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SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN (Page 73)
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 2013-09-06 2:19 PM in reply to: 0 |
 Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPENOriginally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by ChrisM Originally posted by Fred D Originally posted by TankBoy . USA might just win this year as I'm not sure any if our SBR folks racing are from Canada this time. So we *might* have a chance.... Originally posted by ChrisM I am a bit embarrassed at the numbers given the work I put in.... Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, slow down just a minute!!! Originally posted by blbriley Thanks Chris for putting this out there for group dissection. Between the discussions on BT and FB I'm learning how much I don't know about power. My one hope is you don't see your race a a failure, and all of this after action analysis is for doing the next one better. Yes, this. ETA: So we can ALL do the next one better. PSA: IM Mont Tremblant The Second Annual SBR Utopia Smack-Down is still open for general registration.... Yeah, I've looked, but if I were to do one next year (big if), it would have to be a quick in and out, and MT is too far and too $$$ to do that. I'd be limited to CdA or Whistler. I've monopolized enough of Wendy's time that I can't make a 2014 IM our vacation. I've promised her that she gets to pick the trip next year.... for years... then another option always comes up. Sometimes just my idea, sometimes ours. She wants to do Costa Rica 2014 so I need to plan around that. I could do Cda or Whistler by flying out Thursday nite and returning Monday. Even though we don't have kids it's still a balancing act How appealing is something like Leadman, with the more swimming & riding, but less running? I wish they had something closer than Bend though. I want to do it, but that's a big trip for me. Leadman was totally on my radar when it was in Vegas. Bend is a little off the map, although it looks totally gorgeous. When Leadman moved to Tempe after taking vegas signups it fell off the map. Nothing "Epic" about Tempe ETA - but actually now looking at Bend, it's cheap and easy to get to from LA and lodging does not seem unreasonable... I gues it just "feels" off the map Edited by ChrisM 2013-09-06 2:43 PM |
| 2013-09-06 2:46 PM in reply to: TankBoy |
| Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN 3) This may be WAY out in left field, but something looks really funny to me re: 185lbs, 6:00 bike on that course, at 168 watts. I know Marc can probably run the numbers, but damn, that seems awfully slippery to me.... Marc's got the files, but curious what you mean by slippery? should be higher? lower? these things are not intuitive to me, so when I hear someone is XX pounds and rode XX watts for XX time, I am not sure what numbers I *should* be seeing For what it's worth, until the flats power sure seemed to be on with RPE. I am trying to recall from the hazy fog, whether there was a power dropout at some point. I seem to remember that, but honestly cannot be sure :^ |
| 2013-09-06 3:01 PM in reply to: ChrisM |
Master 10208   Northern IL | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN Originally posted by ChrisM 3) This may be WAY out in left field, but something looks really funny to me re: 185lbs, 6:00 bike on that course, at 168 watts. I know Marc can probably run the numbers, but damn, that seems awfully slippery to me.... Marc's got the files, but curious what you mean by slippery? should be higher? lower? these things are not intuitive to me, so when I hear someone is XX pounds and rode XX watts for XX time, I am not sure what numbers I *should* be seeing For what it's worth, until the flats power sure seemed to be on with RPE. I am trying to recall from the hazy fog, whether there was a power dropout at some point. I seem to remember that, but honestly cannot be sure :^ Slippery as in slip through the air very well. That seems very fast for the power to me as well. |
| 2013-09-06 3:16 PM in reply to: brigby1 |
| Payson, AZ | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN Chris, I did one of my HIM's on the same course they do Leadmen on. You'd love it. I'd highly recommend racing in the area. Especially if you like really friggen cold water for your swim. |
| 2013-09-06 3:18 PM in reply to: bzgl40 |
| Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN Originally posted by bzgl40 Chris, I did one of my HIM's on the same course they do Leadmen on. You'd love it. I'd highly recommend racing in the area. Especially if you like really friggen cold water for your swim. Did you fly right into Redomond? recs on places to stay? |
| 2013-09-06 3:42 PM in reply to: 0 |
| Payson, AZ | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN Originally posted by ChrisM Originally posted by bzgl40 Chris, I did one of my HIM's on the same course they do Leadmen on. You'd love it. I'd highly recommend racing in the area. Especially if you like really friggen cold water for your swim. Did you fly right into Redomond? recs on places to stay? I actually flew into Portland and drove down with some friends. I signed up when I still lived there. I "camped", stayed in a cabin not too far from the swim start at a state park (in LaPine). But if you were serious about going I could get you some Sunriver recommendations from friends. It is a very popular destination for folks from the Portland area. Stay a few extra days and float the river, rent some mountain bikes, hike, etc. Its quite the outdoor destination area. I've never flown into Redmond so can't say much on flying in there. It's pretty close to the area you want to be though. Small airport. Most fly into Portland. It is about a 3 hour drive, heading up over Mt Hood so that's a pretty cool drive. Edited by bzgl40 2013-09-06 3:47 PM |
