Gray Guys/Girls Maturing Triathlete - Always OPEN (Page 6)

You are an athlete George!   I watched the video the other night - very cool!  I think I'd feel a little self-conscious if someone was following me around with a camera but you looked great!

Congrats on the run - got outside today for a short one myself - first one since Christmas Eve.  Felt good to be out.

Janet

Hey guys!  Hope everyone had a great weekend.  We actually had a bit of spring weather here so I got outside today for my run.  Only 2 miles (with another mile walking) - trying to work my running and swimming back in slowly (haven't been to the pool yet though ).  

I have a question for you all.  I've been keeping my runs slow and short - generally 2-4 miles - due to some irritation in my knee.  Doc says it's the beginnings of arthritis along with some fluid build-up behind my knee when I push too hard.  Does anyone/has anyone tried any kind of joint supplement?  I've been wondering if it would help - do they really work, are they worth it?  My mom has had both of her knees replaced and I really don't want to go down that path if I can avoid it.  

Scott - I'm up for a weight loss challenge.  I've finally stopped gaining, but I'm not losing anything either.  I also like the idea of workout-based points - more motivation to get my butt moving!

Janet

Hey Ed,

Unless you are talking about something personal that you don't want public, posting to the forum can answer questions that others also have.  It won't "clog up" the forum - honest!

Plus, I always like hearing Steve's thoughts on running - he's been doing it a long time and he's gotten pretty good at it.

Janet,

My wife has osteoarthritis and is bone-on-bone in her left knee.  She gets a cortisone injection every 4-months and will likely have knee replacement surgery before the end of the year.  She takes a Glucosamine/Chondroitin tablet that she swears by.  There are a number of studies that imply Glucosamine/Chondroitin is ineffective but my wife is absolutely sold on them. 

Also, she uses "Blue Emu" if there is too much pain.  She says that's her miracle cream.   When she told the surgeon she was using it, he just rolled his eyes but I know when she uses it, the limp goes away.  Can't argue with the results. (I think doctors are just fundamentally opposed to anything a patient might use that doesn't cost a gazillion dollars. ).

Thanks Janet - It was strange being followed by the crew at first but they were really good at making me feel comfortable and blending in to the crowds.  During the last 10K of the run I had 5 people surrounding me which made me self conscious but they cheered me on the whole way.  It really was a lot of fun and as my coach says it will make a good souvenir of the race.

Yesterday my coach played the whole video while we were spinning on our bikes for 90 minutes.  Really helped the time pass quickly.

As for your knee - you can try RICE (rest/ ice/ compression/ elevation) especially for the fluid build up and for supplements try Glucosamine with Chondroitin Sulfate and maybe some MSM as well.

The sulfates are arguably better than NSAIDs with no undesirable side effects.  I heard this from a medical doctor but we also gave these to our Golden Retriever when he was getting arthritic and it really helped him and he had no idea what we were giving him.  As a long shot you could also check out a "Cho Pat" knee brace.  It is just a thin band that you wrap around your leg just below your patella (with velcro).  I can't say it will help but it might be helpful.  Worth a shot.

I'm going to the pool tomorrow but I am embarrassed that I am only planning to swim 1800m at most but I will also aim to swim 4 times (3 for sure) this week.  I find it always hard to drag myself to the pool and I hate that first moment when I have to jump in (high pitched screaming) but once I'm in and I get going on my warm-up I start to feel myself moving through the water and I start to enjoy it.  I never finish a swim wishing I hadn't come to the pool - not even on a bad swim day.

I just submitted this post and then read Scott's post which was great.  I haven't tried blue emu but I have heard good things of it as well.

Scott - I'm in for whatever wt loss/ scoring you come up with.

Mitzi,

You asked the question about zones and that got me thinking so I went back and found your previous posts re a watch.  Your watch likely can track in open water - just put it under your swim cap.  The problem with watches and open water is that when the watch is on your arm, it loses the satellite when it goes underwater.  Some watches (as you observed - the more expensive ones) can retain lock on the satellite during the brief moments the hand is underwater.  Putting the watch in your cap, it never loses the satellite.

