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2009-04-27 3:17 PM
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Subject: RE: St. Anthony's Triathlon : Official Thread
And I agree.  There were a lot of us that could have made the distance (would have been a slog however) but there were a lot that could not have either.  At first i was angry but after I saw the pros swimming I relaized it was the right thing to do.  You would have been pulling people out right and left.

But I PRed on the bike and run so the day was not a total loss


2009-04-27 3:25 PM
in reply to: #1832971

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Subject: RE: St. Anthony's Triathlon : Official Thread
As a strong swimmer and from someone who trains weekly in 2-5 feet waves depending on the day, I was disappointed.  I understand the reasoning, but it did make me upset to travel for basically a brick I could have done on my own.    I feel terrible for the people who travleed much further than I did for maybe thewir A race of the season to have this happen.
I also think that it is the responsibility of the athlete when they sign up to do a race that they can actually swim that distance comfortably in something other than a pool.  This can set the precident that any race swim should be cancelled due to a few waves.  FAU in boca last week had bigger waves than this and also 2 years ago they were 4 feet..never cancelled and all is fine.  just my opinion though
2009-04-27 3:26 PM
in reply to: #1832971

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Subject: RE: St. Anthony's Triathlon : Official Thread

Ditto...  Stunk to not have the swim, but it was absolutely the correct call.  As mentioned, it continues to amaze me how many toe the line in an Oly that cannot swim 1500 on a great day.  In 2007 I did Chicago (in a harbor, shallow fresh water and pancake flat) where they do reverse order (Pro's go last).  As the 63rd wave I watched them pull people out of the water for hours (some less than 200 yards from the start) and was shocked.  In conditions like we had Sunday, a few would have gone home in boxes.  Props to Philip LaHaye for making that gutsy, controversial yet necessary call.

It is fine line, we don't want to set a precendant for cancelling swims, but how can we implement a system to make people prove they can swim?  Tough tough tough...



Edited by gremlin327 2009-04-27 3:37 PM
2009-04-27 5:18 PM
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Subject: RE: St. Anthony's Triathlon : Official Thread

piperfl - 2009-04-27 4:25 PM As a strong swimmer and from someone who trains weekly in 2-5 feet waves depending on the day, I was disappointed.  I understand the reasoning, but it did make me upset to travel for basically a brick I could have done on my own.    I feel terrible for the people who travleed much further than I did for maybe thewir A race of the season to have this happen.
I also think that it is the responsibility of the athlete when they sign up to do a race that they can actually swim that distance comfortably in something other than a pool.  This can set the precident that any race swim should be cancelled due to a few waves.  FAU in boca last week had bigger waves than this and also 2 years ago they were 4 feet..never cancelled and all is fine.  just my opinion though

I totally agree.  Unfortunately in our society right now there is no such thing as personal responsibility and rather than risk a death/serious injury and/or lawsuit they had to call it.  They canceld the swim at Steelhead last year and there have been some IMs that canceled the swim as well.

2009-04-27 5:33 PM
in reply to: #2113655

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Subject: RE: St. Anthony's Triathlon : Official Thread
gremlin327 - 2009-04-27 4:26 PM

It is fine line, we don't want to set a precendant for cancelling swims, but how can we implement a system to make people prove they can swim?  Tough tough tough...



Well it is possible to require a qualifier (proof of completing a previous Olympic) but that's going to seriously limit the number of participants (which means less money which means a smaller event with less amenities).  I'm not sure I'd go for that however...
2009-04-27 7:27 PM
in reply to: #2113904

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Subject: RE: St. Anthony's Triathlon : Official Thread
I am not sure if it was a justified reason, but by the looks of it maybe so. They mentioned that the rescue kayaks could not get in the water even if swimmers could. I guess they could take that risk with a few jet skis with the pros, but 4,000 amatuers? I was upset at first and would have swam if given an option, but if I did get in trouble (cramp, swallow water etc) I sure know I feel better. Agree that waves in Boca were similar if not worse weekend prior (although a sprint)...

Lost that "race" atmosphere after the swim being cancelled, at least IMHO. Enjoyed the venue a lot and thanks to this year's tease, I will definately be signing up next year. Now I have to put the wetsuit away for another 7 months



2009-04-27 8:58 PM
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Subject: RE: St. Anthony's Triathlon : Official Thread
joe..great to see you at the race!  Totaly agree on the "losing the race feeling"  It didn't feel right doing just a bike and run...At least I ahve Nation's tri in Sept to look forward to!
2009-04-27 9:00 PM
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Subject: RE: St. Anthony's Triathlon : Official Thread
I hate the lowest common denominator.
2009-04-27 9:40 PM
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Subject: RE: St. Anthony's Triathlon : Official Thread
This was supposed to be my first Oly, but I was trained to over 3300 in the pool thanks to my BT plan.  I got in the water the day before when it was pretty wavy too, and felt like I could finish with little difficulty. Having said that, I think they needed to make a call, and cancelling was logistically the easiest.  If they would have made it optional, it would have made coordinating the racers difficult.  I suppose they could have shortened the swim, but I still think someone would have gotten hurt.

