General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Increasing power threshold over the winter Rss Feed  
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2008-01-29 8:02 AM
in reply to: #1097826

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Coach
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Boston, MA
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
Last Saturday I did a 2x10 min session @ 96% of FTP (with 1 min spin as recovery) and the legs felt great and I could have easily done another 10 min set. But I keep building up slowly to gauge how much is too much (for now) as I am still in the last two weeks of my running cycle. Still I am planning to keep increasing the length of the sets and by the time I am done with the run focus I can start hitting two intense FT session worth of 30-40 min @ FTP each

This evening I am shooting for either a 3x10 min or a 2x15 min @ FTP but I'll decide once I am on the trainer It is amazing to me that within a few weeks of FT sessions I am already feeling my 2007 cycling fitness coming back; granted I am still a good 4-6 weeks away to get back in 100% back, but it is encouraging for sure. Who else is hitting the FT sessions and noticing improvements?



2008-01-29 8:42 AM
in reply to: #1181186

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Not a Coach
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Media, PA
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter

Today was 3 x 15' (3') for me!  After only 3 weeks, I would guess my FTP is already inching back up towards last season's level--not there yet though.  As a bonus, my weight is also inching back down. 

Hoping to keep those two trends working for the next several weeks still!  More pain fun! 

2008-01-29 9:31 AM
in reply to: #1097826

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Champion
19812
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MA
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
I just started doing harder work on the trainer last week; long ramp then my coach set my power goals in the short term...did 2x15' in a goal range of 10 watt below my FTP to my FTP last week and yesterday 3x10'. Last week it was hard, yesterday felt so much easier. It is fun to watch our bodies adapt to the work we do. I've been doing different cadences in the goal watt range and it interesting how different it feels at 72 RPM vs 92.
2008-01-29 5:54 PM
in reply to: #1097826

Champion
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Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter

I did 5 x 10 @ 245 watts average the other day with 3-4 mins rest in between each.  Those are above my FTP of 220 watts per my last test so I think I may see some improvement on my next test.  I'm not sure when that will be, but I'm going to try the 20 minute and 5 minute efforts when I do, since I've never done that one.  My last FTP was a 2 x 20 minute effort as per Carmichael Training Systems and the averages came out to within 5 watts of each other.

 

2008-01-30 11:03 AM
in reply to: #1097826

Master
1728
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portland, or
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
Last night was my second FTP session of this phase. ~20 minute commute home on my fixed gear, then on trainer/tri bike for:

5' easy
3x30" >300 watts / 30" easy
2' easy
10' @ 240-245 (95% of FTP)
2' easy
15' @ 240-245
2' easy
10' @ 240-245
6' c/d

Session went well. Middle set was 5' longer then last week, and rest intervals were 3' shorter. Average power was 95% vs 90% last week.

scott
2008-01-30 12:51 PM
in reply to: #1097826

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Expert
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Ontario, Canada
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter

I did another 20min TT yesterday since I screwed up 2wks ago on my first ever TT when I went out too fast -  

Jan 29, 08 - Avg Watts = 140.  Weight = 113.  FTP = 95% x 140 = 133. Power to weight = 2.6. Avg kph = 29.1. Avg HR = 155 (max 161).

Jan 12, 08 - Avg Watts = 134. Weight = 113. FTP = 95% x 134 = 127. Power to weight = 2.5. Avg kph = 28.6. Avg HR = 153 (max 161).

I've not done any FTP sessions yet.  The FTP improvement of almost 5% is mostly due to proper pacing this time.  I'm happy with 5% FTP improvement, but a little disappointed that it translated to only 0.5kph.  FTP sessions will start next week.

When you're doing the TT or FTP sessions, should you be staying aero, or does it matter?  I tried to ride as hard as possible, and that means mostly in road, and not aero, position, sometimes even changing to harder gears and standing.  Is that the correct way for TT tests?  



2008-01-30 1:03 PM
in reply to: #1184094

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Coach
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Boston, MA
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
patricia7 - 2008-01-30 12:51 PM

I did another 20min TT yesterday since I screwed up 2wks ago on my first ever TT when I went out too fast -  

Jan 29, 08 - Avg Watts = 140.  Weight = 113.  FTP = 95% x 140 = 133. Power to weight = 2.6. Avg kph = 29.1. Avg HR = 155 (max 161).