 2013-09-06 4:01 PM in reply to: ChrisM |
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| 2013-09-06 4:03 PM in reply to: ChrisM |
| Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN Good RR from a pro at Canada that you all may find interesting. Not sure if his 223w was AP or NP for 5:15. |
| 2013-09-06 4:07 PM in reply to: 0 |
| Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN For other reference, someone collected these numbers from an ST thread re bike course overview. Numbers are AP 5:25 at 214w and 172lbs (1.25) - Jctriguy 6:00 at 168 and 185 lb. ME Edited by ChrisM 2013-09-06 4:08 PM |
[acording to the powerfile]| 2013-09-06 4:08 PM in reply to: ChrisM |
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| 2013-09-06 4:13 PM in reply to: Jason N |
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| 2013-09-06 4:17 PM in reply to: ChrisM |
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| 2013-09-06 4:17 PM in reply to: Fred D |
| Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN Originally posted by Fred D Originally posted by ChrisM . Slippery means very aero. I don't have a side view of your bike position, but I don't think you ride really aggressively low, so I doubt you would be in the extremely slippery category. You can't really say XX speed for XX watts, but 6 hours on that very challenging course seems very fast for the average watts you posted. This could imply that the power meter was under reporting your true power output, but it could also reflect other things. Draft effect, really smooth roads etc. at you weight with the watts you listed I would have expected closer to 6;30 but that's a clever guess at best. Question?? What speed did you ride at IMAZ a few years ago and what speed. Then what HR and speed at whistler? Different courses, but interested in the data. 3) This may be WAY out in left field, but something looks really funny to me re: 185lbs, 6:00 bike on that course, at 168 watts. I know Marc can probably run the numbers, but damn, that seems awfully slippery to me.... Marc's got the files, but curious what you mean by slippery? should be higher? lower? these things are not intuitive to me, so when I hear someone is XX pounds and rode XX watts for XX time, I am not sure what numbers I *should* be seeing For what it's worth, until the flats power sure seemed to be on with RPE. I am trying to recall from the hazy fog, whether there was a power dropout at some point. I seem to remember that, but honestly cannot be sure :^ Yeah. likely not slippery. IMAZ was 2008, plus 40 pounds, time was 5:56, ave. 18.87. Whistler was 6:00 (moving) 18.42 mph, ave hr 138. |
| 2013-09-06 4:35 PM in reply to: Fred D |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN Originally posted by Fred D Originally posted by ChrisM . This also makes me question your power meter. Some of those guys are 20lbs lighter and the last guy is almost 30lbs lighter....he rode only 10' faster than you and averaged 8 watts more. For that weight I would have suspected he would have been much faster than 10' than you on such an incredibly hilly course. Maybe I'm alone in this, but this seems like its not right? Anyone else care to chime in? For other reference, someone collected these numbers from an ST thread re bike course overview. Numbers are AP 5:25 at 214w and 172lbs (1.25) - Jctriguy 6:00 at 168 and 185 lb. ME I looked at his files quickly but need more time His Powermeter seems fine. If you look at his cda it's around .27. If his PM was off it would be lower One culprit of his AP is a little on the low side is he stopped three times to pee and left the "meter running". His AP was coming down faster than his NP...I think...I need to investigate this but may be one of the reasons for the higher VI There were 2 'spikes' of 230 watts between 3 and 4 minutes, but nothing else crazy need more time to analyze. |
| 2013-09-06 4:38 PM in reply to: marcag |
| Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN Thanks Marc, appreciate the time. I forgot, i usually autopause the 910 but turn that off to race, so yes the clock was running while I was going |
| 2013-09-06 4:50 PM in reply to: marcag |
| Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Fred D Originally posted by ChrisM . This also makes me question your power meter. Some of those guys are 20lbs lighter and the last guy is almost 30lbs lighter....he rode only 10' faster than you and averaged 8 watts more. For that weight I would have suspected he would have been much faster than 10' than you on such an incredibly hilly course. Maybe I'm alone in this, but this seems like its not right? Anyone else care to chime in? For other reference, someone collected these numbers from an ST thread re bike course overview. Numbers are AP 5:25 at 214w and 172lbs (1.25) - Jctriguy 6:00 at 168 and 185 lb. ME I looked at his files quickly but need more time His Powermeter seems fine. If you look at his cda it's around .27. If his PM was off it would be lower One culprit of his AP is a little on the low side is he stopped three times to pee and left the "meter running". His AP was coming down faster than his NP...I think...I need to investigate this but may be one of the reasons for the higher VI There were 2 'spikes' of 230 watts between 3 and 4 minutes, but nothing else crazy need more time to analyze. the pee breaks only bring his AP down by 2 or 3 and leave his NP the same, so this is a small factor. |
