Fred D's triathlon training group CLOSED (Page 90)
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() GoFaster - 2012-07-12 3:11 PM I told her she had no business doing a marathon that took 9 hours and should start of with more reasonable ambitions, and shorter goal distances. Elitist.
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Jen and Ryan - I only just got a chance to read your race reports from this past weekend - congratulations to both of you - sounds like really smart racing all around. Sounds like both of you executed and paced very well. Jen, good to hear you are recovering well also - can't wait to read about IMMT. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Goosedog - 2012-07-12 3:24 PM GoFaster - 2012-07-12 3:11 PM I told her she had no business doing a marathon that took 9 hours and should start of with more reasonable ambitions, and shorter goal distances. Elitist. Is that elitist, or just simple douche-baggery? I sometimes get the two confused.... Edited by TankBoy 2012-07-12 2:32 PM |
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() TankBoy - 2012-07-12 3:32 PM Is that an elitist, or just simple douche-baggery? I sometimes get the two confused.... It's a subtle distinction. If your username is GoFaster, elitist, obviously. If you're some schlub that hasn't broken 2hr in a HM, douche-baggery.
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Hey all, Got a swim in tonight and noticed that my kick really sucks! I've always know it was bad but today I tried 100m making a conscious effort to reduce my kick and I ended up going about 3secs faster! Not sure if I should make an effort to improve my kick or just learn a 2 beat kick. |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Goosedog - 2012-07-12 3:34 PM TankBoy - 2012-07-12 3:32 PM Is that an elitist, or just simple douche-baggery? I sometimes get the two confused.... It's a subtle distinction. If your username is GoFaster, elitist, obviously. If you're some schlub that hasn't broken 2hr in a HM, douche-baggery. So a sub 2-hour half marathon moves you from a doucebag to an elitist? Awesome. I'm an elitiest. And it feels good. |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() sicone - 2012-07-12 3:52 PM Hey all, Got a swim in tonight and noticed that my kick really sucks! I've always know it was bad but today I tried 100m making a conscious effort to reduce my kick and I ended up going about 3secs faster! Not sure if I should make an effort to improve my kick or just learn a 2 beat kick. My general thoughts on that is that the 2 beat kick is a great tool to minimize kick for those that can't do it well (due to lack of form, inflexibility, strength). In my opinion: If you want to keep swimming long-term, you should learn a proper kick. If you think your interest in swimming will fizzle out in a year or two, then stick with the 2-beat. |
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![]() sicone - 2012-07-12 12:52 PM Hey all, Got a swim in tonight and noticed that my kick really sucks! I've always know it was bad but today I tried 100m making a conscious effort to reduce my kick and I ended up going about 3secs faster! Not sure if I should make an effort to improve my kick or just learn a 2 beat kick. I'm of two minds of a kick. My kick generally sucks, and I only kick when swimming really for balance, not proulsion. In kick sets it's taken me quite a while to appreciate them, but they are really good core work. For pure swimmers, yeah, learn to kick properly. For triathletes, who generally are also in a wetsuit, it's way down on my personal list of swim elements to master. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() ratherbeswimming - 2012-07-12 3:59 PM Goosedog - 2012-07-12 3:34 PM TankBoy - 2012-07-12 3:32 PM Is that an elitist, or just simple douche-baggery? I sometimes get the two confused.... It's a subtle distinction. If your username is GoFaster, elitist, obviously. If you're some schlub that hasn't broken 2hr in a HM, douche-baggery. So a sub 2-hour half marathon moves you from a douchebag to an elitist? Awesome. I'm an elitiest. And it feels good. Welcome to the club! |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() ChrisM - 2012-07-12 4:11 PM sicone - 2012-07-12 12:52 PM Hey all, Got a swim in tonight and noticed that my kick really sucks! I've always know it was bad but today I tried 100m making a conscious effort to reduce my kick and I ended up going about 3secs faster! Not sure if I should make an effort to improve my kick or just learn a 2 beat kick. I'm of two minds of a kick. My kick generally sucks, and I only kick when swimming really for balance, not proulsion. In kick sets it's taken me quite a while to appreciate them, but they are really good core work. For pure swimmers, yeah, learn to kick properly. For triathletes, who generally are also in a wetsuit, it's way down on my personal list of swim elements to master. I need to figure out the distinctions between the different freestyle kicks - I am not sure what I do, so I assume I kick just enough to keep my feet up. I can hang pretty well with my group at Master's, but I do get my handed to me on kick sets.... ...and butterfly. |
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![]() Speaking of 2 x 20s.... What are they supposed to feel like? I'll admit to not having tested in over a year, so I am going by old numbers combined with perceived effort. Usually in these sets, I start out and in the first 5 minutes get a little worried that I won't be able to finish. But I always do, as I warm up to the higher effort. Last night bumped up a little (properly calibrated, etc) and it wasn't as hard, and while I was almost blown up at the end, that was really the result of me pushing the pace, rather than just holding on and getting beat up by the watts. I could have pulled back and been a little more comfortable. So, for these (assuming I am not going to actually test) should the RPE be "I'm barely holding on," like Goosedog's last two laps, or "this is hard, but not that hard unless I push it...."