I reposted this because I'm going to answer your question regarding zones in just a moment and a HR monitor is needed to train with zones.  It appears to me from the link you posted that your watch is capable of providing HR data.  If you click the link and scroll down to where it shows the three watches side-by-side, you can see the one on the far right is displaying HR data and it says under the picture an optional HR monitor is needed.  I didn't research enough to learn if the watch can upload to a site like BT or Training Peaks but certainly it is HR capable with the purchase of a HR monitor.

Don't worry, the zones confuse a lot of people!

Let's start by clearing a couple of things up.  The HR that any treadmill shows is likely nowhere near accurate (just like the watts on a gym bike are likely nowhere near accurate).  Sorry.

I attached a picture at the bottom of this post that shows the relationship between [Zones - Effort - RPE - Power - HR - Feels Like].  This particular chart combines run and cycling zones together into one single chart (as you'll see below the zones are slightly different for running and cycling), but as you will see below, this chart is close enough to be helpful.

If you want to train using zones, you really need a HR monitor.  Using HR is far less subjective than RPE (rate of perceived exertion).  That isn't to say that RPE doesn't have it's place.  Indeed, in my opinion, RPE is becoming a lost art as athletes increasingly rely on their electronic toys.  Do you absolutely have to get a HR monitor to train for a triathlon?  No, you don't.  However you can train far more efficiently and effectively with a HR monitor then you can without.

Now, let's talk about HR zones - what they are and how we determine the zones.  I'm going to try and keep this brief (note the eye rolls of all that have known me for a season or two) and as non-technical as I can. 

Before we can talk about zones we need a basic understanding of human energy pathways.  For our discussion we are going to refer to the aerobic energy pathway and the anaerobic energy pathways (the anaerobic energy pathway is actually more than one but I promised to keep it non-technical).  The anaerobic energy system creates energy very quickly and is used for short periods of high intensity exercise lasting from 1-second to approximately three-minutes - jumping up off a couch, lifting a barbell, throwing a rock, sprinting across the street, etc.  The anaerobic energy pathway creates energy using carbohydrate (glycogen stored in the muscles) in the absence of oxygen and has a metabolic by-product called 'Lactate' which breaks down in the bloodstream to form 'lactic acid' - that burn you feel when you exercise really hard.  The average trained athlete has approximately 60-90 minutes of glycogen stored in their body.  That's a problem if you want to do an Ironman lasting upwards of 10-12 hours or more.  Enter the aerobic energy pathway.  The aerobic energy pathway provides energy for lower intensity exercise lasting a virtually unlimited length of time by converting fat into energy.  This is a good place to point out that while we have a virtually unlimited supply of energy in the form of fat - fat burns in a carbohydrate fire.  What that means is if your body runs out of carbohydrate you will "hit the wall."  Your body will have no way of converting fat to energy if you burn through your entire carbohydrate supply (this is actually a discussion for another time but worth mention).

With that basic understanding of energy pathways, lets look at what happens as you go from a resting state to intense exercise.  Imagine you are sitting on a couch - your body is primarily using the aerobic energy pathway for energy production but because fat burns in a carbohydrate fire, there is also some energy production in the anaerobic energy pathway.  You decide to go outside for a run - as you begin to move, or exercise, your body requires more energy causing your heart to beat faster so your body can deliver more oxygen and nutrients to the working cells - at this point the aerobic energy pathway is still the primary source of energy.  As you begin to jog, the heart continues to beat faster, delivering increasing amounts of oxygen and nutrients to the muscles.  Your pace continues to get faster and at some point, the aerobic energy pathway will no longer be able to provide enough energy for the exercising muscles - at which point your anaerobic energy pathway begins to create more energy - this is the aerobic threshold - the level of effort at which anaerobic energy pathways become a significant part of energy production.  This is also the point at which lactate begins to accumulate in the body.  Your body is able to "clear" lactate at lower exercise intensity, however as you continue to run faster (exercise harder), the anaerobic energy pathway provides more and more energy - creating more and more lactate.  At some point, you will reach a point at which your body can no longer keep up with the lactate accumulation and you will have reached your "Maximal Lactate Steady State" (MLSS).  This is the 'lactate threshold' you have likely heard about.  Exercise beyond this level will cause additional lactate accumulation which will eventually force you to slow down.