| 2013-09-06 4:58 PM in reply to: marcag |
| Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN Thanks again Marc, this discussion is fascinating to me |
| 2013-09-06 5:49 PM in reply to: Fred D |
| Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN Fred, I'm anxious to see what Marc makes of the data with more time to analyze, but to answer your question, no, it did not strike me as unusual that at 185 lbs, Chris rode 6:00 at 168w AP. If it were a training ride, without aero goodies and a few stop signs thrown in there, then yes, that would be pretty quick on that amount of watts. Too hard to tell without knowing road surface or how much braking was required but it seemed in the ball park to me. Great discussion going on though. |
| 2013-09-06 5:52 PM in reply to: ChrisM |
| Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN Chris....could it be you coast quite a bit ? If I take all the time you are below 100 watts but your speed is below 50km/h (30min) it's about 30min If replace many of those low wattages by say 140watts, I bring your AP to 176w I understand why you are at 0 watts when going downhill at >50km/j, but at slower speeds you should be applying more power. I took a look at your run file You were running a pretty aggressive first half hour, it was uphill and your normalized pace, that takes in account the hill and your weight had you sub 9min/mile. |
| 2013-09-06 5:56 PM in reply to: 0 |
| Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN I think I do. And I would guess I probably start coasting at 25 mph or so. Part of that is me being a wuss. Part of that is having a compact/small gearing so I run out sooner. Part of that is resting. I guess that's what they mean about smoothing out a course? That run info is not good news, LOL. BTW, this not helping me stay away from the Whistler/CdA registration page. in fact, just the opposite. Edited by ChrisM 2013-09-06 5:58 PM |
| 2013-09-06 6:03 PM in reply to: ChrisM |
| Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN Originally posted by ChrisM I think I do. And I would guess I probably start coasting at 25 mph or so. Part of that is me being a wuss. Part of that is having a compact/small gearing so I run out sooner. Part of that is resting. I guess that's what they mean about smoothing out a course? That run info is not good news, LOL. BTW, this not helping me stay away from the Whistler/CdA registration page. in fact, just the opposite. Come do IMMT with Fred. We'll hook up a buzzer that gives you a shock when you apply less than 100w going less than 25mph. |
| 2013-09-06 6:15 PM in reply to: marcag |
| Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by ChrisM Come do IMMT with Fred. We'll hook up a buzzer that gives you a shock when you apply less than 100w going less than 25mph. I think I do. And I would guess I probably start coasting at 25 mph or so. Part of that is me being a wuss. Part of that is having a compact/small gearing so I run out sooner. Part of that is resting. I guess that's what they mean about smoothing out a course? That run info is not good news, LOL. BTW, this not helping me stay away from the Whistler/CdA registration page. in fact, just the opposite. dpends on where you are planning on putting the clips..... |
| 2013-09-06 6:26 PM in reply to: marcag |
Master 2912 ...at home in The ATL | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by ChrisM Come do IMMT with Fred. We'll hook up a buzzer that gives you a shock when you apply less than 100w going less than 25mph. I think I do. And I would guess I probably start coasting at 25 mph or so. Part of that is me being a wuss. Part of that is having a compact/small gearing so I run out sooner. Part of that is resting. I guess that's what they mean about smoothing out a course? That run info is not good news, LOL. BTW, this not helping me stay away from the Whistler/CdA registration page. in fact, just the opposite. I'll do better than that! I'll wait for you on the bike if you wait for me on the swim. Fred of course will have to wait for us both on the run. Then we can all skip across the finish line together. We do a lot of riding in the mountains, and this may be nibbling around the edges, but I have found that for AP, NP and VI to reflect the true effort and recovery of a ride on *real* climby courses (average +1000' over 10 miles) in the way that it does on a more "normal" profile, for me it is best to actually NOT include zeros for both power and cadence. Not suggesting thats what you should do on any triathlon course, but rather to illustrate the effect a lumpy course can have on the "usefulness" of those numbers for pacing. |
| 2013-09-06 6:30 PM in reply to: marcag |
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| 2013-09-06 6:31 PM in reply to: TankBoy |
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