Disagreement with swim coach on kicking

Expert

764

Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking

I thought kick drills were for carrying on conversations with friends...

I barely kick, too, but sometimes I'll do a few laps of kick to give my arms a break after a hard set, or just to do something different and break up the workout a little. Then again, my freestyle kick laps take foreeeevvvveeerrrr so if I'm in a hurry I'll cut them out.

My Race Log

Veteran

231

Huntington Beach

Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking

AdventureBear - 2008-01-16 5:35 PM

Using a kcikboard brings your upper body out of the water and hyperextends your neck and your low back...not good for anything!

I am a varsity water polo and swim coach for a local high school and have my guys and girls teams do kickboard training on a regular basis. I especially like having the JV and Frosh kids doing it. This is because most novice to intermediate swimmers tend to sink their hips and legs into the water thus not staying aerodynamic while swimming. Now, by putting a kickboard out in front of them it gets their upper bodies out of the water and causes their hips to sink even more. Then they try to kick and find themselves not going anywhere. By using the kickboard it forces the swimmers to focus even harder on keeping their hips and legs up while they swim. It also increases the muscles of the lower back enabling them to keep their hips up for longer distances. This is especially helpful when swimming in a comp. where you look up every 5-10 strokes to make sure you're lined up with the buoy you need to swim around. There is a reason why every HS and college swim and water polo team have kickboards, because it works.
The best workout to do on a kickboard is the dolphin kick (same kick used in butterfly). This focuses on keeping your legs together while you swim (key) as well as strengthens the lower back in ways no other workout can. I think it's great your GF if your coach. Now you just need to listen to her.

My Race Log

Bob

2194

Binghamton, NY

Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking

This is going to get interesting!

I agree that kicking with a board is a great workout and is beneficial to any swimmer. Kicking drills without a kickboard are a great way to focus on balance and body position. I tend to do most of my kicking with a board and do a lot of butterfly kick to strengthen the abs and back. 200 yd kick sets hurt like hell but as I said earlier have a great place in your training!

My Race Log

Master

1699

Malvern, PA

Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking

quick response , John!

Edited by maxmattmick 2008-01-17 11:26 AM

My Race Log

Master

1699

Malvern, PA

Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking

JohnnyKay - 2008-01-16 4:16 PM

She's your coach. She's your current SO. She's a swimmer.

Shut your trap and kick harder.

that's better... great response! LOL

My Race Log

Elite

3658

Roswell, GA

Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking

JohnnyKay - 2008-01-16 4:16 PM

She's your coach. She's your current SO. She's a swimmer.

Shut your trap and kick harder.

I'm with Johnny. Work that kick boy!

My Race Log

Master

1567

Kauai, Hawaii

Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking

ChrisM - 2008-01-16 11:48 AM

I'm confused:

(1) why you think kicking hard for 200 yards results in you kicking hard when you swim? Can't you just revert to your normal swiming kick for the other 2500 yards of your workout??

(2) She's not a coach, but she's your coach? This isn't high school swim team, if I don't want to kick during our masters workout, I don't kick.

You said what I was thinking!

My Race Log

Member

1699

Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking

This has been a fun thread to read. I appreciate the advice.

First, I will give up swimming and tri's before I stop dating the "coach". Swimming is one of the activities we enjoy together (it's how we met) so I think I have to make this work.

Second, to answer why I don't just kick slower when I swim, I guess I am not particularly coordinated. I have the same answer to golf coaches who tell me to just keep my head down, reduce my hip rotation, shift 90% of my weight, keep my heel down, release my hands, strike through the ball, and for God's sake, RELAX!! While I can slow down my kicking, it messes up my arms and my breathing, particularly right after I practice kicking much faster.

So what we did this morning talk it through and then work on a two beat kick during my swim right after warmups. It seemed very awkward, it was slow and I was breathing pretty hard, but I think it is the right thing long term. I still did kicking drills but slower and harder kicks. She doesn't care if I lose the kickboard so I will do some of that as well going forward.

Again, thanks everyone!

My Race Log

Coach

9167

Stairway to Seven

Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking

badnews - 2008-01-16 4:32 PM
If you are hyperextending your neck, hold onto just the tail of the kick board. You can even keep your face in the water and practice breathing if you wish.

But the point is, you simply don't need it. If you are holding onto just the tail, you are still getting flotation from the board that detracts from teh opportunity to practice balance on your own. Since balance is the #1 thing that keeps the majority of triathletes from swimming well, they shoudl take every opportunity to improve it.

My Race Log

Master

2571

Tiger's Den

Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking

I frequently get "blast kick" sets from my coach in the middle of a workout. Both with a board on on my side without.

Usually it's a set of something like 5 X 100 kick alternating hard and ez 100s.

or 10 X 50 kick on side, alternating sides.

My Race Log

Not a Coach

11473

Media, PA

Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking

AdventureBear - 2008-01-17 11:53 PM

badnews - 2008-01-16 4:32 PM If you are hyperextending your neck, hold onto just the tail of the kick board. You can even keep your face in the water and practice breathing if you wish.

But the point is, you simply don't need it. If you are holding onto just the tail, you are still getting flotation from the board that detracts from teh opportunity to practice balance on your own. Since balance is the #1 thing that keeps the majority of triathletes from swimming well, they shoudl take every opportunity to improve it.

No. I think the point is that you can still focus on those things with the kickboard. You don't NEED it. But there's nothing wrong with using it from time to time. Just like a pull buoy, fins or any other "toy". Depends on what you're focusing on at the time. I kick with a board, on my side, on my back, etc. Adds variety and there's a slightly different focal point in doing each of them. Hopefully it all adds up to better swimming.

