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What Is Base Building Training? (Page 3)
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 2008-12-04 10:55 AM in reply to: #1838453 |
Champion  9600     Fountain Hills, AZ |  Subject: RE: What Is Base Building Training?tjfry - 2008-12-04 10:51 AM I don't train by all the different zones so I don't know exactly where the z3 falls relative to z2 in my workouts. I just use my hr based on my LT test and base my training on where in that curve I am working. That is EXACTLY what I do as well. |
| 2008-12-04 11:16 AM in reply to: #1838461 |
Expert 934 FL | Subject: RE: What Is Base Building Training? So with all these differing opinions, how is a newby such as myself supposed to decide what to do????????? I am just about to get back to running and biking after taking some time off to repair a few injuries. I thought I should be starting a base as I am about 12 weeks from my 1st even of 2009 (a 15k run) and want to do better in 2009. It will be my 2nd season.
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| 2008-12-04 12:02 PM in reply to: #1838510 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: What Is Base Building Training? trimore - 2008-12-04 12:16 PM So with all these differing opinions, how is a newby such as myself supposed to decide what to do????????? I am just about to get back to running and biking after taking some time off to repair a few injuries. I thought I should be starting a base as I am about 12 weeks from my 1st even of 2009 (a 15k run) and want to do better in 2009. It will be my 2nd season. You should start back slowly and relatively easily. Especially with the running. |
| 2008-12-04 12:15 PM in reply to: #1838604 |
Master 1240 Knightdale/Raleigh | Subject: RE: What Is Base Building Training? JohnnyKay - 2008-12-04 1:02 PM trimore - 2008-12-04 12:16 PM So with all these differing opinions, how is a newby such as myself supposed to decide what to do????????? I am just about to get back to running and biking after taking some time off to repair a few injuries. I thought I should be starting a base as I am about 12 weeks from my 1st even of 2009 (a 15k run) and want to do better in 2009. It will be my 2nd season. You should start back slowly and relatively easily. Especially with the running. Especially because you have had some injuries. |
| 2008-12-04 12:37 PM in reply to: #1838624 |
Expert 934 FL | Subject: RE: What Is Base Building Training? DMarkSwan - 2008-12-04 1:15 PM JohnnyKay - 2008-12-04 1:02 PM trimore - 2008-12-04 12:16 PM So with all these differing opinions, how is a newby such as myself supposed to decide what to do????????? I am just about to get back to running and biking after taking some time off to repair a few injuries. I thought I should be starting a base as I am about 12 weeks from my 1st even of 2009 (a 15k run) and want to do better in 2009. It will be my 2nd season. You should start back slowly and relatively easily. Especially with the running. Especially because you have had some injuries. Of course, but you see my point. There is obvioulsy no one path to success on this stuff. We can argue the fine points for sure but the reality is that there will likely never be a concensus and even if there was it would change next week with some new study or theory. |
| 2008-12-04 12:40 PM in reply to: #1834385 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: What Is Base Building Training? Well, I think there is a common element running through all the comments which is the key to long term training success is gradually increasing your volume over time so your body can handel the work load and the only way to do that is get out and start training!  |
| 2008-12-04 1:02 PM in reply to: #1838669 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: What Is Base Building Training? bryancd - 2008-12-04 1:40 PM Well, I think there is a common element running through all the comments which is the key to long term training success is gradually increasing your volume over time so your body can handel the work load and the only way to do that is get out and start training! EXACTLY!!!! Most of these arguments are on the "fine points". You can probably reach 80-90% of your potential without anything fancy or needing to understand things like LT, FTP, z3, etc. Get out there and do work. Day after day. Week after week. Month after month. Year after year. Nothing sexy. Nothing complicated. Some may call it boring. For most people here, that means emphasizing consistency and volume over intensity at least until you bump up to whatever your personal time constraints are. Utilizing "some" intensity will likely be helpful along the way which is why following an appropriate training plan, using a coach, and/or understanding some of the physiology involved can be useful in figuring out how to define "some" for yourself.
