Fred D Mentor Group - Part II (Page 85)
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Fred D - 2012-09-18 5:14 AM Lastly (I'm off to surgery soon), here are some pics of my old fit prior to David Greenfield in 2010, both of these bike splits (and runs) were good by my standards: You can see in the earlier pics that me head is way too high (not turtling), but I believe I do a better job of that on descents in general. My position can use some real improvement regardless, but I point out that those first 2 pics were top bike splits and weren't 'amazingly aero', ie; there needs to be a compromise about power and aero.
1) Are you operating or being operated on ? I hope the former !!! 2) The whole aero thing needs to be taken with a grain of salt. As per Damon from Cervelo 1cm = 2watts. Don't go nuts !!! 3) You lose power for many reasons, seat too high, too low......but especially by closing your hip angle which is the result of just slamming the front down. So you lose power and get little return. However for those seating way back, you can go lower in front without closing hip angle by rotating your entire body. Shorter cranks can also help. Seat up helps. But don't go nuts, as per #2. It's not worth it. Edited by marcag 2012-09-18 7:37 AM |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Hey, no fair reminding us that the engine is what matters most. There's no room for the truth, or reality, or any of that, in discussions of bike position. RTC - I think I got mine from someone who hated them. So yeah, highly individual, as many of these things are. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Loving all the feedback and thoughts on position, etc. and getting to see what each of us look like. I slammed the front end last night, and made a couple of other changes, but didn't have enough time to get in a good pic. I got a sloppy one of me with baggy shorts and shirt, but my first impression was I wasn't that much lower. I could flip the stem, but won't just yet. I'll post tonight for more feedback.. Thanks again Michael and Marc, lots of good info on my position, and general thoughts on others positions (although I get red X's for james photos, not sure why). I've always been afraid to mess with my position. The only thing I've done since I got fit last winter was to angle the extensions up, and that was because I found I was sliding forward too much. Other than that I haven't touched it. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() GoFaster - 2012-09-18 9:44 AM Loving all the feedback and thoughts on position, etc. and getting to see what each of us look like. I slammed the front end last night, and made a couple of other changes, but didn't have enough time to get in a good pic. I got a sloppy one of me with baggy shorts and shirt, but my first impression was I wasn't that much lower. I could flip the stem, but won't just yet. I'll post tonight for more feedback.. Thanks again Michael and Marc, lots of good info on my position, and general thoughts on others positions (although I get red X's for james photos, not sure why). I've always been afraid to mess with my position. The only thing I've done since I got fit last winter was to angle the extensions up, and that was because I found I was sliding forward too much. Other than that I haven't touched it.
Suggestion : you can slam the front, adjust this, adjust that......get all the angles and see if it's where you want to get. Then go back to your position. Then through the winter, every month, go down 1/2cm, 3/4cm, whatever. April rolls around, you have go used to it. No need to go drastically overnight. At one point doing your 2x20 on the trainer in February, you will know if it's right or wrong for you. I slowly moved down last year and I hit a point where I came up a bit and stuck there. |
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![]() Fred, I too prefer the non RTC on the FD. I love the fact that you can make the micro adjustments to avoid chain rub. I was on the trainer this morning for the first time in a while. It sucked. Downloaded trainer road though and I was impressed with the setup and ease of use. Definately well worth $10 a month if I continue to ride the trainer a few times a week (we're starting to lose sunlight here). I also need a bigger fan. All I had this morning was a dinky little tabletop fan in a 79 degree garage. I swear I was at 160 bpm during the cooldown portion of the workout. |
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![]() Also signed up for Honu 2013 yesterday. I'm going to put most of my eggs in that basket, and don't plan to race much other than that. Looking for a sub 5. It's going to require me to get serious about my diet/weight...something that hasn't really changed since entering the sport. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() tri808 - 2012-09-18 12:47 PM Also signed up for Honu 2013 yesterday. I'm going to put most of my eggs in that basket, and don't plan to race much other than that. Looking for a sub 5. It's going to require me to get serious about my diet/weight...something that hasn't really changed since entering the sport. I glanced at your race report from the last one. I'm not sure where you want to focus your time but I bet you could get that swim pace closer to a 1:30 with some work over the winter, putting you around 30 minutes. And considering the conditions almost have to be better than this year's race, you'll probably bike / run faster without changing much there. |