Jan 12, 08 - Avg Watts = 134. Weight = 113. FTP = 95% x 134 = 127. Power to weight = 2.5. Avg kph = 28.6. Avg HR = 153 (max 161).

I've not done any FTP sessions yet.  The FTP improvement of almost 5% is mostly due to proper pacing this time.  I'm happy with 5% FTP improvement, but a little disappointed that it translated to only 0.5kph.  FTP sessions will start next week.

When you're doing the TT or FTP sessions, should you be staying aero, or does it matter?  I tried to ride as hard as possible, and that means mostly in road, and not aero, position, sometimes even changing to harder gears and standing.  Is that the correct way for TT tests?  

good job with the tes! quick Q, did you do the test outside or on the trainer?
2008-01-30 1:09 PM
in reply to: #1184129

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Expert
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Ontario, Canada
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
On Computrainer and same flat course both times.
2008-01-30 1:23 PM
in reply to: #1097826

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Coach
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Boston, MA
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
in that case, don't worry much about speed. Focus on watts, your speed will most likley be different (faster) when riding outdoors!
2008-01-31 10:40 AM
in reply to: #1097826

Champion
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Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter

OK, in the middle of my trainer ride today I got in my 5 minute maximum power effort.  The plan is to do the 20 minute test tomorrow and then do the calculations.  I'm hoping to do this once per month or so for the next several months and follow the numbers.  Here are my figures from today's test, via the Ergomo power meter:

Avg watts: 296
Max watts: 341
Avg HR: 147
Max HR: 159
Avg RPM: 101
Max RPM: 107

 

2008-02-01 7:03 PM
in reply to: #1097826

Champion
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Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter

And today I got in my 20 minute time trial.  Believe me, I left nothing in reserve, this was the hardest I've pushed myself in some time.  My figures look like:

5 minute test
Avg watts: 296
Max watts: 341
Avg HR: 147
Max HR: 159
Avg RPM: 101
Max RPM: 107

20 minute test
Avg watts: 248
Max watts: 291
Avg HR: 150
Max HR: 162
Avg RPM: 103
Max RPM: 112

Based on the formula Jorge posted, I come up with 232 watts for my Critical Power.  That appears to be an increase from my test in early December where I calculated 220 watts, so I'm seeing some gains over the past 2 months.  I would like to see 240 watts by the time I start riding outdoors a lot, and thinking maybe I can push that amount at the Mooseman Oly in June.

 



Edited by max 2008-02-01 7:04 PM


2008-02-01 7:56 PM
in reply to: #1190378

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Not a Coach
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Media, PA
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
Nice work Max!  Looks like your on your way for the Moose. 
2008-02-02 12:13 PM
in reply to: #1097826

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Coach
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Boston, MA
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter

Max, that's awesome indeed

I did a FT session on Tuesday (3x8:30 min @ 96% of FT) but legs were pretty tired to do more. Today I did a FT/tempo session mainly because I have a 10K race as a test tomorrow and I didn't want to cook my legs too much. I did: 2x 12:30min @ 96% of FT with 1 min spin as recovery, + 20 min @ 80% of FT
---
Entire workout #s: 1:00 hr, (215 watts avg), Work: 773 kJ, TSS: 73.9 (IF 0.858), NP: 223, VI: 1.04, 93 rpm

Legs are feeling good and continue to feel how the cycling legs are coming back each session at a time

2008-02-05 11:01 AM
in reply to: #1097826

Champion
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No excuses!
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter

First test a couple of months ago

20 min avg 242  weight  208

today

20 min avg 264  weight 205

Would have been better but went out way to hard and spent the next 15 min watching my avg slip from 280's to mid 260's Frown

Can someone do the math for me on what my FTP is Undecided

2008-02-05 11:58 AM
in reply to: #1097826

Champion
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No excuses!
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter

Looking back through this thread, Jorge says take 20 min avg x .95

So a couple of months ago I was 230 and now I am 250.8 if my math is correct Undecided

2008-02-05 1:42 PM
in reply to: #1195395

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Coach
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Boston, MA
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
Shermbelle - 2008-02-05 11:58 AM

Looking back through this thread, Jorge says take 20 min avg x .95

So a couple of months ago I was 230 and now I am 250.8 if my math is correct Undecided

