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 2009-04-07 9:27 AM in reply to: #2067710 |
Champion  7163     Verona WI--Ironman Bike Country! |  Subject: RE: swbkrun's group- CLOSEDRedknight - 2009-04-07 8:27 AM I went to the chiropractor this morning and still have a weaker hip flexor muscle. Do any of you know some things I can do to strengthen it. I do a lot of core and ab work but still seem to have trouble with the one side, especially after a long run. He said everything else is good and strong. If you are looking for advice on your form, a running coach might help, but I would suggest a good PT who works with runners first. They can do the physical testing necessary to determine imbalances, watch or video tape the run, and provide exercises to address them. I completely agree with Tracy, weak glutes are often the cause of other muscles becoming overworked. I am addressing the weak glute issue now (hamstrings too). As a result of this issue, I was putting undue pressure on my adductors causing them to be sore a lot and wreaking havoc on my running. Steve, thanks for the course advice. I did Steve Winters this morning and liked it a lot! I love my CT!  |
| 2009-04-07 11:43 AM in reply to: #2067710 |
Pro 4100 Wherever the trail takes me, WA. | Subject: RE: swbkrun's group- CLOSED Redknight - 2009-04-07 6:27 AM I went to the chiropractor this morning and still have a weaker hip flexor muscle. Do any of you know some things I can do to strengthen it. I do a lot of core and ab work but still seem to have trouble with the one side, especially after a long run. He said everything else is good and strong. Do you think a running coach would help? HOT YOGA! The CURE ALL FOR YOUR CORE PROBLEMS! For my core problems though I turn to Alcohol!  |
| 2009-04-07 12:39 PM in reply to: #2067710 |
Extreme Veteran 689 | Subject: RE: swbkrun's group- CLOSED Redknight - 2009-04-07 9:27 AM I went to the chiropractor this morning and still have a weaker hip flexor muscle. Do any of you know some things I can do to strengthen it. I do a lot of core and ab work but still seem to have trouble with the one side, especially after a long run. He said everything else is good and strong. Do you think a running coach would help? if you want specific exercises, my PT has me do one of 2 exercises. 1) lay flat on your back with your arms above your head. Lift your legs and arms (keep both as straight as possible) so that you make a v shape. Slowly do the lifting motion and lowering motion (he has me count to 5 during the lifting and count to 5 down). 2) Do a side plank, ie all weight on rt arm rt legg. Make sure your hips are 3 inch or more off the ground. The top leg (in my example the left leg) keep straight and lift 3 inch from your lower leg and swing forward and backward for a 30 sec set and switch sides. Do a few sets.. |
| 2009-04-07 12:57 PM in reply to: #2068449 |
Champion 9060 Charlottesville, Virginia | Subject: RE: swbkrun's group- CLOSED I put this in my training blog but wanted to get your guys advice. Just got back from a lesson (took a long lunch break) Indoor pool at American University so real swim type place. She had me doing 25's working on my form. My strokes ranged from 14-16 per 25 My times ranged from 18-20 seconds per 25 On the fast side that gives me a 100 time of 1:12 On the slow side that gives me a 100 time of 1:20 At work where I swim my best 100 time ever has been 1:40 and if there was an oxygen tank available I would have a mask connected to it to breathe out of because I was so wiped out. I think my work pool is supposed to be 25 meters and AU's pool is supposed to be 25 yards. How is there a 20 second per 100 difference? If I am really swimming 1:20 100's shouldn't I be dusting people at my work pool, I find I am slower than the majority there as there are quite a few good swimmers there. Really confused. |
| 2009-04-07 1:10 PM in reply to: #2068510 |
Champion 9060 Charlottesville, Virginia | Subject: RE: swbkrun's group- CLOSED I just sent her an e-mail and she said it was more like 20-23 even still that is way faster than I think I am swimming. |
| 2009-04-07 1:39 PM in reply to: #2068510 |