I'm so glad I got to swim the 2 days before with my BT friends!!!
2009-04-28 8:04 AM
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Subject: RE: St. Anthony's Triathlon : Official Thread
what i'm curious about - and have heard rumours of - is this resulting in large opportunities for drafting on the bike. some of the bike times are absurdly fast (esp. for particular athletes i know) and all lumped together.

i'm glad i hadn't signed up for this year. i can understand the decision - but i just think it sucks.
2009-04-28 8:13 AM
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Subject: RE: St. Anthony's Triathlon : Official Thread
debs - 2009-04-28 9:04 AM what i'm curious about - and have heard rumours of - is this resulting in large opportunities for drafting on the bike. some of the bike times are absurdly fast (esp. for particular athletes i know) and all lumped together. i'm glad i hadn't signed up for this year. i can understand the decision - but i just think it sucks.


I too thought it would end up as a huge peleton but surprisingly I did not get caught up in many packs.  There was some drafting going on in my wave (M35-39) but I think we were one of the first few waves.  To be honest ti was no worse than last year when we had the swim.  Maybe it got worse as the day went on?

I did see a HUGE pack (maybe the men's elite amateurs?) going the other way at one point.


2009-04-28 8:57 AM
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Subject: RE: St. Anthony's Triathlon : Official Thread
that's funny that we have different takes.  I'm also in the 35-39 AG and thought that there was A LOT of drafting.  I was very concerned that I was going to get penalized for drafting b/c of where I was in packs as the officials were driving by.  At one point during the race I was talking to a rider next to me about how we were inadvertantly caught up in a peloton that we didn't want to be in and didn't really know how to get out of.
2009-04-28 8:59 AM
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Subject: RE: St. Anthony's Triathlon : Official Thread
TriRSquared - 2009-04-28 8:13 AM
debs - 2009-04-28 9:04 AM what i'm curious about - and have heard rumours of - is this resulting in large opportunities for drafting on the bike. some of the bike times are absurdly fast (esp. for particular athletes i know) and all lumped together. i'm glad i hadn't signed up for this year. i can understand the decision - but i just think it sucks.


I too thought it would end up as a huge peleton but surprisingly I did not get caught up in many packs.  There was some drafting going on in my wave (M35-39) but I think we were one of the first few waves.  To be honest ti was no worse than last year when we had the swim.  Maybe it got worse as the day went on?

I did see a HUGE pack (maybe the men's elite amateurs?) going the other way at one point.


I didn't see any huge packs...just a few independent drafting bikes.  I really don't think the bike was any more crowded than it would have been or than I remember it being in previous years.  By sending us off in "number order" they essentially randomized each age group.  Once the race starts there is usually a steady stream of folks coming in out of the swim just like the TT start sort of did.
2009-04-28 9:02 AM
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Subject: RE: St. Anthony's Triathlon : Official Thread
Sluggo312 - 2009-04-28 9:57 AM that's funny that we have different takes.  I'm also in the 35-39 AG and thought that there was A LOT of drafting.  I was very concerned that I was going to get penalized for drafting b/c of where I was in packs as the officials were driving by.  At one point during the race I was talking to a rider next to me about how we were inadvertantly caught up in a peloton that we didn't want to be in and didn't really know how to get out of.


Ah so it was you in that pack I saw...kidding
2009-04-28 9:10 AM
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Subject: RE: St. Anthony's Triathlon : Official Thread
Other comments.

1. Does anyone else think it would have been "more fair" if we hadn't been allowed to wear anything we wouldn't have at the swim exit when the race started?  I saw people kitted out in their GLOVES and SOCKS and CAMELBAKS etc.  I would have gained quite a bit of time on those guys in T1!

