Kids in restaurants (Page 3)

I know how about being sympathetic...

Perhaps, just perhaps we should all stop thinking about ourselves just for a moment.  Maybe there's more to what's going on than what you see.  Maybe it's a couple that hasn't been out to dinner in months because they can't find or afford a baby sitter, maybe it's a family celebrating some momentus event in their lives, maybe it's a farewell dinnner for the father who is going off to Iraq....

Here's a true story that happened to me:  Young mother sitting in a resteraunt, she has two young kids (I'm guessing 3 & 4)  and they are jumping on the booth, yelling at each other, arguing, getting out of the booth and walking/running/jumping/skipping in between the other tables/booths.  The young mother is just sitting there eating, seemingly unaware of or not caring about how her kids are acting.

I get fed up, I go up to her and ask her to take control of her kids because they are disturping my evening out at the resteraunt.

She looks up at me, and tears start to well up in her eyes.  She politely apologizes, says that I'm right, then in a trembling, soft voice says she just left the hospital where her husband died and she just couldn't go back to her/their home and she was trying to gain the strength to explain to her two small children that daddy was dead.

Feeling like a total git, I called the waitress over and paid her bill.

Ok her kids "disturbed my dinner" so I complained...but who really had the right to complain that day...me or her?

In the family that I saw, both parents were alive and well and both children seemed normal. Child was misbehaving, plain and simple. His sibling was behaving quite well. Parents just didn't care.

I know this is post-modern America and we have to be all PC and worried about everyone's dang feelings, and that everyone is "special" and everyone is a "winner". I am REALLY thankful that my sister and I weren't raised by parents who lived in a time when that was the case. We were disciplined, we behaved. We know what's right and what's not and our parents took responsibility for our misbehavior, and WE learned consequences of our actions. And my parents did this without abuse, without threatening us, without making us afraid of them. I've spent plenty of time taking care of children - including children with special needs - to know when behavior is and isn't appropriate. I've sat for kids with autism, learning disabilities and other behavioral conditions. And if I end up having a child who has a special need, then I will make sure I am prepared as I can be. HOWEVER, assuming my kids are "normal" - they sure as hell aren't going to act out in public. If it was good enough for my sister and I, it will be good enough for my kids.

I don't mean to sound unfeeling towards families who may have undergone tragedy - but the VAST majority of behavioral issues that I've seen with the kids I nannied for, were simply just parents who didn't bother to discipline.

How many people there had kids who behaved?  There have always been parents that have let their kids run amok.  Most parents don't just like most parents didn't then.  It may bug you, so rant away but get over it.  If that was the worst thing that happened to you that day then be grateful and move on. 

So you're saying that in the grand scheme of things your enjoyment of a meal in a resteraunt supercedes whatever is going on to cause the kids acting out?

If the child is developmentally disabled...stay home if he is going to disturb my dinner?

If the child has Teurets and screams profanities and screeteches...stay home if he  is going to disturb my dinner.

If the poor mother has spent the last week watching her husband die and can't emotionally go home...stay home if your kid is going to disturb my dinner.

If a couple has a toddler and they haven't been to a resteraunt together since the child was born...stay home if your kid is going to disturb my dinner.

If daddy is going off to Iraq and the family doesn't know if they will ever see him alive again...stay home if your kid is going to disturb my dinner.

Maybe the family has travelled to watch daddy race a tri and they don't feel like sitting in a cramped overpriced hotel room while daddy is at the expo looking at thousand dollar bikes....stay home if your kid is going to disturb my dinner.

the problem I have with all of these is that it is all "my, my, my, my, my, my my! me, me, me ,me, me!"  My enjoyment, my peace and quiet, my satisfaction,.

So...since this "disturbance" with the recently widowed wife went on for a "longer time", what should I have done..."Hey miss I'm sorry about your loss but you have ten minutes then after that get your emotions under control, buck up, and you and your kids are out of here, get back to your house so that I can enjoy my $15 sandwhich"

But this again shows why it makes more sense to go to the manager.  He/she would have gotten the same information, might well have comp'ed the meal, and could have gotten back to you, without leaving you feeling like a heartless ba$tard. And unless you are at a restuarant that is pretty much next door to the hospital, how often are the kids out of control because the parent has been hit with a ton of bricks and is still in a state of shock? Heck, even your other examples would not justify the sort of behavior you saw in these two kids.

Do none of you people watch House? Principle of Occam's razor - always the simplest answer. This is the kind of post-modern bs I'm talking about. Placing the blame elsewhere, or looking for reason or blame that isn't there. It's always about feelings and not stepping on people's toes. Sure, extenuating circumstances exist, but in MOST cases, that's not it.  

It's always lupus.

Right....because I'm often accussed of being some "liberal, tree-hugging, PC spouting, hippie"  Yeah that's me.

My point is, that in the situation where kids are acting out in a resteraunt everyone is assuming that the parents are just "bad parents", assuming that the parents "don't discipline their kids", assuming that the parents "don't care". 