Elite 4108 Calgary,AB,Canada | Subject: RE: swbkrun's group- CLOSED dalessit - 2009-04-07 11:57 AM I put this in my training blog but wanted to get your guys advice. Just got back from a lesson (took a long lunch break) Indoor pool at American University so real swim type place. She had me doing 25's working on my form. My strokes ranged from 14-16 per 25 My times ranged from 18-20 seconds per 25 On the fast side that gives me a 100 time of 1:12 On the slow side that gives me a 100 time of 1:20 At work where I swim my best 100 time ever has been 1:40 and if there was an oxygen tank available I would have a mask connected to it to breathe out of because I was so wiped out. I think my work pool is supposed to be 25 meters and AU's pool is supposed to be 25 yards. How is there a 20 second per 100 difference? If I am really swimming 1:20 100's shouldn't I be dusting people at my work pool, I find I am slower than the majority there as there are quite a few good swimmers there. Really confused. Aren't you the guy who complains about being a crappy swimmer? Tony man, I would kill for that speed! When I'm balls to the wall, It's 20 strokes total for 25m, and more like 1:50/100m..But i bet yes there is a small diference in pool length. |
| 2009-04-07 1:47 PM in reply to: #2068678 |
Champion 9060 Charlottesville, Virginia | Subject: RE: swbkrun's group- CLOSED TrevorC - 2009-04-07 2:39 PM dalessit - 2009-04-07 11:57 AM I put this in my training blog but wanted to get your guys advice. Just got back from a lesson (took a long lunch break) Indoor pool at American University so real swim type place. She had me doing 25's working on my form. My strokes ranged from 14-16 per 25 My times ranged from 18-20 seconds per 25 On the fast side that gives me a 100 time of 1:12 On the slow side that gives me a 100 time of 1:20 At work where I swim my best 100 time ever has been 1:40 and if there was an oxygen tank available I would have a mask connected to it to breathe out of because I was so wiped out. I think my work pool is supposed to be 25 meters and AU's pool is supposed to be 25 yards. How is there a 20 second per 100 difference? If I am really swimming 1:20 100's shouldn't I be dusting people at my work pool, I find I am slower than the majority there as there are quite a few good swimmers there. Really confused. Aren't you the guy who complains about being a crappy swimmer? Tony man, I would kill for that speed! When I'm balls to the wall, It's 20 strokes total for 25m, and more like 1:50/100m..But i bet yes there is a small diference in pool length. Yeah but can you swim 1500M easily? that is what I keep trying to figure that out. I wasn't going hard at all for those times but I still get tired after 500M or so. Will see if once my allergies are over with if my new breathing setup helps with that, I used to only breathe out my nose while swimming, and I think that is what was causing me to gas so badly. Also my wife says I have a mental condition with swimming, so if it's ok with you guys I like to come here and whine about it : ) |
| 2009-04-07 3:09 PM in reply to: #1856701 |
Master 2436 Apex, north carolina | Subject: RE: swbkrun's group- CLOSED Tony, I have heard the difference between yds and meter pools matters over larger distances, but I agree, that seems like a big difference for a short distance. Is the American University pool salty? Isn't salt water suppose to make you more bouyant? Also, I have heard about "fast pools" in the sense they have smoother concrete surfaces and a few finer details that reduce the water movement and thus the drag on the swimmers. But I'm guessing here. Maybe you're just a bigger stud than you thought?  Have you tried slowing down for the longer distances? Just like with running. Or swim for a set amount of time, not laps. That way you aren't syking yourself out once you past the 1500yd mark. Swim for an hour straight and then see how you feel. |
| 2009-04-07 3:12 PM in reply to: #2068913 |
Champion 9060 Charlottesville, Virginia | Subject: RE: swbkrun's group- CLOSED tahrens - 2009-04-07 4:09 PM Tony, I have heard the difference between yds and meter pools matters over larger distances, but I agree, that seems like a big difference for a short distance. Is the American University pool salty? Isn't salt water suppose to make you more bouyant? Also, I have heard about "fast pools" in the sense they have smoother concrete surfaces and a few finer details that reduce the water movement and thus the drag on the swimmers. But I'm guessing here. Maybe you're just a bigger stud than you thought? Have you tried slowing down for the longer distances? Just like with running. Or swim for a set amount of time, not laps. That way you aren't syking