Fred D's triathlon training group CLOSED (Page 59)

If you were to get VO2 max tested...what exactly do you do with the number?  Are you unhappy with your current training zones?  Do you think that knowing your VO2 max will clarify your training significantly? 

I know very little about VO2 testing and it's applications in training zones, but I think of it like FTP testing.  I don't need to FTP test to know what levels I should be training at.  And at the same time...if I estimate my FTP to be 250, when it's really 254...that really doesn't change my training that much.

Your fitness has changed - so you've gotta field test again!

I know a top AGer that could probably turn pro who got pod tested.  This girl has barely any spare fat on her at all.  She registered at like 30% or something.  WTF?  I guess I am saying after talking to my cousin who manages the British swim team, and reading this girls post about her testing I decided that body fat is full of phooey.  What the Brits do is just take 7 pinch test spots and add them up.  They just track that, with the goal of it staying the same or going down.

But, if you have easy access and money to spare I think I would do the hydro.

Not only that, your second test would probably be more accurate as well.  I know the first one I did I didn't pace it quite right.  I put too much energy on the front and and faded bad on the back end.  I was much better on my second test, and even better on the 3rd (spaced about 6 months apart).

5.5 mile run last night, went out at what i wanted for HIM pace, but ended up a little quicker 8/mm pace.

Great OWS yesterday, i really love swimming in a wettie in the salt water!!  Was swimming with some pretty fast doods and holding my own, they hardly had to wait for me at the meeting points. When we OWS we swim to flags and buoys, some of which are 4-500 meters off shore, we regroup and make sure we count the people every 12-15 mins or so. Last year i was always 2-3 mins behind, this year was like 30 sec to less than a minute.

trainer ride easy tonight, OWS tomorrow and a easy 5k to keep the legs going.

Saturday's TT is a last minute call, weather dependent, if it is raining i stay home. I know half the field, there are 2 really really fast doods that are really Cat3's racing, it will be interesting to see how i stack up, it will not be a walkover by any stretch.

In all seriousness that is actually really cool. It always seems like the prevailing wisdom on BT is to not spend much time on swimming and rather focus on the other disciplines of cycling and running. My experience has been that it completely changes the game if you can come out of the water feeling good with the fasties rather than starting out in a 2~3 minute hole and whipped. At this point in my race career I have found it to be of tremendous value to work a lot on the swim. I wish I had known that years ago.

the new swimming related threads in tri-talk have this site hitting an all time low.

I am glad i have this mentor group, other wise i might start visiting slowtitch more often.

TankBoy - 2012-05-31 11:43 AM Rudy - that is like 2 swim brags in one week! You may want to be careful with that; next thing you mnow you might just go and change your mind about retiring from triathlon...

In all seriousness that is actually really cool. It always seems like the prevailing wisdom on BT is to not spend much time on swimming and rather focus on the other disciplines of cycling and running. My experience has been that it completely changes the game if you can come out of the water feeling good with the fasties rather than starting out in a 2~3 minute hole and whipped. At this point in my race career I have found it to be of tremendous value to work a lot on the swim. I wish I had known that years ago.

my lack of swimming last year cost me a couple AG podiums, it kinda really cheesed me off, i made a note to work on that this year, late last year, when i reflected on my season.

i'm getting my bragging in now, so when i return monday after Rev3 Quassy kicks my butt all over northern CT, i can read back and feel even worse about myself, it tends to create motivation, lol!!!

TankBoy - 2012-05-31 11:43 AM Rudy - that is like 2 swim brags in one week! You may want to be careful with that; next thing you mnow you might just go and change your mind about retiring from triathlon...

In all seriousness that is actually really cool. It always seems like the prevailing wisdom on BT is to not spend much time on swimming and rather focus on the other disciplines of cycling and running. My experience has been that it completely changes the game if you can come out of the water feeling good with the fasties rather than starting out in a 2~3 minute hole and whipped. At this point in my race career I have found it to be of tremendous value to work a lot on the swim. I wish I had known that years ago.

Hence my bigest swim month ever in May.  I had figured this out last year as well, but didn't put in the dedication during the winter and am now trying to correct things.  I still don't have the speed, so I'm expecting to drop time to others on the swim, but I'm hoping that the improved swim fitness makes up for that a bit during the bike & run.

First race this weekend, so we'll see how it all pans out.

Brian - what's your opinion on the Zoot Energy 3.0 shoe?  I can get a ridiculous deal on these so am curious as to your thoughts?

