SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN (Page 86)

I have it.  I did not get a ton from it - truth be told I seem to have a very hard time getting the catch to work well for me.  I really feel like I need someone to say, you need to do "x", or stop doing "y".  Otherwise, I'm just second guessing myself all the time.

I'd like to get my swim into the lower-mid 30's for HIM (:37 at the last one), but I don't know how to get there.  Like I said earlier, I don't think I can do either Masters or Coaching at the moment, but I looked at my logs from this year.  I've put in 240,000 meters YTD, and was swimming an average of 4 times per week.  That time and effort added up to a whole lot of nothing in terms of improved speed this year.  I basically finished all my races in relatively the same placing as I did last year, and my times didn't get any faster in the pool = frustrated. [/whining]

I read this and the total immersion book (forget the name) at about the same time last fall.  Talk about confusing one's muscles...

The catch focus in Swim Speed Secrets really did help me with both the catch (so, like in all things, YMMV) and keeping a higher elbow, as I'd been kind of deep windmilling (if that makes any sense) previously.  Some of that was from the TI book, where I overdid the glide and deep stroke.

So, I ended up in the middle, applying a bit of each.  Catch and high elbow was largely due to Taormino (Taormina? whatever), and swimming "tall" and reaaaaalllly reaching seemed to click after the TI stuff, although I don't glide (closest I come is extending at the end of my stroke - which helps me remember to rotate).  My cadence is a bit slow compared to what I read is ideal (when I try 40-50 I feel like a paddleboat), but works OK for me.  Feels like it's OK as long as you're always working (if I glide, I go waaaay slower - but I don't have high stroke rate).

The underwater camera thing is amazing.  Had the whole family at the pool and kids have a waterproof camera that takes grainy vids.  My hips and legs were frighteningly low, so I've focused on both arching my back to get my butt high and swimming with my head/chest "down" into the water.  Seems to have helped.

So, I've actually found SSS and TI helpful, as well as the underwater vids.  I still have a "frankenstroke," as I've never had lessons (OK, I had one free "evaluation" that had me change my stroke and blew up my shoulder - out of the water last winter for a couple months and needed a cortisone shot) and have tried to learn on my own.  For me, then, these books have been good resources.

The thing I'm trying to figure out now is rotating and how far to rotate each stroke (45 degrees?  90?  71.2394???).  This eludes me, but will be a winter focus.  Oh, that and how to swim in a pool again when the pond freezes over! 

My tuppence only...

Matt

Fred, I seem to recall you were doing the Finding Freestyle program last year (?).  What was your experience with that?

That's actually a pretty good IM volume IMO, maybe 4-6K low per month, but that's two additional workouts.  And the 40K buildn in Feb and March should have carried over.  I would think that in this case, personalized coaching would be better to address any specific issues, as another 4K proobably is not going to get you sub 1:00, if just going by volume, probably need another 10K per month, and that seems like a bad ROI.  But there may be a technique issue to address that could save some time. 

You're sort of in a grey area.  Good enough (actually very good) to go close to 1, but not good enough to go close to 55 without massive volume.  I am the same, BTW.

Coming from L.A..   My breakdown:

Flights - Draw.  Vancouver and Spokane about 2.5-3 hours, about $300-350.

Transport to race - Slight advantage to CdA, 40 minutes Spokane to CdA, Whistler about 2 hours from YVR.  Don't know about Spokane, but Whistler gets major scenic bonus points on teh Sea to Sky

Lodging - Whistler.  Just looking at available lodging, CdA seems to jack up prices, I can get a room at the Chateau Whistler Fairmont for not much more than a Hampton Inn in CdA that weekend.

Convenience/Hassle factor - Whistler.  Absolutely no need for a car in Whistler, all administrative/bike drop offs are within walking/short riding distances.   Little things make a difference, like going back to the expo to buy something you forgot, or going back to a midnight finish line after a shower and a meal.   As noted, Whistler needs a passport and data/phone issues, but not a big deal. 