Why make this assumption.  This assumption leads naturally to a negative conclusion.  Why not turn it on it's head and assume until proven otherwise that there is some other explanation for what's going on.  Why not give the parents the benefit of the doubt? 

Second I think that anyone that would send wait staff over to complain on their behalf is a chicken.  If youre unwilling to do it yourself, dont' send someone else over to do your dirty work.  If it's that disturbing and offensive to you have the gutts to man-up and confront the person yourself.  If you're unwilling to at least do that, then deal with it.  If it's not a big enough deal to handle yourself, then it doesn't seem like it's a big enough deal to be handled at all.

Third, I would hope that if, God forbid, I'm in a resteraunt with my daughter, after having some tragedy befall me.  And I simply am too emotionally, mentally or physically incapable of telling my daughter to sit down, I hope that some kind stranger smiles at me and speaks nicely to my daughter, rather than asking the waiter to come over and tell me to leave because some anonymous patron can't eat their sandwhich with a child crying....

Fourth...it's not always lupus...but the world also isn't always about me, my enjoyment, what I want, my comfort, my peace and quiet...

I think you are missing the issues of courtesy, that we should treat those around us in the way we ourselves would want to be treated.  Maybe I am out to dinner because I just lost a loved one myself.  I just want to quietly eat and try to put my head back together, but I am being disrupted by the child who is loudly screaming uncontrollably for the last 20-30 minutes, who runs around the tables, or keeps standing on his chair and trying to throw his food/toys/silverware at me, all the while his parents say and do nothing.

So, maybe I am the newly widowed person, or my child just died, or it's my last night before my spouse ships off and I want to have a pleasant last memory.  But I should just stay at home, because there are parents who do not believe in limit setting with kids? 

Like I said in an earlier posting, I don't tell my patients parents not to go out.  I tell them to have an expectation of behaviors, and a plan to manage them or to bail out. For that matter, maybe the parent whose kid is developmentally delayed/autistic/Tourrette's/whatever, should ask the restaurant to be seating somewhere it is easier to remove the child from, or more "away" from the action.

BTW, this is not counting the fast food experience, or the bystander who makes some obnoxious comment as you try to implement the bail out plan of "maybe you should try to control your kid".  Obviously you are trying. this is for the family that allows the behaviors to go unresponded to for more than a couple of minutes, as though it is perfectly normal and natural.

Dang it; double posted!

Exactly - it's perfectly okay for people with children to be "me me me" all the time "MY kids are perfect, MY kids aren't misbehaving". But god forbid those of us who don't have kids have anything bad befall us.

Jebus, people...

Oh, and for the record. I vote Democrat. I care about the trees and human rights and all that. But I also care about common courtesy.

gearboy..So good you had to post it twice

I understand what you're saying... Being a parent I understand the concept of parental responsibility.  And I would certainly under normal circumstances let my child act out in that manner.  I also know that is under "normal circumstances".  I, like most parents, have experienced the "abnormal circumstances" with my child.  I have handled it in many different ways depending on the type of behavior of my daughter, the situation, the setting, and in all honesty also depending on how I was feeling.  In the vast majority of the time my daughter is well behaved, on those small occassions when she isn't it gets handled quickly, then there are those very small number of occassions that I'm too warn down, too tired, to take action immediately (sound familiar parents).

I also believe that the vast majority of parents are good, well intentioned parents.  So rather than jumping to the conclusion that because a child is misbehaving the parents are bad parents, I choose to give the parents the benefit of the doubt and assume that the actions of the child are an aboration, and the so too is the inaction of the parents.

Really, what does this attitude hurt?

we're just going to have to agree to disagree.  I will never forget the look in that young womans eyes.  I forced her to apologize to me...she...apologized...to me...!?!

In the first of your points, I would have to disagree because it assumes that I am the most reasonable person at all times in all situations.  Perhaps using a proxy it best because I am too agitated to be reasonable.  Perhaps I am simply in the wrong.  Having more people puts some distance between the potentially aggreived parties.  That's one reason that we use police officers and courts to help people resolve differences; it's why at your job (or at least at mine), if you have a problem, you go to your immediate supervisor if you have a serious disagreement with a co-worker.

And I'd love to live on the planet where the normal reaction of a stranger to screaming, fighting, and poorly behaved children is to smile and engage them. In my world, that would scream "stranger danger!"

We are of like minds here.  Also we try to go out earlier when things are quiter.  Also same when without kids we try to avoid places that have them for a quiet meal.

Wouldn't common courtesy be to give the people the benifit of the doubt?  or maybe instead of first complaining trying to see which situation it is, the uncaring parent or the person that is having a horrible, horrible day?

Instead of saying "Hey waiter get that crying, screaming kid out of here I can't enjoy my club sandwhich.", what about asking the parent if she needs any help or if there is anything you can do for her?