Thanks

I have had some mixed feelings with swim training.  Last year I was swimming 3-4x week at 2500-3000 yards each session in hopes of improving my swim tremendously.  My threshold pace went from 1:30 to 1:25 per 100 and I was feeling great but it never seemed to translate to racing as I was swimming the same times as the year before.  I guess I question how much it really helped or why I was not seeing the gain translate over to OWS.

Now, since I have a young daughter, I cannot leave in the morning for early swim sessions since the pool does not open early enough.  So, I am stuck with lunch sessions of 40 minutes usually.  Plus, It is really a PITA to drive 40 minutes round trip for a 40 minute workout.  That is what I hate the most.  I have instead focused a bunch of attention to my bike/run so we will see how it all plays out.

I would agree that for IM racing coming out of the water fresh, even if it is somewhat slow, would be a great benefit.  For HIM and below, I am not so sure.  I think you definitely need to be proficient but making it a big priority I guess is the question Icome back to.

Ryan - we'll see how things go for my race this weekend, but I do worry that all this extra effort won't pay off and I should have spent more time running.  We'll see.

One other swim question - do you breathe every 1 or 3 strokes in a race?  I very much have gotten used to breathing bilaterally, and now do it exclusively, but read something about getting more oxygen by breathing every stroke - makes sense.  So now I'm wondering if I should do that this weekend.  Decided to breathe that way for the sets of 100's I did today.  How about everyone else?

Good luck to all that are racing this weekend.  Enjoy the day and have a blast!

Neil,
 
I like you!  You always come up with some good questions.
 
For me there is no rhyme or reason to the amount of breaths I take.  It does depend on effort.  Some times I will go up to 5 strokes to clear the lungs.
 
I do bilaterally breathing and recommend if you don’t to learn.  It can help balance your stroke effort.  I believe it can help being more symmetrical in reach and rotation.  That can also make you more hydro dynamic and faster. jmo.
 

btw I would not change anything in your race routine till after this weekend.

As a side note, it is interesting that you say you breathe bilaterally exclusively. Does that mean you breathe every three strokes? IMHO if you are not breathing every other stroke (ie on the same side) you are probably not swimming your short (50y~200y) intervals hard enough, or maybe you are taking too long of a recovery between intervals?

Rusty - for the reasons you noted above I switched to bilateral breathing early on because I couldn't breathe on one side.  I've actually forgotten which was my strong side (I think it was breathing to my left).  But to your point, for the last few years, with the exception of just a couple laps here and there I've only been bilateral breathing - including intervals.  When I used James workout yesterday (been using it a a lot lately James!) I definitley "felt" that I was able to go deeper into the set before the cardio caught up with me and I was breathing a lot more heavily.

I know in this group there are some monster numbers put up on a monthly basis, but this was my biggest month ever.  Swim time almost matched run time!

Neil - that is fantastic! About six months ago I found myself trying to remember the same thing - I took it as a very good sign of progress. In my first couple of races it came back pretty quickly what my "natural" side was because I had neglected to practice my sighting when breathing bilaterally. Sighting when I breath to my left (natural side) is very easy - sighting after I take a breath to the right not so much - it felt really awkward and uncoordinated. So I have added more sighting drills into my routine and it has already helped a good bit.

Good luck this weekend to everyone racing - I have a "c" sprint race on Saturday - my last little "shake down cruise" before IMLP.

Rusty:  I am trying to contribute here but you keep writing my exact thoughts LOL.  Pretty much agreed with everything you have said this morning ha.

Neil:  Nice numbers and way to get the pool workouts done.  Really hope it pays off for you.

Definitely good luck to everybody racing this weekend - the next two weeks I feel like the whole group will be racing.  Awesome.

I am pretty giddy about my race next weekend.  This will be my first race with an actual bike race setup.  I am sick of giving up free speed to all my competitors.  The LBS is letting me use the Bontrager Aeoleus 5.0 wheel set, although not super deep, is still an improvement and I have a Rudy Wingspan helmet on the way.  Excited about that too .

Every 3 is generally my groove for races. I breathe bilaterally, except for sprints. And by sprints, I don't mean sprint tris, I mean 50 or 100yd hard intervals or stand-alone races. And that doesn't mean I'm breathing every stroke, I just favor my right side over my left.

Honestly, I don't think too much about it. I breathe when I feel like I need to. I only really think about it when attempting to settle into a pattern to get my HR down or calm myself.

...or if I'm doing hypoxic sets. Not intending to start a debate on these. Sometimes I'll do 3/5/7 sets or something. More for the mental advantage, than the physical. If I take in water instead of air during a race, I'm confident that I won't drown, because I know I can do without as much air and recover just fine.