yourself out once you past the 1500yd mark. Swim for an hour straight and then see how you feel. LOL, I must be a stud if you say so and my coach does also, I sent her an e-mail to verify my times and said I thought they were too fast and her response was. "Hey, you're a stud. What can I say?" too funny. As far as slowing down, today at my lesson not sure I could be any more relaxed than I was. Also AU is a chorine pool not saline. I swim faster at all the HS pools than I do at work so I think my work pool is just slower or bigger than the rest. At least this gives me some hope, though not sure it will make swimming any more enjoyable, it is still boring staring at a black line for 30 minutes or so. |
| 2009-04-07 3:26 PM in reply to: #2068920 |
Master 2436 Apex, north carolina | Subject: RE: swbkrun's group- CLOSED dalessit - 2009-04-07 4:12 PM tahrens - 2009-04-07 4:09 PM Tony, I have heard the difference between yds and meter pools matters over larger distances, but I agree, that seems like a big difference for a short distance. Is the American University pool salty? Isn't salt water suppose to make you more bouyant? Also, I have heard about "fast pools" in the sense they have smoother concrete surfaces and a few finer details that reduce the water movement and thus the drag on the swimmers. But I'm guessing here. Maybe you're just a bigger stud than you thought? Have you tried slowing down for the longer distances? Just like with running. Or swim for a set amount of time, not laps. That way you aren't syking yourself out once you past the 1500yd mark. Swim for an hour straight and then see how you feel. LOL, I must be a stud if you say so and my coach does also, I sent her an e-mail to verify my times and said I thought they were too fast and her response was. "Hey, you're a stud. What can I say?" too funny. As far as slowing down, today at my lesson not sure I could be any more relaxed than I was. Also AU is a chorine pool not saline. I swim faster at all the HS pools than I do at work so I think my work pool is just slower or bigger than the rest. At least this gives me some hope, though not sure it will make swimming any more enjoyable, it is still boring staring at a black line for 30 minutes or so. Tape nudey pictures to the inside of your goggles.  |
| 2009-04-07 3:29 PM in reply to: #2068967 |
Champion 9060 Charlottesville, Virginia | Subject: RE: swbkrun's group- CLOSED tahrens - 2009-04-07 4:26 PM dalessit - 2009-04-07 4:12 PM tahrens - 2009-04-07 4:09 PM Tony, I have heard the difference between yds and meter pools matters over larger distances, but I agree, that seems like a big difference for a short distance. Is the American University pool salty? Isn't salt water suppose to make you more bouyant? Also, I have heard about "fast pools" in the sense they have smoother concrete surfaces and a few finer details that reduce the water movement and thus the drag on the swimmers. But I'm guessing here. Maybe you're just a bigger stud than you thought? Have you tried slowing down for the longer distances? Just like with running. Or swim for a set amount of time, not laps. That way you aren't syking yourself out once you past the 1500yd mark. Swim for an hour straight and then see how you feel. LOL, I must be a stud if you say so and my coach does also, I sent her an e-mail to verify my times and said I thought they were too fast and her response was. "Hey, you're a stud. What can I say?" too funny. As far as slowing down, today at my lesson not sure I could be any more relaxed than I was. Also AU is a chorine pool not saline. I swim faster at all the HS pools than I do at work so I think my work pool is just slower or bigger than the rest. At least this gives me some hope, though not sure it will make swimming any more enjoyable, it is still boring staring at a black line for 30 minutes or so. Tape nudey pictures to the inside of your goggles. I like your thinking girl! |
| 2009-04-07 4:13 PM in reply to: #2068981 |
