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"Just Swim" (Page 2)
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 2009-07-31 1:19 PM in reply to: #2319366 |
Expert  2547    The Woodlands, TX |  Subject: RE: "Just Swim"bryancd - 2009-07-31 10:08 AM LOL! Swimming slow and long makes you great....at swimming slow and long!  Oops, Sorry Mike. I meant X2 on this statement. ^^^^  |
| 2009-07-31 1:39 PM in reply to: #2319918 |
| Regular 94 Seattle | Subject: RE: "Just Swim" louiskie - 2009-07-31 1:03 PM charlieq - 2009-07-31 12:59 PM LOL! Swimming slow and long makes you great....at swimming slow and long! To answer the OP, I just get in and swim. For an OWS, or pool swim, I just look at the watch and swim non stop for 40 - 45 mins. I agree that swimming slow and long makes you great at swimming slow and long which can be a good thing if you are treating the swim as a means to get to the bike. Having a swimming and water polo background my instinct is to get in the water and to go as hard as I can for as long as I can which usually does not leave a lot left for the bike or the run. This means that I actually spend a good amount of time reminding myself to slow down on the swim so that I am not burned out before getting to the bike (this is a lesson that I still need to apply for the bike in getting to the run). Bottom line is that everyone is different and as long as you have, or find, a system that works for you then it is good. I'd argue that swimming long and slow is not a good thing in a race unless you can't do anything else. Coming from a swimming/waterpolo background I'd assume you can swim pretty fast. Being able to swim long and fast is way better for a race. I don't see the point in going slow in the swim just to get to the bike fresh. Of course you don't want to wipe yourself out on the swim, but I think what many would argue is that if you spend your 30-60 mins in the pool doing intervals rather than a continuous, slow plod will make you faster, stronger and fitter and prepare you for a fast swim in your race, rather than a slow plod come race day. If you are used to swimming fast in practice, the race won't seem that different. Personally, I don't go to the pool to train to be slow...and I see the swim as a means to get to the bike, hopefully in front of more people than I am behind! I guess where I am coming from is that, for me, the effort required to go from a 1:30/100m to 1:20/100m is not worth the extra energy expended to gain the 2.5min for a 1500m swim when I have a 40km bike and at 10km run ahead of me. That being said, I am not usually in danger of winning anything. If I was then my thoughts would probably change. Also, slow is a relative thing. For me, I would rather swim 2000m with an average of 1:40/100m than swim 20x100 on 1:30 or 1:35. I guess I look at the long continuous swim in a similar manner that I look at the long run when marathon training. |
| 2009-07-31 1:55 PM in reply to: #2318986 |
Champion 10157  Alabama | Subject: RE: "Just Swim" I've trained for and completed 2 IMs and my swim training plan was this: just swim! I go to the pool, get in the water, hit the 'start' on my watch and swim. No drills, no paddles, no leg buoy, no leg drills, no warm-up, no cool down, no sets.....just get into my zone and swim. I love the feel of the water and I love to swim. If I set hard time goals and drills I wouldn't enjoy swimming as much....I think I'd dred going to the pool instead of looking forward to it. I'm sure if I did drills and such I could knock 15 minutes off my IM swim time....but it's not worth it to me. If I want to know 15 minutes off my IM time, I can do it much easier with more bike time in the saddle. ~Mike |
| 2009-07-31 2:11 PM in reply to: #2319321 |
Extreme Veteran 580 | Subject: RE: "Just Swim" smilford - 2009-07-31 9:55 AM intervals.. make your self hurt.. you won't be bored, just in pain.  Would love some suggestions ... |
| 2009-07-31 2:29 PM in reply to: #2320027 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: "Just Swim" charlieq - 2009-07-31 1:39 PM I guess I look at the long continuous swim in a similar manner that I look at the long run when marathon training. As well you should. When I train for a marathon, I run long and easy, I run tempo, I run intervals. No difference in the pool. Everyone keeps saying it's not worth it and yet would readily do different kinds of bike/run training. But they get in the pool, don't do the work and don't get better. if you are in the pool, why not take advantage of the time and do VARIABLE kinds of workouts. It doesn't require any more time, just some creativity and the desire to TRAIN as opposed to CRUISE. It doesn't matter where in the "pack" you are, all that matters is do you want to get better. |