Weather - I think both are crapshoots, although CdA has I think a greater chance of it being cold.  Both can be in teh 90s on race day I guess.  Whistler water is consistently warmer

Money  - Draw.  Both take American dollars (change in Canadian though).  Par exchange more or less right now.

Course - No idea on CdA but Whistler is as advertised gorgeous, but it is not fast and probably won't PR. 

Right now, if I do one in '14, likely Whistler

Any idea what sort of volume that increase would be on the last one? Some times are starting to look feasible after that recent open water race, but holding off until actually doing it in a HIM.

For someone who didn't grow up in a pool to achieve 55 mins would need to have a really good stroke and a ton (technical swim term) of volume over some time to pull it off.  At least to be able to do it at IM effort and not wreck yourself for the rest of the race.  55 mins is right around what I can do with 2 of the 3 requirements (growing up in a pool and a good stroke).  A bunch of volume might let me get down to the low 50s.

Having a pack of 10 guys drag you along helps too.  That's what got me 54 mins at IMMT.  

Meh...I swam 45 minutes my first year...at Honu.   

I just read through that thread on ST about the temps in Tahoe...stay warm!!!

I did CDA in 2009 and stayed at a Super 8 a couple miles from the lake.  Very easy drive on race morning, although I understand your points in your post above about not needing a car at Whistler.  Anyway, if you do decide on CDA be sure to call the Super 8 that is just a couple miles from the venue.  At least when I did it they had no minimum nights requirement and the nightly rate was incredibly reasonable considering an IM race was in town.  Maybe they have changed their policy since then but its worth checking out.

As a venue, CDA was nice...surrounded by mountains and a nice lake.  But it was just....nice...not spectacular.  The venue didn't "grab" me like Penticton did a few years ago or like Mont-Tremblant has done recently.  I never had a desire to go back to CDA but wouldn't discourage someone from racing there.  Whistler seems a lot more interesting....

you did a 1:31/100 M at big shoulders 2500M.   55 would be a 1:27/100 M but over 3800M.  Doesn't seem like a lot, but at that speed, getting 4 seconds consistently takes a lot of work.  1:00 is a 1:35/100M or 1:25/100Y.  That's what I swam at Canada, and did not exert too much.  the problem is the exertion required IMO to get that 4 seconds per 100 unless you get a really good draft burns a lot of matches early in the day.

I really don't know what kind of volume would be required.  As Arend mentioned, long time swimmers can show up and bang out an hour easy, get to 55 with decent volume, and 52 with lots.  I am not one of those to am dependent 100% volume.  I swim 3X week for maybe 10-11K and never get much faster than :30 HIM and 1:00 IM.  I'd probably have to go to 15K a week to get any speed.  And even then probably not 5 minutes for the IM

One forecast has snow over 8K feet.  there are some good tips though, including putting a SN/transition bag down the front of the jersey at the start.  And starting with dry clothes.  I did that at Canada as starting temps were forecasted at hi 40s.

Ok, thanks. Thought it might be a difficult one to answer. Fortunately there are some at masters who could do that, so can keep track of how I do with them during the sets. Coach had a 1:11:xx in the 5k of the same event (for 1:26/100M) and I have a ways to go before matching her in the workouts!

On the flip side, yesterday I put in an order for the new Desoto Palm coolers.  I figure it wouldn't hurt to try them and I could easily just stuff them in my jersey pocket if I got sick of them.  The extra sun coverage might be nice as well.

I'm trying to imagine what I'm going to look like on race day.  If I ever got a pair of long compression socks I think I might only have about 5% of my skin exposed.  Triathletes I tell you...what a bunch of dorks.

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by Fred D

Originally posted by ChrisMFred - what kind of yardage are you getting those times in? 

. Just looked at 2010 where I swam 65' at LP. Averaged 23-26K yards from April, may June before the July race. Was more like 40K in February and March as I think I had a running injury.