? |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Really long post, but I thought the group might be interested in the exchange between Bryan and me relative to my upcoming IMLP race. He gave me very good advice and invited me to share at my discretion: TankBoy - 2012-07-11 3:42 PM Ok, so I don't even know if their is a question in here, but just looking for thoughts from smart people. Here is the deal. i have Lake Placid coming up in 2 weeks. I was diagnosed with a pinched meniscus (interior, right knee) probably about 7 weeks ago. Zero running for 5 weeks, and limited running (20 minutes per day, tops) for the past two weeks. It has not affected my swimming or cycling. Knee is better, but the inflammation definitely comes and goes. PT twice a week with one of the best sport docs in the region. At this time we don't think there is any tearing, but the worry is that by running on it while inflamed it may begin to fray the edges (if it has not already). I have not yet had an MRI as I would not want to do anything surgical until after LP anyway even if I didn't race, and would just have to have it re-scanned at that time anyway. So, a few weeks ago i had a non-decision to make - I was pretty well resigned to swimming and biking and then DNF and cheer leading for my wife and friends. However the knee has responded better than expected, but still obviously injured. I am now simply managing it and could probably run the entirety of the marathon, but not nearly the run I hoped to have, and will likely suffer a much longer recovery for it. I think my fitness is very good at the moment even though I do not have nearly the time on my feet that I would like. This race is sort of a tweener for me - my plan was to do IMLP three years in a row with the goal of seeing how fast I could go in year three. Next year (year three) I will be on sabbatical from work from December '12 through August '13 and thus will have 8 solid months to focus on LP. I have Bone Island half in January and Leadman in April. Obviously I would like to get healthy as quickly as possible. At the moment the tentative plan is to run, but will not commit until my last PT next week. So I guess I am just looking for a little perspective. Is there something obvious that I should be thinking about that I may be missing, or questions that I should be asking that are not immediately apparent to me? Bryan, thanks in advance for any advice you might be able to offer, and if you do have thoughts on my course of action let me know if I can share them with the group? All the best, bryancd - 2012-07-11 5:30 PM Let me see if I can answer your question as if it was a decision I was making for myself. I never do an Ironman without a specific goal. In my case, I only do IM's to earn Kona slots. That's it, no other reason. Other folks have time goals, where they want to improve their performance, while others more simply like doing the race in as many different locations as possible. Not me, for me it's simply a means to an end. If I had incurred the injury you did and was forced to take a prolonged break from run training in the weeks leading into a planned Ironman, I would have long ago bagged the race and would have reset my plan. I would rather eat the cost of entry, convalesce, and select another race down the road to show up healthy to. Based on what you said, simply finishing another IMLP is of little value as you have done it already. Finishing it with an improved performance, which appears to be your primary goal, is also out of the question at this point. But you already have a plan in place where you can work back from the injury, improve your running during the fall/winter, and build towards an IMLP 2013 hopefully in far better condition. Racing their race in a few weeks isn't going to improve your fitness. It's going to put you in a hole potentially that may take some time to emerge from. That's the cost, so what is the benefit? That's what you need to ask yourself. All of the training you have done to prepare for this race has improved your overall fitness and that's a VERY good thing. Racing is just validating the work, but you know you have done the work. If you do decide to do the race, then not doing the run sounds like the smartest idea. I understand your wife and friends are racing so you will be there anyway and could get some good training out of it. If you do decide to run, I would suggest a very aggressive run/walk strategy where at a minimum you walk the entire length of every aid station and still play it by ear and not be afraid to walk off the course. And for sure, if you think this has value, please feel free to share it with the group. TankBoy - 2012-07-12 10:18 AM Thanks Bryan, that has tremendous value. You have pretty much described where my brain is at the moment. I guess what makes it tough is that I do not have a "fixed" goal like KQ or even AG this year to point to as a decision point. My primary goal for this year was to just nick in under 11 hours on this particular course. But there is nothing really magic about 11 hours though other than a gauge of progress from last year with an eye toward next. This bit is REALLY key: Racing their race in a few weeks isn't going to improve your fitness. It's going to put you in a hole potentially that may take some time to emerge from. That's the cost, so what is the benefit? That's what you need to ask yourself. That is the discussion that I need to have with my doctor and coach this week. At the moment I am definitely planning on the swim and bike (there are obvious benchmarks to be gained by doing so), but for the run I just have to do the cost/benefit analysis based on my goals for next year, taking into account both the physical and mental impacts of the decision. Seems pretty straight forward when you put it like that. Thanks again, Bryan. TankBoy - 2012-07-12 11:23 AM Oh, and one other thing. This morning I woke up and the knee actually felt 100% for the first time in 7 weeks. Go figure. Do your PMs have special healing powers? bryancd - 2012-07-12 11:29 AM I sense you have a high Midichlorine count and the Force is with you. So as Bryan suggested I spoke with both my coach and doctor today concerning the costs vs. the benefits of running. They have both spoken directly with each other about my training, goals and rehab. The doc's perspective is that aside from the setback earlier this week my progress is going uncommonly