to write.

GatorDeb - 2013-04-26 7:23 PM 18 months of training, a year since I paid And with a bunch of sprints, two olys, two halves, and 18 months of training, theoretically I was actually very conservative.

Agree with Shane. Some questions:

When did you decide for your upcoming IM? From the very beginning? Has your HIM races been test races to prepare for that goal? Have you reassessed your goals, reviewed your progress and adjusted your goals?

Personally I decide on races on a very short term. I look at the current year for races that might be interesting, in line with my goals and fit in with other events, but I've actually only registered for 2. I have a bunch I'd like to do, but I won't commit just yet. I don't collect failures - failures as in DNF or DNS. I set my goals, a goal to aim for, a stretch goal for the good day and an "accepted" target, the later being one that I'm OK with but if I don't meet it then I have to go back to scratch and possibly shorter races. 

I want to be comfortable doing a shorter distance before moving up to a longer distance. And also, I insist on racing the run distance before signing up for a triathlon with that run distance.

I have less races logged than you, but after every race I go back and study where I can improve, what I should do to improve and revise my goals and training. Races are mile stones, where you reality check and realign your goals with the reality of your progress. I use my relative position BOP/MOP/FOP in each discipline. I figure, I'm pretty average, so if I perform below average in something, that's where I can gain the most. 

I started one year ago, actually 12 months exactly, come from an athletic background in swimming, I have yet to have my HIM debut. I very quickly scrapped the idea of a HIM last year, too much too soon. I postponed again my HIM debut because I didn't feel I could commit, I didn't have my run volume up and I wanted to run a HM race before registering. I finally signed up for my first HIM in june. That will be after 13 months of training and preparation.

Depending on how that works out I'm looking to do one or two more this year, or go back to do some more OLYs. My HIM goal is 5:30, it might actually be a stretch goal as race day comes nearer, but my stretch goal is 5:15 and I'd like to break 5:00 some day. My accepted time is 6:00. Not breaking the 6hs means that I should stay at HIM and shorter distances and improve before aiming for an IM.

By the end of this year I'll consider if I want to sign up for an IM in 2014 (or at all) or take another year at the HIM distance and shorter. Currently I prefer to think about doing more HIMs, but sounds nice to do an IM before I turn 40 november next year.  

That's conservative. 

Well then there you go.  Tremendous improvement in endurance.  No real speed gains, but to a degree that is to be expected...

If you would have focused on increased speedwork and kept volume steady, more than likely you would be faster today.  That's OK it's what you wanted to do.

Now if you do actually want to get faster, I highly recommend you take some of the good advice provided previously.

Deb.....then what was the point of this thread? 

It's on the first post of this thread.

I agree with that Karen, which is why I qualified my advice regarding the coach.  However, if the information given is correct (that the coach is knowingly assigning training sessions based on what are obviously incorrect heart rate zones), then the coach is either not competent or doesn't care about her client's results.

Is there another possibility besides those two or that something significant is being lost in Deb's explanation of the situation?

OK, except that from what I've seen, you have discounted every bit of advice that has been given to you....so why bother?

LB, I thought you've been around here long enough to remember some of Deb's early threads from a few years ago?  They always go like this.  It's just been a while since we've had one.

Don't get too heavily invested in it, though, because you can end up sitting in a corner rocking back and forth arguing with yourself.

ETA:  Says one of the guys who keeps coming back to try to help her like a moth to a flame. 

Yes, like a candle to a flame or having to stop to look at an accident, we do it even though we know better.

Ahh, remembering the journey:

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=237594&start=1

Deb,

You say you didn't do anything up until last January. You were here on BT before that if I recall correctly hoping to do an IM soon but you got injured and had to take a bunch of time off from training?

How did you get injured and was it an overuse injury from doing to much to soon?

Didn't you have another coach prior to this one? Why did you make the switch?

Why continue doing what hasn't worked so far? If zones are wrong why keep using them? Testing from real world experience ie your race is a solid method to determining your zones. Why do testing when you have data from last weekend from your race?

Like others have said, why do you post your concerns here and then dismiss most all the suggestions from coaches and knowledgeable folks?

Training based on bad testing, or goal for race pace is not wise. You have 5-6 weeks of training make the most of them and it will make a difference come race day.

I wish you all the best.