Elite 4108 Calgary,AB,Canada | Subject: RE: swbkrun's group- CLOSED dalessit - 2009-04-07 2:29 PM tahrens - 2009-04-07 4:26 PM dalessit - 2009-04-07 4:12 PM tahrens - 2009-04-07 4:09 PM Tony, I have heard the difference between yds and meter pools matters over larger distances, but I agree, that seems like a big difference for a short distance. Is the American University pool salty? Isn't salt water suppose to make you more bouyant? Also, I have heard about "fast pools" in the sense they have smoother concrete surfaces and a few finer details that reduce the water movement and thus the drag on the swimmers. But I'm guessing here. Maybe you're just a bigger stud than you thought? Have you tried slowing down for the longer distances? Just like with running. Or swim for a set amount of time, not laps. That way you aren't syking yourself out once you past the 1500yd mark. Swim for an hour straight and then see how you feel. LOL, I must be a stud if you say so and my coach does also, I sent her an e-mail to verify my times and said I thought they were too fast and her response was. "Hey, you're a stud. What can I say?" too funny. As far as slowing down, today at my lesson not sure I could be any more relaxed than I was. Also AU is a chorine pool not saline. I swim faster at all the HS pools than I do at work so I think my work pool is just slower or bigger than the rest. At least this gives me some hope, though not sure it will make swimming any more enjoyable, it is still boring staring at a black line for 30 minutes or so. Tape nudey pictures to the inside of your goggles. I like your thinking girl! Although, that Tracy's idea makes it hard for you to find the end of the pool...... One thing you could do, I see a few people with them is get one of those funky waterproof Mp3 player's??Personally, I like the quiet time in the pool. But maybe??? |
| 2009-04-07 5:06 PM in reply to: #1856701 |
Master 1952 Guelph, Ontario | Subject: RE: swbkrun's group- CLOSED You do realize don't you Tony that a stub is a little pice of metal that is stuck on a winter tire for grip. If you are swimming 1:10's you should be talking to the olympic swim team coach. That is indredibly fast. |
| 2009-04-07 5:52 PM in reply to: #1856701 |
Pro 4100 Wherever the trail takes me, WA. | Subject: RE: swbkrun's group- CLOSED Tony... That is an epic time... My best time ever was a 1:18 and I thought I was going to black out! Please be sure to teach us what you learned!! |
| 2009-04-07 6:13 PM in reply to: #2069319 |
Champion 9060 Charlottesville, Virginia | Subject: RE: swbkrun's group- CLOSED swbkrun - 2009-04-07 6:52 PM Tony... That is an epic time... My best time ever was a 1:18 and I thought I was going to black out! Please be sure to teach us what you learned!! She did reply that is was more like 20 -23 so not quite as fast but still way faster than what I have been doing. That equates to 1:20 - 1:30 per 100 Though even 1:10's aren't that fast in real swimming terms, read some of the posts where people ask what fast swimmers swim and for many 1:15 is cruising speed. We just focused on keeping my stroke long and gliding through the water. Actually she had me more swimming catch up drill than what I was considering actual swimming, she said to do a 25 at 100% catchup i.e. one hand out, other hand gets even, then start the pull. She said I was actually at about 90 - 95% catchup and it looked like a good stroke for me to work with so that is how I am swimming now. Not sure if that makes sense. If I can really swim 1:20 - 1:30 100's I will be extatic(SP?) I am just really confused because of pool lengths what I am really swimming because at work I am avg'ing 2:00 - 2:05/100 Well at least untill my bubble bursts I am happy with my swim technique right now... Also, Steve are you going to do another mentor group? I see they are getting ready to start up new ones again. Edited by dalessit 2009-04-07 6:22 PM |
| 2009-04-07 7:49 PM in reply to: #1856701 |
Pro 4100 Wherever the trail takes me, WA. | Subject: RE: swbkrun's group- CLOSED Tracy.... HERE IS YOUR TRI-BIKE!!! It's a nice bike, and good price! Tony I am game to do ANOTHER mentor Group. I think the pre summer, summer is very crucial.... I didn't see a link for it... |
| 2009-04-07 7:54 PM in reply to: #1856701 |
Extreme Veteran 689 | Subject: RE: swbkrun's group- CLOSED Hi Steve and other experienced OWSers. in terms of sighting in OWS do you think bilateral breathing is sufficient to properly make your way through the swim or should people incorporate heads-up breathing? During my swim sets, I've been mainly bilateral breathing or practicing breathing on only one side or the other. Occasionally I’ve been doing sets were I would do one heads-up breath per lap but I noticed it tires me out much faster. |
| 2009-04-07 8:30 PM in reply to: #2069604 |