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![]() spudone - 2012-09-18 10:19 AM tri808 - 2012-09-18 12:47 PM Also signed up for Honu 2013 yesterday. I'm going to put most of my eggs in that basket, and don't plan to race much other than that. Looking for a sub 5. It's going to require me to get serious about my diet/weight...something that hasn't really changed since entering the sport. I glanced at your race report from the last one. I'm not sure where you want to focus your time but I bet you could get that swim pace closer to a 1:30 with some work over the winter, putting you around 30 minutes. And considering the conditions almost have to be better than this year's race, you'll probably bike / run faster without changing much there. Yeah...focus is going to be on the swim and weight loss this fall/winter. I've never been more than a 2-3x per week swimmer, and I wonder why I haven't made improvements like when I run 6x or bike 7x a week. I don't think I'll make huge gains in run or bike fitness, but I do plan to work on my position on the bike, and weight loss could help me a lot on the run. For the first 3 years, I have been complacent with my fitness gains and ignored my diet. Now that there is not as much low hanging fruit, time to put some emphasis on losing the extra 10-15 pounds. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() tri808 - 2012-09-18 2:08 PM spudone - 2012-09-18 10:19 AM tri808 - 2012-09-18 12:47 PM Also signed up for Honu 2013 yesterday. I'm going to put most of my eggs in that basket, and don't plan to race much other than that. Looking for a sub 5. It's going to require me to get serious about my diet/weight...something that hasn't really changed since entering the sport. I glanced at your race report from the last one. I'm not sure where you want to focus your time but I bet you could get that swim pace closer to a 1:30 with some work over the winter, putting you around 30 minutes. And considering the conditions almost have to be better than this year's race, you'll probably bike / run faster without changing much there. Yeah...focus is going to be on the swim and weight loss this fall/winter. I've never been more than a 2-3x per week swimmer, and I wonder why I haven't made improvements like when I run 6x or bike 7x a week. I don't think I'll make huge gains in run or bike fitness, but I do plan to work on my position on the bike, and weight loss could help me a lot on the run. For the first 3 years, I have been complacent with my fitness gains and ignored my diet. Now that there is not as much low hanging fruit, time to put some emphasis on losing the extra 10-15 pounds. Also curious - what were you wearing for the swim? I assume it's not wetsuit legal. Speed suit might save you a couple seconds per 100. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() tri808 - 2012-09-18 6:08 PM spudone - 2012-09-18 10:19 AM tri808 - 2012-09-18 12:47 PM Also signed up for Honu 2013 yesterday. I'm going to put most of my eggs in that basket, and don't plan to race much other than that. Looking for a sub 5. It's going to require me to get serious about my diet/weight...something that hasn't really changed since entering the sport. I glanced at your race report from the last one. I'm not sure where you want to focus your time but I bet you could get that swim pace closer to a 1:30 with some work over the winter, putting you around 30 minutes. And considering the conditions almost have to be better than this year's race, you'll probably bike / run faster without changing much there. Yeah...focus is going to be on the swim and weight loss this fall/winter. I've never been more than a 2-3x per week swimmer, and I wonder why I haven't made improvements like when I run 6x or bike 7x a week. I don't think I'll make huge gains in run or bike fitness, but I do plan to work on my position on the bike, and weight loss could help me a lot on the run. For the first 3 years, I have been complacent with my fitness gains and ignored my diet. Now that there is not as much low hanging fruit, time to put some emphasis on losing the extra 10-15 pounds. No need to give guys like me a 10 min head start out of the water! I just read your RR too, I love this line "Was I scared...hell yeah, but I didn't bust my butt all year just to race like a pu$$y." (I put the $$ in there to get by the filter...) Reading that makes me want to do the race now.... it's on my list for sure. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() and I just noticed my wife just changed her Facebook profile picture to a shot of us on the beach in Polulu. Le sigh..... |
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![]() This user's post has been ignored. Edited by Fred D 2012-09-18 6:04 PM |
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![]() Fred D - 2012-09-18 1:02 PM tri808 - 2012-09-18 3:47 PM . You can definitely break 5 at Hono. No doubt. You need to work on your limiters, which include diet, run and swim. To do this you will probably need to bike less as its your strength. Can be done.Also signed up for Honu 2013 yesterday. I'm going to put most of my eggs in that basket, and don't plan to race much other than that. Looking for a sub 5. It's going to require me to get serious about my diet/weight...something that hasn't really changed since entering the sport. I actually only biked 3x per week during HIM training. All my focus was on the run...I was doing that 6x, swim 3x. Looking back, I trained a lot of volume, but I didn't have a lot of purpose or intensity in my runs and swims. Sort of just going through the motions. Next year my approach is to do 4x bike, but roughly same amount of hours. This year was two weekday rides of about 90-120 minutes. Next year will be 3 weekday rides of 60-90 minutes. Going to cut back to 4-5 runs (a couple more tempo runs rather than all Z1/2), and 3-4 swims with real intensity. Same total amount of workouts, roughly the same amount of training time, but the training load will be slightly higher due to intensity. At least that's the plan for now...these things always seem to change for me. Interesting discussions on TT about the value of coaching. I suppose I would be a good candidate, but I likely can't afford one, and like some others, I enjoy the process of trying to figure it out myself. |