well and that unless something changes in the next week I should plan on running the marathon. They feel that this will have the benefit of finding out more definitively if this is a long-term problem that will require more "aggressive" treatment or if the current treatment protocol is working as they hope. Their feeling is that if the run causes me a significantly longer rehab, then I probably would have required a longer and aggressive rehab anyway - "at least this way we will know," they said. The downside (cost) is that they also feel that I will suffer from a muscular endurance standpoint as I have really not had any long runs. I won't have the run I had planned on, but I will have the run that I was able to train for. Feet, calves and hip flexors will definitely take the hit. From the coach's perspective he felt it would be very good benchmark to hit my IM bike effort and then run about 4 miles off the bike so that we can get a good idea of where we are relative to fitness and pacing strategy. His only concern is that I not regress so much that I cannot begin strength training at the end of this season, whenever we determine that might be. They all echoed Bryan in saying that I should not be afraid to walk off the course if it goes south at all. At the moment both doctors and coach still see a possible benefit, so unless something changes in the next 10 days, it looks like I am running. Now I have to find something else to fret about. Woot. |
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![]() ratherbeswimming - 2012-07-12 12:59 PM Goosedog - 2012-07-12 3:34 PM TankBoy - 2012-07-12 3:32 PM Is that an elitist, or just simple douche-baggery? I sometimes get the two confused.... It's a subtle distinction. If your username is GoFaster, elitist, obviously. If you're some schlub that hasn't broken 2hr in a HM, douche-baggery. So a sub 2-hour half marathon moves you from a doucebag to an elitist? Awesome. I'm an elitiest. And it feels good. Wow, imagine what a sub 2:00 HIM run makes you...... |
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![]() . Now I have to find something else to fret about. Woot. Congrats! But surely you've started obssessively checking weather.com? newbie |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() ChrisM - 2012-07-12 4:17 PM ratherbeswimming - 2012-07-12 12:59 PM Goosedog - 2012-07-12 3:34 PM TankBoy - 2012-07-12 3:32 PM Is that an elitist, or just simple douche-baggery? I sometimes get the two confused.... It's a subtle distinction. If your username is GoFaster, elitist, obviously. If you're some schlub that hasn't broken 2hr in a HM, douche-baggery. So a sub 2-hour half marathon moves you from a doucebag to an elitist? Awesome. I'm an elitiest. And it feels good. Wow, imagine what a sub 2:00 HIM run makes you...... It doesn't have a specific term, but it will get you banned from TT. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() ChrisM - 2012-07-12 4:19 PM . Now I have to find something else to fret about. Woot. Congrats! But surely you've started obssessively checking weather.com? newbie weather.com??? phhtttt. Everyone knows that accuweather.com gives you a longer long-range forecast. It allows you to start fretting about the weather a good 10 days earlier than weather.com. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() ratherbeswimming - 2012-07-12 1:01 PM sicone - 2012-07-12 3:52 PM Hey all, Got a swim in tonight and noticed that my kick really sucks! I've always know it was bad but today I tried 100m making a conscious effort to reduce my kick and I ended up going about 3secs faster! Not sure if I should make an effort to improve my kick or just learn a 2 beat kick. My general thoughts on that is that the 2 beat kick is a great tool to minimize kick for those that can't do it well (due to lack of form, inflexibility, strength). In my opinion: If you want to keep swimming long-term, you should learn a proper kick. If you think your interest in swimming will fizzle out in a year or two, then stick with the 2-beat. I think if you are traditionally using a 6-beat kick, then you try 2-beat for awhile, you'll rapidly find out how good your body position and balance really is in the water. I wasn't really a fan of it to start with. But it forces you to work on a good chest-down / horizontal position, otherwise your legs sink like a rock. Also a lot of people just sort of flutter kick without a purpose, which is not the same thing as a 6-beat kick. If you get the 2-beat timing correct, it is much easier to carry that back over to a proper 6-beat kick. Doing that, in turn, improves body rotation which usually fixes a lot of other things. Just my $.02 |
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Elite![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() ChrisM - 2012-07-12 4:19 PM . Now I have to find something else to fret about. Woot. Congrats! But surely you've started obssessively checking weather.com? newbie Rusty - without any medical expertise what so ever, I think it's fine to start the marathon. Like you said, you can assess as you go along and pull the plug at anytime. It also hopefully gives you a very clear idea of whether there is a greater issue that becomes unmasked as a result of starting the marathon. Either way you seem to be very Zen about the whole issue and you have a great perspective on being able to call it a day if need be. |
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Elite![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Goosedog - 2012-07-12 3:34 PM TankBoy - 2012-07-12 3:32 PM Is that an elitist, or just simple douche-baggery? I sometimes get the two confused.... It's a subtle distinction. If your username is GoFaster, elitist, obviously. If you're some schlub that hasn't broken 2hr in a HM, douche-baggery.
It's always a good day when you can graduate to being elitist. And considering the number of times I stick my foot in my mouth when speaking/typing before thinking, douche bag tends to be status quo some days... |
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![]() Oh, if only it was posted in TT...... http://beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=450490&posts=1#M4308627 |
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