Champion 9060 Charlottesville, Virginia | Subject: RE: swbkrun's group- CLOSED trying1 - 2009-04-07 8:54 PM Hi Steve and other experienced OWSers. in terms of sighting in OWS do you think bilateral breathing is sufficient to properly make your way through the swim or should people incorporate heads-up breathing? During my swim sets, I've been mainly bilateral breathing or practicing breathing on only one side or the other. Occasionally I’ve been doing sets were I would do one heads-up breath per lap but I noticed it tires me out much faster. For me personally that isn't enough, depending on how the swim is configured, looking to the side doesn't help me spot buoys to make sure that I am heading in the right direction. Let me see if I can explain correctly how I do it (I am actually sitting in front of my computer swimming in air to try to explain) Between my 3rd and 4th breath (I only breathe to the right), when I have my left hand extended out in front of me as if I am going to pullI look forward under water first, then raise my head up out of the water a bit to see and my hand then pushes down into the water into my stroke. The trick is don't raise your whole body out of water to look, that disrupts your whole stroke and you lose momentum which will tire you out after awhile, you just need to get your eyes looking forward above water. When I first started trying to sight I was going right from my stroke to looking above water, I figured out a small point that if you look forward first under water you can easily pop your head up just enough to see and make it back to your normal stroke. Not sure if any of that made sense, hopefully someone else has a better explanation but that is what I do. Also if I seem to be swimming in a straight line pretty well I might extend it out a bit and not sight as often. I think Rob pointed that out to me last year and it worked pretty well. |
| 2009-04-07 8:32 PM in reply to: #2069693 |
Champion 9060 Charlottesville, Virginia | Subject: RE: swbkrun's group- CLOSED Here's the link steve http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/forum-view.asp?fid=110#s Bitter that girl passing on left crushed us in the post count this time. |
| 2009-04-07 9:11 PM in reply to: #2069693 |
Extreme Veteran 689 | Subject: RE: swbkrun's group- CLOSED dalessit - 2009-04-07 9:30 PM trying1 - 2009-04-07 8:54 PM Hi Steve and other experienced OWSers. in terms of sighting in OWS do you think bilateral breathing is sufficient to properly make your way through the swim or should people incorporate heads-up breathing? During my swim sets, I've been mainly bilateral breathing or practicing breathing on only one side or the other. Occasionally I’ve been doing sets were I would do one heads-up breath per lap but I noticed it tires me out much faster. For me personally that isn't enough, depending on how the swim is configured, looking to the side doesn't help me spot buoys to make sure that I am heading in the right direction. Let me see if I can explain correctly how I do it (I am actually sitting in front of my computer swimming in air to try to explain) Between my 3rd and 4th breath (I only breathe to the right), when I have my left hand extended out in front of me as if I am going to pullI look forward under water first, then raise my head up out of the water a bit to see and my hand then pushes down into the water into my stroke. The trick is don't raise your whole body out of water to look, that disrupts your whole stroke and you lose momentum which will tire you out after awhile, you just need to get your eyes looking forward above water. When I first started trying to sight I was going right from my stroke to looking above water, I figured out a small point that if you look forward first under water you can easily pop your head up just enough to see and make it back to your normal stroke. Not sure if any of that made sense, hopefully someone else has a better explanation but that is what I do. Also if I seem to be swimming in a straight line pretty well I might extend it out a bit and not sight as often. I think Rob pointed that out to me last year and it worked pretty well. Thanks! I think I am raising a good part of the body above the water.. I'll try it tomorrow! |
| 2009-04-07 10:23 PM in reply to: #1856701 |
Expert 945 Auburn AL | Subject: RE: swbkrun's group- CLOSED Tony I guess my point or question is...Is this the way your coach is steering you for the long haul? Is this more along the TI principles? |
| 2009-04-08 7:01 AM in reply to: #1856701 |