Let's look at all of this a little bit more closely.  We have a virtually unlimited supply of fat that we can convert to energy and we have a very limited supply of carbohydrate which, if it is all consumed, will result in a complete loss of energy.  Wouldn't it be neat if there was a way to train our bodies to better use fat for energy so we can avoid the negative consequences of running out of carbohydrate?  It turns out there is - by exercising just above the aerobic threshold.  The aerobic threshold occurs in approximately high zone 1.  Thus, zone 2 training is training the aerobic energy pathway to better utilize fat for fuel; creating more energy more quickly; allowing us to do more work at the same heart rate - or run faster at the same HR.  Looking a little deeper, wouldn't it be nice if there were a way to become a physically stronger runner?  Again, it turns out if we exercise just below our MLSS (or threshold) we can strengthen our muscles and become faster.  Our lactate threshold (MLSS) occurs at the upper limit of zone 4.  Finally, that lactic acid thing is painful and can inhibit my exercise.  Wouldn't it be neat if we could find a way to train our body to better clear accumulated lactate?  Once again, understanding the energy pathways provides an answer.  By exercising above our threshold (MLSS) - zone 5 or above - we can train the body to better clear lactate accumulation - allowing us to exercise at a higher intensity without adverse lactate accumulation.

So now we have zones where different physiological things happen within the body.  How do I determine those zones so I can take advantage of them in my training?

One way you can determine your training zones is through metabolic testing in a lab.  That's expensive and involves needles - not something most of us are anxious to sign-up for.  However, you can easily do a field test that will closely approximate your Lactate Threshold (MLSS) from which you can calculate your training zones.  The obvious question is, "Is 'closely approximate' close enough?"  It's helpful to understand that all of these various physiological markers occur on a continuum.  There isn't a switch the body throws at a specific HR to make things happen.  It isn't like you are resting with a HR of 65 beats per minute, then begin to move and at EXACTLY 127 beats per minute you reach your aerobic threshold; or you are running and at exactly 154 beats per minute you reach your lactate threshold (LT).  In this example, as your HR approaches 127 beats per minute you are approaching your aerobic threshold; as your HR approaches 154 beats per minutes you are approaching your LT.  Understanding that everything occurs on a continuum allows us to see that "closely approximate" is indeed close enough for our purposes.

The field test itself is straight-forward and easy to do.

On both the bike and/or the run (if doing both, do the tests on different days). You will need a watch (preferably a GPS watch) and HR monitor.  You will be doing a 30-minute time trial to determine your threshold.  After a thorough warm-up, begin the test by pressing 'start' on your watch.  You will run as hard as you can for 30-minutes.  Ideally you will have an even pace - not fade over the length of the test or get faster as you near the end.  Ten minutes into the test, press the 'lap' button on your watch.  At thirty minutes press 'stop,' and cool down.  Again, the test should be done as if it were a 30-minute race - hard from the beginning to the end.

Your average HR over the final 20-minutes of the test closely approximates your Lactate Threshold Heart Rate (LTHR) - both run and bike.  Your average pace over the entire run test closely approximates your lactate threshold run pace.

Once you have determined your LTHR, you can use the following tables to calculate your training zones - 

Run Zones
Zone 1 Less than 85% of LTHR
Zone 2 85% to 89% of LTHR
Zone 3 90% to 94% of LTHR
Zone 4 95% to 99% of LTHR
Zone 5a 100% to 102% of LTHR
Zone 5b 103% to 106% of LTHR
Zone 5c More than 106% of LTHR

Bike Zones
Zone 1 Less than 81% of LTHR
Zone 2 81% to 89% of LTHR
Zone 3 90% to 93% of LTHR
Zone 4 94% to 99% of LTHR
Zone 5a 100% to 102% of LTHR
Zone 5b 103% to 106% of LTHR
Zone 5c More than 106% of LTHR

This is really basic and cut a couple corners to make it less technical.  Hope it helps to clear some of the confusion.