Yay finally someone else with my view! :P  Anyways.  Parenting is hard, and there is no governing body to test and licence people before they become parents.  Sometimes I wish there was.  

I was raised not to complain (Nobody likes a tattletale) and to behave in public.  I was also taught that if I want things to improve, I must find a positive way to improve the situation (ie Play Nice with your friends) or go find something else to do.

 My parents used methods that I don't agree with but the general knowledge of psychology and education was nowhere near what it is today.  My son will see my methods of child raising as old fashioned, backwards and potentially harmful 30 years from now because he will know more than I do.  At least this is what I hope for.

 It's not wrong to stand up for your feelings and speak directly to the parents.  It's not as good, but it's not wrong to speak to the manager, but there are good ways to say it and poor ways to say it.  It's not wrong to ask to be moved somewhere quiet or simply go somewhere else.  It improves your circumstances and leaves everyone else where they are.  

 I choose not to be a victim of my circumstances.  There are very few true victims in the world.  I choose actions and responses that create a world I enjoy.  I enjoy making people happy, even if it's a small thing.  If I could, I would choose to distract the children and redirect them.  It makes everyones day better.

I agree that most of the time, most parents are trying their best.  I know that (other than myself), most parents don't start out saying "How can I screw up my kids today?" And I think Adco above you here has it dead on - we look to the reaction of the parents.  I think in the situation you initially described, you would have had to be very sensitive to pick up on the mother appearing to be in shock over her loss.  And if you have the patience to tolerate the kids' behaviors, then it is fine to let it go.  I know my own tolerance is pretty high (I know this because I ran a girl scout troop one year, and had one really difficult kid.  When mrs gearboy helped us at a rock climbing trip, she told me that even with her many years of experience running troops, she would not have tolerated this kid's behaviors, and  would either have banned her from the activity or had the parents attend.  And her behaviors on this occasion were not an aberration). But I can imagine being upset enough to respond to behaviors.

Hopefully I can single post this time!

OK parents, I don't know if this happens to you but my kids behave for everyone else but us! We don't go to fancy/quiet restuarants with the twins because it is a constant struggle to keep them behaved. We pick kid friendly or ones with waterfalls that drown out the occasional scream, "MOMMY CAN I HAVE..." My friends who take them say they are well behaved for them; go figure!

I don't let them get away with bad behavior and you will see us constantly redirecting them.

As for the women who lost her husband, very sad that she was all alone with her children, where was the rest of the family, hers/his, friends... Where I live I only have friends no family, that would be a tough situation...

Perhaps I should have been more clear. "Bad Parenting" isn't maybe the more accurate phrase. It's a question of giving your kids appropriate BOUNDARIES - which, in all honesty, seems to be lacking in society these days. Maybe I don't have kids, but as I mentioned, I've spent ample time with NUMEROUS families and in all the cases of constant misbehavior, even with the kids who had special needs, it was a question of the parents not giving them boundaries and letting them run amok. One of the little boys I sat for had I don't know what - his parents probably didn't know - but I'm guessing some form of asperger's. He responded VERY well to me when I gave him boundaries, and was a very sweet little boy. Wasn't rocket science.

Sure, my parents were raised in the 50's/60's and times were different and more conservative, and often come across as "strict and abusive"- kids were still paddled in school back then - but they did NOT abuse us. I don't see their parenting skills as cruel. And I wasn't raised 'back in the day' either - I'm 27. HOWEVER, my parents were very good at setting boundaries. We knew those boundaries and didn't question them. As a result, we were both good teenagers - didn't sneak out, didn't drink or do drugs, did well in school - teachers liked us, we knew HOW to behave. This doesn't take putting 4 year olds in therapy, or giving every kid Ritalin or sending them to special schools and programs. It's common freakin' sense.

And that's all I'm gonna say. I understand that everyone has a bad day; that's understandable. And I've never actually gotten up and complained to anyone about how their kids are acting - b/c I'd be ripped a new one like in this thread. Though maybe next time, I will. Nevertheless, it's still appalling.  

Funny thing is my parents were the same way; conservative good at setting boundries etc.  My older Brother was a straight A student went to the Airforce Acadamy, Graduated top 10% of his class, etc.  He is now a Colonel stationed in Belgium.  That being said I was MUCH different.  I dropped out of school and got my GED when I was 17.  I did drugs and I drank at least a little.  I even snuck out and stole my brothers car one night, boy was he steamed.  Guess what not every kid is the same I knew how to behave and I chose not to, consequences be damned.  So much for common sense.  By the way my kid takes Ritalin for ADD so you might want to take some care when lecturing about what takes common sense to resolve.

By the way not to worry AI'm behaving much better now. 

One in 1,000,000 chance. Sounds like you blew it. I'll let you know the next time I see unruly children and find out that one of the parents has died very recently and it's not just parents allowing their children to act like little wankers.

Don't hold your breath.