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Expert![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Hey Jason, I used Elaine (ratherbeswimming) for coaching for my Olympic. She's super reasonable and I was in the best shape of my (short) career before my wreck canceled my season. The best thing I found with a coach is they know when to "ratchet up" your intensity/distance as I progresses. Something that was lacking in the "one size fits all" plans. Also, I'd second the recommendation about a swim skin for added speed at Honu. I had a good friend take 2nd in Men's 60-64 this year and qualified for Vegas, he gave credit to his TYR Torque suit. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Interesting discussions on TT about the value of coaching. I suppose I would be a good candidate, but I likely can't afford one, and like some others, I enjoy the process of trying to figure it out myself. I think I do a pretty good job of self coaching and I don't need to work out with others for motivation. But I signed up with a coach for next year because I think I'll benefit from someone keeping me in check as I recover from my PE. Plus he's local and he's also signed up for Tahoe himself, so it's a really good fit. |
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Extreme Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() tri808 - 2012-09-18 6:17 PM Interesting discussions on TT about the value of coaching. I suppose I would be a good candidate, but I likely can't afford one, and like some others, I enjoy the process of trying to figure it out myself. Coaching is great with the right coach and as you progress as an athlete finding a coach becomes harder and harder. I would bet you would be more challenged to find the right coach given your experience. There are many coaches that can coach a beginner. There are very few coaches that could produce a world champion. And there is everything in between. A buddy asked me to coach him. He is a newbie. I have no doubt I can help him a lot. And I totally overcharged him. A case of beer a month. Edited by marcag 2012-09-18 6:54 PM |
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Elite![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Okay. Here's me with the front dropped all the way. The second one is of me conciously turtling my neck just as an after thought - don't know that I could ride like that.
(New Side.JPG) (Turtle.JPG) Attachments ---------------- New Side.JPG (59KB - 3 downloads) Turtle.JPG (53KB - 1 downloads) |
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![]() Neil, the second picture looks like you're trying too hard to turtle. You want to keep the curvature in your back like the first picture. Start in your standard position, then look straight down at the ground, as if you want your chin to touch your chest. This should set your neck in a turtled position. The key now is to try and lift your chin and your eyes, without moving your neck too much. You should feel like you are trying to create skin folds there. You can also help by rotating your shoulder blades inward towards your spine. It's definately not too comfortable, but it shouldn't impact your back...you should feel it in your shoulders and neck. Again, this is most effective when going at higher speeds or into the wind when aerodynamics matter more. Not something you shoot to hold the entire race |
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Extreme Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Someone was talking about skinsuits ? For those who have seen my strava, I always swim that same 1.8km open swim up at the cottage, over and over. I know most of the fish by name. The Tyr Torque is very consistently 2seconds/100m faster than a speedo. I am sure the speedo is fatser than a tri suit/shorts, so I would say it gives 3 seconds/100 in a race. |
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Expert![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() TSimone - 2012-09-19 6:42 AM Dear Abby, I'm an amateur triathlete who has had 1 workout in 10 days. I want to workout but my rear is dragging. Is this just a matter of HTFU at this point? I've walked a little but my Speedo and bike are showing signs of separation anxiety. Sincerely, Couching it in Columbus I am in the same boat although have done a few workouts, albeit mostly EZ. I think it is a good thing to take some time away and get rejuvenated although it is hard to do. Mentally, I just do not have the drive right now to get anything done. On the other hand, I do not have a race I really care about for another 7 months...so if you are going to drag...now is the time to do it I jumped on the scale yesterday....bad idea LOL. |
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Extreme Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() On the topic of running.... This guy http://t.co/hXbVSRNqis an old running buddy of my father. My Dad was a decent runner (2:45 at Boston at 55 years old) but he always ran against Ed. This guy never used a GPS, HRM or any other gadget. They used to run 100+ miles per week. week after week after week. They used to end their run, take their pulse and if they were 75% of 220-age, they were happy. In January he told me "you guys worry too much about your gadgets". Just go out and run. |
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