(RPE-PWR-HR.jpg)

I don't think that's anything to be embarrassed about (my goal right now is to make it to the pool and get in at least 1000m).  At least you're going!  Unlike some of us (me ).  Like you, I'm always glad I went and enjoy the workout, it's just the getting there that I'm having trouble with lately.  I do have plans for 2x this week though - Wednesday or Thursday and Sunday morning with the tri club.  Just need to get my butt out of bed and go!

Janet

Thanks all for the advice on my knee.  I think I may try something for a while and see if it helps.

Mitzi - I've also seen the advice about strengthening the muscles and I've looked up some exercises that are supposed to help - just need to add them to my routine.  Also starting some yoga - going to a class at the gym on Sundays and I've got some videos at home to do during the week.  I'm hoping that will also help with a shoulder that's starting to act up.  My body seems to like reminding me that I'm not 20 anymore .

Janet

Don't MAKE me call Jillian!  

Hey Everyone -

Let’s get the 2018 Weight-loss/Workout Challenge started!

How you earn points -

• +5 points for no weight gain
• +/- 1 point per pound lost/gained, or fraction thereof
• +1 point for every 60 workout minutes

A couple of examples for clarification:

You had a good week, lost 2.3 pounds, 421 minutes working out -

• +5 points for no weight gain
• +2.3 points for weight loss
• +7 points for workout minutes (421/60 = 7.0, rounded to nearest tenth)
• Total points for week = 14.3 points

You had an OK weak, no weight change, 129 minutes working out -

• +5 points for no weight gain
• +0 points for weight change
• +2.2 points for workout minutes (129/60 = 2.2)
• Total points for week = 7.3 points

You had a bad week, gained 1.6 pounds, 47 minutes working out -

• +0 points for no weight gain
• -1.6 points for weight gain
• +0.8 points for workout minutes (47/60 = 0.8, rounded to nearest tenth)
• Total points for week = -0.8 points

The challenge week will go Monday - Sunday with the weigh-in at the end of the week, so we will do our first official "weigh-in" this coming Sunday.  I suggest you weigh-in at the same time on the same scale every week.  Next Sunday afternoon/evening or Monday morning (2/3-4) we all post our weight change and our workout minutes and then every week until the end.  For the purposes of the challenge, we do not need your actual weight.  We are on the honor system.  You are welcome to post your weight if it will help you stay accountable to yourself or will help motivate you.  Once everyone posts their numbers, I will plug everything into my magic spreadsheet and will hopefully post the results sometime Tuesday.

We'll end the challenge on Sunday, April 1^st.  The "winner" will be the person with the most points and will receive a triathlon coffee mug (shown below).

Good luck everyone!

(triathlon mug.jpg)

Steve,

I am with the others that don't understand doping.  I like to track my times from race to race to see if I can beat my previous times, but it really doesn't matter to me if I am in 7th place or 8th place.  I have done 5K races that had 300+ people in them and I was the only person in my AG.  So I knew I was going to win my AG.  What I didn't know is if the tweaks I had done to the training plan made me better prepared for this race than the I was at the last race before the tweaks.  I didn't know if I was going to be able to get my pacing tight this time or how well I would be able to stick to my race plan. At the end of the race I get a time and a self evaluation.  When you are racing against yourself why would you want to cheat?

Bryan, 

I went to school at the University of Wyoming.  At 7200 feet above sea level it stays pretty cold all winter. If it was above freezing we were definitely going to be running outside. It if was above 50 degrees F we would be running in shorts.  I did yesterday morning's 7-1/2 mile run in a warm 28 degrees.  The coldest I have done outside was probably about 5 Deg F.  I do run indoors and on Treadmills when the weather is bad though.  :-)  When it is really cold I like to put a scarf over my face.  That keeps the air going into the lungs warm so I don't get a cough.  I tried running in my cross country spikes on ice a few times when I was in Wyoming.  The spikes didn't help much.  I don't run on ice anymore.  Its not worth it.  I have wiped out too many times going around corners. Running on packed snow is okay though.  Injuries are just waiting to happen when it is slick out so stay in when the weather is bad.