2. I don't know why I didn't notice this the day before, but transition was all screwy.  The bike racked RIGHT next to mine (just on the other side of the rack) was #3664 and my number was #3759.  I had no good landmarks near my bike (right in the middle of a big section of racks and again in the middle of my particular rack) so I was depending on the numbers on the bikes on the racks to narrow my search.  And they were jumping all over the place depending upon whether I spotted a number on the left or right side of the rack so I got very confused.  Every tri I have ever done, ONE RACK has consecutive numbers....odds on one side, evens on the other.  Did this strange racking system mess with anyone else's head?  In 20-some odd tri's I have done I have NEVER EVER had that much trouble finding my bike.  In fact, I've never had trouble finding my bike which is why I think this system was quite non-standard.
2009-04-28 9:25 AM
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Subject: RE: St. Anthony's Triathlon : Official Thread

I too was in M35-39 and for the most part, had little trouble with packs.  Every once in a while I would get caught up and had to be super careful not to draft.  For the most part I spend most of the time on the bike passing people (then they pass me back on the run).  There were 3 other guys that I kept going back and forth with, so if one passed and I stopped pedaling a second to not draft, the other 2 would pass.  I could not figure out how they were staying with me so strong as I found them easy to pass once I got behind them, then they would zoom by me.  Come to find out, 2 of the 3 got drafting penalties.  It aggravates me that I had to work so hard to stay ahead of them, but makes me feel good that I finished ahead of all 3 AND 2 of them were drafting.  I think for how big a race it is, St. A's doesa a really good job of catching drafting, no great way to stop it. 

As far as the racks, they went up one side and down the other, so the person 2 bikes away from you had the next number and the person on the other side of the rack was about 50 (depending on where you were on the rack) above or behind you.   This could not have worked out better for them this year with the TT start.  Imagine if that spacing was not in place, there would have been twice as many at each rack at the same time. 

Lastly, I totally agree about staring with all of your gear.  I consider transition the fourth discipline and practice accordingly.  I usually pick up :30 - 2:00 on people in T1 because I keep it VERY simple.  Should have started as if we were coming out of the water.  That said, I put my helmet, sunglasses and shoes on (which I usually clip to the bike) because I did not want to be disadvantaged.

Looking forward to a smooth race next year!

Thinking about Terri (BunnyRunner), she will be missed!!



Edited by gremlin327 2009-04-28 9:27 AM


2009-04-28 9:26 AM
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Subject: RE: St. Anthony's Triathlon : Official Thread
jldicarlo - 2009-04-28 10:10 AM Other comments.

1. Does anyone else think it would have been "more fair" if we hadn't been allowed to wear anything we wouldn't have at the swim exit when the race started?  I saw people kitted out in their GLOVES and SOCKS and CAMELBAKS etc.  I would have gained quite a bit of time on those guys in T1!


Since everyone had the opportunity to wear the helmet, shoes etc.. it was technically fair.  However I did not see the point of wearing all that gear.  What did you save by wearing your helmet?  2 seconds maybe?  It's all a personal choice.  I don't fault anyone for gearing up 100%.

2. I don't know why I didn't notice this the day before, but transition was all screwy.  The bike racked RIGHT next to mine (just on the other side of the rack) was #3664 and my number was #3759.  I had no good landmarks near my bike (right in the middle of a big section of racks and again in the middle of my particular rack) so I was depending on the numbers on the bikes on the racks to narrow my search.  And they were jumping all over the place depending upon whether I spotted a number on the left or right side of the rack so I got very confused.  Every tri I have ever done, ONE RACK has consecutive numbers....odds on one side, evens on the other.  Did this strange racking system mess with anyone else's head?  In 20-some odd tri's I have done I have NEVER EVER had that much trouble finding my bike.  In fact, I've never had trouble finding my bike which is why I think this system was quite non-standard.


There were screwed up.  I finally figured out that they numbered them all consecutive one one side and then consecutive on the other.  So when you looked down a row it made no sense.  If oyu only loked at the bikes on one side however it was all consecutive.  Last year theye did not do this.  I agree it was confusing.

Also they did not put the stickers on at even intervals.  A few of us had less than 12" between stickers and at the end of our rack they were spread out almost 2 feet... As a group we all agreed (those of us that we there at least) to gently move all of the bikes so that we all had the same amount of space.

Edited by TriRSquared 2009-04-28 9:29 AM
2009-04-28 12:47 PM
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Subject: RE: St. Anthony's Triathlon : Official Thread
I had a hard time trying to find my rack on Saturday. Took me almost 15 minutes. I even had two volunteers confused. But on race day it was easy, near the fence closest to the Vinoy and 5 spots from an oak tree in TA.

Side note: There you are Gremlin. I was just looking for you on BT. You gave me a huge boost on the run, just prior to mile 4. My hip was still hurting from my wreck on the bike, but talking to you for a few minutes was just the distraction I needed. Thanks Again.
2009-04-28 1:57 PM
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Subject: RE: St. Anthony's Triathlon : Official Thread
TriRSquared - 2009-04-28 8:13 AM

I did see a HUGE pack (maybe the men's elite amateurs?) going the other way at one point.

it was the men's elite amateurs that i was mostly talking about - there are a lot of guys over 26mph including guys i know who averaged close to 27 and usually can barely hold 24-25 in a sprint distance race.
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