My Race Log

Regular

59

100k IMC Bike Course

Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking

TriAya - 2008-01-16 1:18 PM

Uhhh ... maybe you should pick your dates more carefully

A good coach is willing to give you a reason for any direction, and explain it so that it makes sense to you.

VinemanCalifornia - 2008-01-16 8:06 PM

AdventureBear - 2008-01-16 5:35 PM

Using a kcikboard brings your upper body out of the water and hyperextends your neck and your low back...not good for anything!

I am a varsity water polo and swim coach for a local high school and have my guys and girls teams do kickboard training on a regular basis. I especially like having the JV and Frosh kids doing it. This is because most novice to intermediate swimmers tend to sink their hips and legs into the water thus not staying aerodynamic while swimming. Now, by putting a kickboard out in front of them it gets their upper bodies out of the water and causes their hips to sink even more. Then they try to kick and find themselves not going anywhere. By using the kickboard it forces the swimmers to focus even harder on keeping their hips and legs up while they swim. It also increases the muscles of the lower back enabling them to keep their hips up for longer distances. This is especially helpful when swimming in a comp. where you look up every 5-10 strokes to make sure you're lined up with the buoy you need to swim around. There is a reason why every HS and college swim and water polo team have kickboards, because it works.
The best workout to do on a kickboard is the dolphin kick (same kick used in butterfly). This focuses on keeping your legs together while you swim (key) as well as strengthens the lower back in ways no other workout can. I think it's great your GF if your coach. Now you just need to listen to her.

VinemanCalifornia - I trust that you explained this to your athletes.

For any athlete to make the best out of each skill, drill, set, or session, I think it is 100% neccessary for the coach/instructor (sounds to me like more instructors out there) to fully explain the purpose of each skill, drill, set, or session. As an athlete, I improve quicker; as a former freestyle ski coach, the intended results depend on it.
For the OPer, I'd suggest asking your GF, or any future instructor, "what's the purpose?"

Champion

9600

Fountain Hills, AZ

Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking

JohnnyKay - 2008-01-18 10:15 AM

AdventureBear - 2008-01-17 11:53 PM

badnews - 2008-01-16 4:32 PM If you are hyperextending your neck, hold onto just the tail of the kick board. You can even keep your face in the water and practice breathing if you wish.

But the point is, you simply don't need it. If you are holding onto just the tail, you are still getting flotation from the board that detracts from teh opportunity to practice balance on your own. Since balance is the #1 thing that keeps the majority of triathletes from swimming well, they shoudl take every opportunity to improve it.

No. I think the point is that you can still focus on those things with the kickboard. You don't NEED it. But there's nothing wrong with using it from time to time. Just like a pull buoy, fins or any other "toy". Depends on what you're focusing on at the time. I kick with a board, on my side, on my back, etc. Adds variety and there's a slightly different focal point in doing each of them. Hopefully it all adds up to better swimming.

I have a TYR streamlined kickboard that provides very little flotation. Held straight out in front, it really is nothing more than a place to rest your hands. It's a good solution as opposed to those big foam boards often found at lap pools.

My Race Log

Master

1567

Kauai, Hawaii

Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking

bryancd - 2008-01-18 6:36 AM

JohnnyKay - 2008-01-18 10:15 AM

AdventureBear - 2008-01-17 11:53 PM

badnews - 2008-01-16 4:32 PM If you are hyperextending your neck, hold onto just the tail of the kick board. You can even keep your face in the water and practice breathing if you wish.

But the point is, you simply don't need it. If you are holding onto just the tail, you are still getting flotation from the board that detracts from the opportunity to practice balance on your own. Since balance is the #1 thing that keeps the majority of triathletes from swimming well, they should take every opportunity to improve it.

No. I think the point is that you can still focus on those things with the kick board. You don't NEED it. But there's nothing wrong with using it from time to time. Just like a pull buoy, fins or any other "toy". Depends on what you're focusing on at the time. I kick with a board, on my side, on my back, etc. Adds variety and there's a slightly different focal point in doing each of them. Hopefully it all adds up to better swimming.

I have a TYR streamlined kick board that provides very little flotation. Held straight out in front, it really is nothing more than a place to rest your hands. It's a good solution as opposed to those big foam boards often found at lap pools.

Ditto on that kick board. From what I gather, our new coach explained what to focus on for using the kick board while flutter kicking, she said to focus on where your kick is initiating, which should be from the hips, which causes the body to rotate, hence you become more streamline in your stroke, also you should be feeling the water on the top and bottom of your feet, what I gather from that is not to kick above the water. (no splashing)

then you loose the kick board and flutter kick on your side, rotating half way or every ten kicks... Using the board or no board they are all DRILLS to get you to be a better swimmer. I agree with the butterfly kick with the kick board is great core exercise.

My Race Log

Expert

1170

Berkley, MI

Subject: RE: Disagreement with swim coach on kicking

amiine - 2008-01-16 5:58 PM There is a reason why 99% of triatheles SUCK at swimming and no it is not because they don't kick enough, but it is because they think the should train different than a swimmer.

Amen! I am lucky as my tri club is a highly competitive swim club as well. Like - seriously competitive swimmers. I am learning to swim with swimmers. I think that that has helped most of all.

My Race Log

Disagreement with swim coach on kicking (Page 2)

REGISTER TODAY