This year the focus will be on my Half Ironman Race in August.  Everything else will lead up to that. 

I was struggle a few months ago to know what to work on. I kind of wanted to do a run focus since I had just been relying on my running back ground to get me through for the past 3 years and spending all the extra time I could fit into the schedule on cycling and swimming.  I did a cycling focus last summer and fall and wasn't sure if I had harvested all the low hanging fruit and should switch focuses or if I should stick with the bike.  With the cold weather and swimming being my weakest area I though that I should possibly do a legitimate swim focus for once and spend my winter indoors in 80 deg F pools. I have turned the decision making over to Scott on this and am working with him through BSC Multisports.  The decision has been to start by getting my run volume up.  I was doing 15-25 miles a week of running in 2017.  It doesn't seem like much but my run splits rankings were always higher than my bike or swim splits ranks so I kept working on the swim and bike.  I am now up to about 35 run miles a week.  I am working to increase FTP and endurance on the bike right now.  Swimming will be added to the mix next week.  I was a strong swimmer at age 3, but it is one of those talents that I didn't develop much past about 8 years old so my goal in triathlons has always been to be able to stay in the freestyle stroke the whole swim, to not wonder off the swim course, and to save my energy for the bike and run.  Anygain in swimming that I achieve past that this year will just be a bonus.   

Rebecca - I've always admired soccer players because they seem to be in such good shape.  I can imagine you'd have a strong sense of loss after 8 years with the team.  But, on the bright side your soccer years should pay big dividends in core strength and ultimately in your Tri strength.

Don't worry about being bad in all 3 segments.  No matter how bad/ slow you feel there is always someone slower.  You will always be an inspiration to someone.  I'm pretty sure that once you get yourself functional again you won't be bad in all 3.  Maybe only two, eh.

FTP test on the schedule for tomorrow .  Anyone else have any "fun" plans for the weekend?

Also, I signed up for a swim camp on Feb 18th that is being run by the coach of one of the local college's swim teams.  It's supposed to be geared towards triathletes.  Only 2 hours (although there are 3 sessions so I suppose if I like it I could attend the other 2 also).  They're offering under-water video and swim analysis.  Probably should spend some time in the water before then...

Janet

Hey Janet,

Swim camps/clinics can be helpful.  Make sure you get a copy of any video they take as it is invaluable after you leave the camp.  Don't be frustrated when they find deficiencies with your stroke.  A good swim coach can find deficiencies with ANYONE - even elite swimmers.  You especially want him to comment on your position in the water and the quality of your catch and EVF (early vertical forearm).

We're having a bit of "false spring!"  It was 57 today, so an outdoor ride and a run were in order.  Tomorrow's supposed to rain so back inside on the trainer for a Sweet Spot ride.  Sunday is a big family gathering that we've been looking forward too for a couple weeks now.

Hey Rebecca,

I have a very good friend, she played soccer at a very high level for over a decade.  She was in consideration for a spot on Team USA until she tore her meniscus.  She'd had a MCL repaired on her right knee then a ACL repaired on her right knee.  When she tore the meniscus the doctors told her they could get her back to at least 93-98% of before injury mobility.  After a lot of  though and heartache she finally decided that enough was enough and retired from soccer.  She's now coaching her two daughter's AYSO team.  She says she now has twice the competition with half the work and is loving life.  There's an old saying - "When one door closes, another opens."

Hey everyone!  Just a reminder - the first weigh-in for the weight loss challenge is Sunday.  You don't need to report anything, just write it down so next week when you weight-in again you will know how much you have lost!

(weight-2036970_640.jpg)

You can do all that on a treadmill to make the agony complete!