Yes I would say is around 251-255 watts, which is a great improvement since the last time we tested   Still you, have the 5 min power test schedule for Friday inserted at the beginning of your tempo session. (If I remember correctly) Push hard so we can get a solid number and then we'll be able to better estimate your critical power and measure how much you have improved and how to tackle the next 6 week cycle. We only have 18-19 weeks until CdA hence we only have like 6-8 weeks to try to get that power up another 5-10% before we focus 100% on the endurance part



2008-02-05 6:18 PM
in reply to: #1097826

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Not a Coach
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Media, PA
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
Did another 2 x 20' (2') test this morning.  A month ago I was at 290w.  Now up to 303w.  Closing the gap on the 310-312 I peaked at last season.  Also down near 86kg, so w/kg up to 3.5 now.  Still working on moving both parts of the equation in my favor. 
2008-02-06 2:04 PM
in reply to: #1097826

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Veteran
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NW suburbs of Chicago
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
Nice work guys. It's encouraging to see the amount of improvement made in such a short time. Soon, we'll all be strong enough to do this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XHl-WrefNE

I just did my FTP test last weekend and started by cycling focused training block. Hope to make similar gains as you guys have.

Edited by stinkyhelmet 2008-02-06 2:06 PM
2008-02-07 7:30 PM
in reply to: #1097826

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Coach
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Boston, MA
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
another FT session this evening. I did 2x15 min @ 98% of FT with 1 min rest. it was a bit challenging cuz my legs were still a bit banged up from a 10K a raced on Sunday but all in all feeling good.
2008-02-09 1:33 PM
in reply to: #1097826

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Orangeville, Ontario
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
amiine - 2007-12-12 1:15 PM

Just checking who are the BTers training with a power meter (or considering it) who will be or are working towards increasing their power threshold and kick butt next season.

I want to set a list so we can exchange training sessions, other info, encourage each other, etc.

anyone? anyone? Bueller? Bueller... 

 



I've been training/racing with PM for the last two years. I don't know how I biked without it.
Training with the PM has helped me break the 1 hour barrier for the 40kmTT and PB's in most of my Tri's last year. A great tool.

Geoff
2008-02-11 1:01 AM
in reply to: #1097826

Champion
9430
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No excuses!
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
Did my 5 min power test tonight and last time I believe was 300 and this time was 321. I was hoping for more but it is what it is. Guess I have to bust my a$$ harder Yell


2008-02-13 12:33 PM
in reply to: #1097826

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Coach
10487
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Boston, MA
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
Is anyone training? I had to rescue this from page 3! Anyway, last Sat did another 3x10 FT session with 1 min rest and it went very well. Tonight I am going for 4x10 min and by the weekend 2x20 min. I’ll then keep doing the same session (2x20min @ FT) for 4-5 weeks 2 times a week (plus other sessions) before I test again.  

For those using cycling peaks I figured I’ll post some of the graphs I use to track my training and improvement so you guys can do the same. I am also working on a training log post for my blog which touches quite a bit on training cycles which is important to know because based on that we can make better choices for our plans and manage our training better in hopes to improve faster. I’ll post that when it is ready

2008-02-13 12:38 PM
in reply to: #1097826

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Master
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, Minnesota
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
I'm still at it. January was swim focus month, so I had no bike test prescribed. Feb is bike focus month so I'm sure I'll have a test in early March to see if I'm progressing.

Thx for the bump.
2008-02-13 12:43 PM
in reply to: #1209734

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Not a Coach
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Media, PA
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter

Did 2 x 20' again yesterday (though 5' rest instead of the 2' during my test last week ).  Due to a weather-induced scheduling change, I was back on the bike again this morning and wasn't up for another 2 x20'.  So I went for 60' at ~90% or so. 

I finally upgraded to WKO+ and am just now starting to play around with the charts, etc. now that I have a reasonable amount of data to use.

2008-02-13 2:27 PM
in reply to: #1209734

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Extreme Veteran
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Davidson, NC
Subject: RE: Increasing power threshold over the winter
I've been on a steady diet of 2x20m @ ~100% FTP, give or take a couple of watts, twice a week for the last four weeks or so for 85-100 TSS.  Saturday is around 3 hours with 4x 20m @ 80-85% FTP and I'm beginning to replace one of the 20m with a 40m interval. CTL has settled to around 48 it seems and I don't expect it to change all that much without adding more intensity on the weekends as I don't see my volume picking up until I can ride outside more.
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