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| 2008-12-04 3:07 PM in reply to: #1838669 |
| Extreme Veteran 454 OKC | Subject: RE: What Is Base Building Training? bryancd - 2008-12-04 12:40 PM Well, I think there is a common element running through all the comments which is the key to long term training success is gradually increasing your volume over time so your body can handel the work load and the only way to do that is get out and start training! Due to how loosely terminology is used in coaching (i.e. the anaerobic energy system vs. "anaerobic threshold"), I try to look past that and focus on the principles underlying the plans themselves. I find what all of these guys (Gordo... Hadd before him... and ultimately Lydiard) are getting at, is the so-called 2nd wave of change: an increase in skeletal muscle aerobic capacity; additional mitochondria, new capillaries, muscle fiber conversion. aka increasing lactate threshold. As the Coggan chart shows, short & hard interval training is not the best way to approach this... what's needed are long intervals and steady-state conditioning. |
| 2008-12-04 3:32 PM in reply to: #1838663 |
Expert 2547 The Woodlands, TX | Subject: RE: What Is Base Building Training? trimore - 2008-12-04 12:37 PM DMarkSwan - 2008-12-04 1:15 PM JohnnyKay - 2008-12-04 1:02 PM trimore - 2008-12-04 12:16 PM So with all these differing opinions, how is a newby such as myself supposed to decide what to do????????? I am just about to get back to running and biking after taking some time off to repair a few injuries. I thought I should be starting a base as I am about 12 weeks from my 1st even of 2009 (a 15k run) and want to do better in 2009. It will be my 2nd season. You should start back slowly and relatively easily. Especially with the running. Especially because you have had some injuries. Of course, but you see my point. There is obvioulsy no one path to success on this stuff. We can argue the fine points for sure but the reality is that there will likely never be a concensus and even if there was it would change next week with some new study or theory. Agree. That is why I keep saying that this is an art more than it is a science. For every example of some training approach I can show an example of the opposite and visa versa. If it's as easy as true or false b/c of some science test then we would all train the same. The various theories have some level of science (or just testing) to back it, but that's about it. My motto to a newbie, or anyone for that matter is Volume and Time. Lots of work over a period of years. That's it. And make sure you enjoy it. Because the mind and motivation are never part of these tests. I hadn't seen that Coggan pdf that someone posted and enjoyed. Plan on reading some of the other links when I get home and am not blocked from everything. |
| 2008-12-04 3:41 PM in reply to: #1838971 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: What Is Base Building Training? lrobb - 2008-12-04 3:07 PM I think intervals are irrelevant, those are just a way to structure a training sessiom, what the Coggan's chart clearly indicates is that training a different intensities produces different adaptations and the bigger gains (and most important for endurance athletes) are those experienced at Tempo, Threshold and VO2 max pace/power.bryancd - 2008-12-04 12:40 PM Well, I think there is a common element running through all the comments which is the key to long term training success is gradually increasing your volume over time so your body can handel the work load and the only way to do that is get out and start training! Due to how loosely terminology is used in coaching (i.e. the anaerobic energy system vs. "anaerobic threshold" , I try to look past that and focus on the principles underlying the plans themselves. I find what all of these guys (Gordo... Hadd before him... and ultimately Lydiard) are getting at, is the so-called 2nd wave of change: an increase in skeletal muscle aerobic capacity; additional mitochondria, new capillaries, muscle fiber conversion. aka increasing lactate threshold. As the Coggan chart shows, short & hard interval training is not the best way to approach this... what's needed are long intervals and steady-state conditioning. |
| 2008-12-04 3:56 PM in reply to: #1839034 |
| Extreme Veteran 454 OKC | Subject: RE: What Is Base Building Training? Jorge, I'm not sure what point you are making, but interval structure matters a great deal. Did you read that link I posted? That is the MAPP site, written by a UT-Austin certified PhD physiologist and endurance-exercise researcher. He's the one that did that famous study on German rowers that got a lot of forum attention. Doing a hard 6 x 1'(3') L6 or 5 x 3'(3') L5 session is not the best way to induce the changes that are of the most benefit to all endurance athletes: the changes in metabolic fitness I listed above. The Coggan chart shows this visually. Now, whether you want to quibble over which range is "aerobic", I'd just remind you that zones are man-made, and all the body cares about is where the energy is coming from and how it has to adapt to the workload. But you already know that, so that's why I don't understand your point. |
| 2008-12-04 4:44 PM in reply to: #1839063 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: What Is Base Building Training? lrobb - 2008-12-04 3:56 PM Jorge, I'm not sure what point you are making, but interval structure matters a great deal. Did you read that link I posted? That is the MAPP site, written by a UT-Austin certified PhD physiologist and endurance-exercise researcher. He's the one that did that famous study on German rowers that got a lot of forum attention. Doing a hard 6 x 1'(3') L6 or 5 x 3'(3') L5 session is not the best way to induce the changes that are of the most benefit to all endurance athletes: the changes in metabolic fitness I listed above. The Coggan chart shows this visually. Now, whether you want to quibble over which range is "aerobic", I'd just remind you that zones are man-made, and all the body cares about is where the energy is coming from and how it has to adapt to the workload. But you already know that, so that's why I don't understand your point. I know the MAPP site and I am not quibbling. (but thank you for reminding me zones are man made ). The way I read your post seem to indicate that intervals are exclusively done for efforts relying on the anaerobic system and if that was the case then that’s incorrect; intervals are nothing more than a structure for a session that break downs intensity and rest. You can do intervals to induce adaptations at different intensities whether at steady, threshold or anaerobic pace/power. The point is that regardless of how you structure your sessions, what matter is what specific adaptation your are trying to achieve and the Coggan table clearly indicates how devoting time to increase your pace/power at tempo and threshold is something all endurance athletes should work into their plan (some more than others). |
| 2008-12-04 6:06 PM in reply to: #1834385 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: What Is Base Building Training? I think it is also important to qualify what it is you are training for. A Sprint, Olympic, and even a Half require a different type of specificity vs. an Ironman which will impact the time training spent at various levels of intensity vs. those designed to ensure long course endurance. |
| 2008-12-04 6:46 PM in reply to: #1834385 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: What Is Base Building Training? Wow, I just went back and looked at my old VO2 test data to see what my "zones" actually were. On 6/6/06 my HR zones were: Zone 1- 88-110 Zone 2- 111-124 Zone 3- 125-139 Zone 4- 140-153 Zone 5- 154-Max HR (max was 178) Aet was 128, AT was 46 With this data, my coach had me train for 9 months, run and bike, using a 138-148 "aerobic" HR target for BOTH run and bike. I spent MONTHS in what was a blended Zone 3 and Zone 4 based on my run data. On the run it was easy, on the bike it was hard. On 1/11/07, he tested me again: Zone 1- 97-122 Zone 2- 123-138 Zone 3- 139-154 Zone 4- 155-170 Zone 5- 170-Max (Max is 181) I continued to train "aerobic" at 138-148 and he brought in speed work as I built towards IMAZ in April of that year. Man, my coach is a sadist but got the result I wanted. I DO NOT recomend this for anyone who is new or not coached, but it's amazing how hard I went doing what I thought was base at the beginning and how my body responded. My advice? GET A COACH. I never would have done that on my own, even with the knowledge I have now, but it worked. |
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