Master 1952 Guelph, Ontario | Subject: RE: swbkrun's group- CLOSED When I was relearning how to swim last year one thing my coach told me to try was to take a half stroke when sighting. This allowed me to do two things actually. One sight and two take another breath. The technique is: when your hand is leaving the water at your hip raise your head slightly and sight and breath at the same time. Drop your arm into the water at about shoulder level and immediately stroke back instead of going into the glide position (half stroke). From there go into your normal rythym. I did this for a little while until I got more comfortable about sighting. Now I am able to continue with a full stroke and I sight about every 12 arm strokes. It is uncomfortable sighting until you get used to it. One other thing: Do we need to start a new mentor group or can we keep going on this one? We are just getting to know one another and feeling comfortable with our discussions. Just wondering if the spring mentor session is an opportunity for those that did not join one last fall. Edited by Redknight 2009-04-08 7:03 AM |
| 2009-04-08 8:07 AM in reply to: #1856701 |
Expert 1007 Missouri | Subject: RE: swbkrun's group- CLOSED I was wondering the same thing about the mentor groups. Do we need to "re-apply" to this group or does it keep going? I know I don't post here much, but I read it every day and have learned from the discussions. On another note, I dragged my butt out of bed this morning to get to the gym hoping that I could get in a good swim. Trying to swim in the evenings just doesn't work - too many people because of the open swimming. The mornings are adults only lap swimming so I thought I'd go down and see how busy it was. If every morning is like this morning was, I'll definitely be doing this more often. There were only 2 other people in the pool and one was just finishing up when I got there. So I was able to get in a good 500m (probably could have done more but didn't know how long it would take me to clean up and still get to work on time). I also swim better in the mornings - not as tired from a long day I guess. I was starting to lose a little motivation for swimming so this may be what I need to do to get my workouts in. |
| 2009-04-08 8:23 AM in reply to: #2069961 |
Champion 9060 Charlottesville, Virginia | Subject: RE: swbkrun's group- CLOSED Plainsman AU - 2009-04-07 11:23 PM Tony I guess my point or question is...Is this the way your coach is steering you for the long haul? Is this more along the TI principles? Yeah pretty much, she told me to do a 100% catchup drill meaning make sure that the left hand stays still until the right hand gets there. I swam a 25 and she said I was more like 90-95% catchup which was a perfect regular stroke for me, so I was pulling the left arm back when the right arm was almost there. This was almost my fastest non sprinting speed and it was super comfortable so make sense to go with it for now. I went to masters this morning taught by a completely different coach. He had us doing catchup drill this morning focusing on strong pulls after catchup. There was a triathlete in my lane who I was talking to, he said that it was the first time he had done that drill and realized he was swimming as fast if not faster and much more relaxed doing it that way so he was going to work on trying to swim like that also. my regular coach is teaching a TI influenced stroke, Terry Laughlin the TI "inventor" was her High school coach. I like her method better because I think TI kind of leaves out a very important part i.e. propulsion, how the heck to you make this stroke move you forward in a reasonable amount of time. So I swam this morning not quite as fast but was still doing 1:40-1:45/100 which I am super happy with. Seems to make a big difference when you are in a lane with 3 people and all kinds of stuff going on vs. being the only person in the pool with a coach instructing. |
| 2009-04-08 8:24 AM in reply to: #2070438 |
Champion 9060 Charlottesville, Virginia | Subject: RE: swbkrun's group- CLOSED Oh and as far as the mentor group goes, we might just get moved to the archived section for a bit then they will create a new thread in the mentors forum, that is what happened last time. The forum bogs down when they get a ton of almost 100 page threads so it makes sense to re-start them every so often. |
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