Royal(PITA)

14270

West Chester, Ohio

Subject: RE: Mad Manatee Mentors 2013: CLOSED (exc/ Pop Tart bribes)

Originally posted by amd723

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Originally posted by TriAya

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Originally posted by QueenZipp

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Originally posted by amd723

Originally posted by Asalzwed

And if you haven't yet made up your mind, I can elaborate but I'm time crunched right now and my phone typing is dreadful. Keep in mind a tune up doesn't have to be a HM. It can be 10k 22k 10 miler etc. it's just that the closer to the distance the more it's gonna tell ya

But do you think the tune up has to be at an organized run vs running that distance on your own at race pace?

Yes

When you have a moment, would you elaborate on why you strongly support them? I am just curious to the different opinions on the subject since II have never done this distance.

Because first, a lot like people's advice on training with groups (masters, group rides etc) you can only push yourself so hard. It's the people that push you a little harder than you think you can go. Second, the race environment can really only be simulated by well, a race. It's only then when everything comes together (nutrition, hydration, race pace, nerves, race strategy etc.) then you can get a true evaluation (which is what tune ups are all about)

As much as I hate giving Salty any kind of pleasure or satisfaction right now, unfortunately, she's actually frequently right.

While I don't think a planned trained-for tune-up race hurts anybody, there are two general groups of people for whom they are most valuable (pretty much for the same reason) ... and it happens that most people are going to fall into those categories.

First are folks going into a new distance. It doesn't matter that the tune-up race isn't of that distance; a new distance means your training has also been new/more/different. The tune-up is to see where you are at NOW, at this different level of training (and frankly to also to assess whether it's been effective as intended and to be able to make any changes to it while you still can). A race is going to be a more accurate assessment of that.

Second are folks aiming for a definite goal. Look, if I decided to do a mary a few months from now in a gorilla suit (hope it's somewhere cold), just to have fun and waddle it, I do not need a tune-up race. Have done marys. Have done halfs. Have done them dressed up. Have done them untrained.

However, if I actually decided to use a running-oriented (e.g., not Galloway), goal-oriented training plan and run a marathon for time, despite my experience at the marathon distance, yes, I still need a tune-up race. If the goal weren't important to me, I'd just do it in a gorilla suit. But if it is important to me, and I've put X training in specifically geared toward that, then I want an accurate as possible assessment and test of that training at a point where a) I'm prepared for it, and b) it's still far enough out that I can make adjustments (to training and/or race execution plan).

Awwwwweeee yeeeeaaah! See, that's what I would have written if I had a real keyboard

I'm not trying to argue about this as I recognize that you both are more experienced/ accomplished in this area and actually pay attention to things that I just gloss over, but I know that when I have trained for my marathons I never had a plan that scheduled a race as part of the training. I went back and looked through Hal Higdon's plans (i've got his book) and I don't see that any of them have a practice race as part of the plan. I also did a quick look at Daniel's Running Formula book and I don't see any races in his plans either. Maybe I missed it.

So, I don't disagree that a race will give you an idea of where you are and help you practice nutrition etc., which obviously can be very helpful, I just don't see how running a half marathon and half marathon pace is going to tell you a lot about the marathon. Again, not trying to argue (I do enough of that at work

), just trying to understand.

I will say that every triathlon plan I've looked at has included races as part of the training. I wonder why those plan include races and marathons training plans (those that I've seen and or used) do not.

Judi, what plan are you using. I will laugh if you say HIgdon's !

I am using Higdon Intermediate 1. Laugh a lot. From the edition of his book that I have, he doesn't advise a lot of tune up racing because the pace for each distance / efforts are different. He does have the half way through the plan half marathon. Could it be a different edition of the book you are looking at? I think he has changed his point of view over different edition printings.

I had posted these questions in my blog and specifically asked a few seasoned marathoners for feedback. One said it's good to do the half IF I go in for practicing marathon pace and nutrition. I have NO clue what my marathon pace would be since my longest runs have been half marathons. I am going on the assumption that for me my marathon pace is going to be fairly slow--like 10 min mile + range cause it will really be a test to see if I can complete it without frying my legs.

Mad Manatee Mentors 2013: CLOSED (exc/ Pop Tart bribes) (Page 63)

Congratulations TJ!!!

CONGRATULATIONS SALTY!

Congratulations Kate!!!

REGISTER TODAY