Fred D's triathlon training group CLOSED (Page 90)

I told her she had no business doing a marathon that took 9 hours and should start of with more reasonable ambitions, and shorter goal distances.

Elitist.

Is that an elitist, or just simple douche-baggery? I sometimes get the two confused....

It's a subtle distinction.  If your username is GoFaster, elitist, obviously.  If you're some schlub that hasn't broken 2hr in a HM, douche-baggery.

Hey all,

Got a swim in tonight and noticed that my kick really sucks! I've always know it was bad but today I tried 100m making a conscious effort to reduce my kick and I ended up going about 3secs faster!

Not sure if I should make an effort to improve my kick or just learn a 2 beat kick.

Hey all,

Got a swim in tonight and noticed that my kick really sucks! I've always know it was bad but today I tried 100m making a conscious effort to reduce my kick and I ended up going about 3secs faster!

Not sure if I should make an effort to improve my kick or just learn a 2 beat kick.

So a sub 2-hour half marathon moves you from a douchebag to an elitist? Awesome. I'm an elitiest. And it feels good.

I'm of two minds of a kick.  My kick generally sucks, and I only kick when swimming really for balance, not proulsion.  In kick sets it's taken me quite a while to appreciate them, but they are really good core work.

For pure swimmers, yeah, learn to kick properly.  For triathletes, who generally are also in a wetsuit, it's way down on my personal list of swim elements to master.

Ok, so I don't even know if their is a question in here, but just looking for thoughts from smart people. Here is the deal.

i have Lake Placid coming up in 2 weeks. I was diagnosed with a pinched meniscus (interior, right knee) probably about 7 weeks ago. Zero running for 5 weeks, and limited running (20 minutes per day, tops) for the past two weeks. It has not affected my swimming or cycling. Knee is better, but the inflammation definitely comes and goes. PT twice a week with one of the best sport docs in the region. At this time we don't think there is any tearing, but the worry is that by running on it while inflamed it may begin to fray the edges (if it has not already). I have not yet had an MRI as I would not want to do anything surgical until after LP anyway even if I didn't race, and would just have to have it re-scanned at that time anyway.

So, a few weeks ago i had a non-decision to make - I was pretty well resigned to swimming and biking and then DNF and cheer leading for my wife and friends. However the knee has responded better than expected, but still obviously injured. I am now simply managing it and could probably run the entirety of the marathon, but not nearly the run I hoped to have, and will likely suffer a much longer recovery for it. I think my fitness is very good at the moment even though I do not have nearly the time on my feet that I would like.

This race is sort of a tweener for me - my plan was to do IMLP three years in a row with the goal of seeing how fast I could go in year three. Next year (year three) I will be on sabbatical from work from December '12 through August '13 and thus will have 8 solid months to focus on LP. I have Bone Island half in January and Leadman in April. Obviously I would like to get healthy as quickly as possible. At the moment the tentative plan is to run, but will not commit until my last PT next week. So I guess I am just looking for a little perspective. Is there something obvious that I should be thinking about that I may be missing, or questions that I should be asking that are not immediately apparent to me?

Bryan, thanks in advance for any advice you might be able to offer, and if you do have thoughts on my course of action let me know if I can share them with the group?

All the best,

Let me see if I can answer your question as if it was a decision I was making for myself. I never do an Ironman without a specific goal. In my case, I only do IM's to earn Kona slots. That's it, no other reason. Other folks have time goals, where they want to improve their performance, while others more simply like doing the race in as many different locations as possible. Not me, for me it's simply a means to an end. If I had incurred the injury you did and was forced to take a prolonged break from run training in the weeks leading into a planned Ironman, I would have long ago bagged the race and would have reset my plan. I would rather eat the cost of entry, convalesce, and select another race down the road to show up healthy to. Based on what you said, simply finishing another IMLP is of little value as you have done it already. Finishing it with an improved performance, which appears to be your primary goal, is also out of the question at this point. But you already have a plan in place where you can work back from the injury, improve your running during the fall/winter, and build towards an IMLP 2013 hopefully in far better condition. Racing their race in a few weeks isn't going to improve your fitness. It's going to put you in a hole potentially that may take some time to emerge from. That's the cost, so what is the benefit? That's what you need to ask yourself. All of the training you have done to prepare for this race has improved your overall fitness and that's a VERY good thing. Racing is just validating the work, but you know you have done the work. If you do decide to do the race, then not doing the run sounds like the smartest idea. I understand your wife and friends are racing so you will be there anyway and could get some good training out of it. If you do decide to run, I would suggest a very aggressive run/walk strategy where at a minimum you walk the entire length of every aid station and still play it by ear and not be afraid to walk off the course. And for sure, if you think this has value, please feel free to share it with the group.

Thanks Bryan, that has tremendous value. You have pretty much described where my brain is at the moment. I guess what makes it tough is that I do not have a "fixed" goal like KQ or even AG this year to point to as a decision point. My primary goal for this year was to just nick in under 11 hours on this particular course. But there is nothing really magic about 11 hours though other than a gauge of progress from last year with an eye toward next.

This bit is REALLY key: 

That is the discussion that I need to have with my doctor and coach this week. At the moment I am definitely planning on the swim and bike (there are obvious benchmarks to be gained by doing so), but for the run I just have to do the cost/benefit analysis based on my goals for next year, taking into account both the physical and mental impacts of the decision. Seems pretty straight forward when you put it like that.

Thanks again, Bryan.

Oh, and one other thing. This morning I woke up and the knee actually felt 100% for the first time in 7 weeks. Go figure. Do your PMs have special healing powers?

I sense you have a high Midichlorine count and the Force is with you.

So a sub 2-hour half marathon moves you from a doucebag to an elitist? Awesome. I'm an elitiest. And it feels good.

Woot.

Wow, imagine what a sub 2:00 HIM run makes you......

Congrats!

But surely you've started obssessively checking weather.com?   newbie

My general thoughts on that is that the 2 beat kick is a great tool to minimize kick for those that can't do it well (due to lack of form, inflexibility, strength). In my opinion:

If you want to keep swimming long-term, you should learn a proper kick.

If you think your interest in swimming will fizzle out in a year or two, then stick with the 2-beat.

Congrats!

But surely you've started obssessively checking weather.com?   newbie

It's a subtle distinction.  If your username is GoFaster, elitist, obviously.  If you're some schlub that hasn't broken 2hr in a HM, douche-baggery.