That's actually a pretty good IM volume IMO, maybe 4-6K low per month, but that's two additional workouts.  And the 40K buildn in Feb and March should have carried over.  I would think that in this case, personalized coaching would be better to address any specific issues, as another 4K proobably is not going to get you sub 1:00, if just going by volume, probably need another 10K per month, and that seems like a bad ROI.  But there may be a technique issue to address that could save some time. 

You're sort of in a grey area.  Good enough (actually very good) to go close to 1, but not good enough to go close to 55 without massive volume.  I am the same, BTW.

Any idea what sort of volume that increase would be on the last one? Some times are starting to look feasible after that recent open water race, but holding off until actually doing it in a HIM.

For someone who didn't grow up in a pool to achieve 55 mins would need to have a really good stroke and a ton (technical swim term) of volume over some time to pull it off.  At least to be able to do it at IM effort and not wreck yourself for the rest of the race.  55 mins is right around what I can do with 2 of the 3 requirements (growing up in a pool and a good stroke).  A bunch of volume might let me get down to the low 50s.

Having a pack of 10 guys drag you along helps too.  That's what got me 54 mins at IMMT.  

Thanks. But metric or imperial ton?

that would be a metric ton if you swim meters and an imperial ton if in a yards pool.

Duh.

No matter what you do, you won't be even close to being the dorkiest one in Kona.

Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by Fred D

Originally posted by ChrisMFred - what kind of yardage are you getting those times in? 

. Just looked at 2010 where I swam 65' at LP. Averaged 23-26K yards from April, may June before the July race. Was more like 40K in February and March as I think I had a running injury.

That's actually a pretty good IM volume IMO, maybe 4-6K low per month, but that's two additional workouts.  And the 40K buildn in Feb and March should have carried over.  I would think that in this case, personalized coaching would be better to address any specific issues, as another 4K proobably is not going to get you sub 1:00, if just going by volume, probably need another 10K per month, and that seems like a bad ROI.  But there may be a technique issue to address that could save some time. 

You're sort of in a grey area.  Good enough (actually very good) to go close to 1, but not good enough to go close to 55 without massive volume.  I am the same, BTW.

Any idea what sort of volume that increase would be on the last one? Some times are starting to look feasible after that recent open water race, but holding off until actually doing it in a HIM.

For someone who didn't grow up in a pool to achieve 55 mins would need to have a really good stroke and a ton (technical swim term) of volume over some time to pull it off.  At least to be able to do it at IM effort and not wreck yourself for the rest of the race.  55 mins is right around what I can do with 2 of the 3 requirements (growing up in a pool and a good stroke).  A bunch of volume might let me get down to the low 50s.

Having a pack of 10 guys drag you along helps too.  That's what got me 54 mins at IMMT.  

Thanks. But metric or imperial ton?

that would be a metric ton if you swim meters and an imperial ton if in a yards pool.

Duh.

One of the pools we use switches back & forth. Hmmm ...

 I used cool wings at a Lake Mead/ vegas race a couple seasons ago during a severe heat warning.  Water from every aid station and just dumped on the arms.  Worked well.  W alking down to the lake after, there was just the slightest breeze, it was 90+ and my arms were actually cold.  I also have the white cooler beanie

Trust me, I've penciled that out more than a few times, including just now...  Unless my wife and I were going to make an east coast vacation out of it, too tough to swing for a long weekend (and I've promised my wife she gets to choose the next vacation, even Whistler might be pushing that issue).  IMMT is two full days of travel each way, with the time change, and just at the hotels I am looking at nearby, flights and foundation slot, it's 2X the cost of Whistler....  It would be so much fun to go out and do it, but just doesn't look to be in the cards.

The good thing is someone asked my wife last night if she'd go back to B.C., and she immediately said "in an instant." 

As long as the build up to 40K is smart, seems like a reasonable and easily achievable goal with your background.

But tape 20 extra gels to your bike, just in case it's close...