| 2009-07-31 2:32 PM in reply to: #2320112 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: "Just Swim" irondreams - 2009-07-31 2:11 PM smilford - 2009-07-31 9:55 AM intervals.. make your self hurt.. you won't be bored, just in pain. Would love some suggestions ... Here's one I did the other day: Anaerobic Endurance 7B WU- 300S, 400 Pull 3x (4x100) on 2:00SI 1st 100(75 mod, 25 fast) 2nd 100(50 mod, 50 fast) 3rd 100(25 mod, 75 fast) 4th 100 Fast CD- 100 free/back You can do them on the 2:30SI if 2:00 doesn't give you at least :30-:40 recovery in between. Between each set of 4, give yourself a 1:00 bonus rest (after the 4th fast 100). This is a 2000 yard workout. |
| 2009-07-31 2:45 PM in reply to: #2320161 |
Champion 5376 PA | Subject: RE: "Just Swim" bryancd - 2009-07-31 3:32 PM irondreams - 2009-07-31 2:11 PM Here's one I did the other day: Anaerobic Endurance 7B WU- 300S, 400 Pull 3x (4x100) on 2:00SI 1st 100(75 mod, 25 fast) 2nd 100(50 mod, 50 fast) 3rd 100(25 mod, 75 fast) 4th 100 Fast CD- 100 free/back You can do them on the 2:30SI if 2:00 doesn't give you at least :30-:40 recovery in between. Between each set of 4, give yourself a 1:00 bonus rest (after the 4th fast 100). This is a 2000 yard workout.smilford - 2009-07-31 9:55 AM intervals.. make your self hurt.. you won't be bored, just in pain. Would love some suggestions ... That is sort of what I did last night. I got to the pool tired for some reason. I was just exhausted but I wanted to do something. My son was with me so we just took turns doing sprints. I would do 100 yds and he would just do 50. I'm pretty confident that he would like to do a kids tri next year so I'm encouraging him. I ended up doing at least 6 sets and I was freakin exhausted when I left. I felt like I didn't do much mentally but physically, I was drained. As for long continuous swims, I don't see how it couldn't help to constantly work on improving those too. I mean, if I were to go to the pool 4 times a week and constantly work on shaving time... then again, part of being a newb is focusing on building a strong base, right? Perhaps training changes as we progress. |
| 2009-07-31 2:46 PM in reply to: #2319366 |
Regular 102 | Subject: RE: "Just Swim" We all would like to go longer and faster. I think the question is this: What makes you go longer and faster? Is it to go long and slow, gradually building speed or to go fast and short, gradually building the distance |
| 2009-07-31 2:48 PM in reply to: #2318986 |
| Subject: RE: "Just Swim" I remember getting in for my first OWS this year and thinking "man, I don't have my open water arms yet." There is a benefit to doing the occasional long set. In the pool, I usually won't swim longer than a 1K, but even then it's part of a timed set. You need to get used to swimming for a long time if that's what your race requires. But just swimming all the time won't necessarily (probably won't) make you any faster. And it's kinda boring |
| 2009-07-31 2:55 PM in reply to: #2320186 |
Champion 5376 PA | Subject: RE: "Just Swim" goisles26 - 2009-07-31 3:46 PM LOL! Swimming slow and long makes you great....at swimming slow and long! We all would like to go longer and faster. I think the question is this: What makes you go longer and faster? Is it to go long and slow, gradually building speed or to go fast and short, gradually building the distance Well, yeah but sometimes the question is, "where the hell are my shoes?"  |
| 2009-07-31 2:58 PM in reply to: #2320190 |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: "Just Swim" ChrisM - 2009-07-31 2:48 PM But just swimming all the time won't necessarily (probably won't) make you any faster. And it's kinda boring
I resemble this statement! To a degree anyway. I have never done anything but swim and I have gotten about 25% faster in the last couple of years. But I agree that one will reach a plateau and will not continue to make gains if all they ever do is just swim. I think the biggest benefit to swimming long is a steady decrease in how tired I feel getting out of the water. At the and of the season I can swim 2 miles and not feel more tired than walking to the mailbox to check the mail. OK, maybe a little bit more. ~Mike |
| 2009-07-31 3:06 PM in reply to: #2320204 |
Extreme Veteran 614 | Subject: RE: "Just Swim" Pector55 - 2009-07-31 3:55 PM What makes you go longer and faster? According to a lot of spam emails I get in my gmail account every day, there are a lot of pills available. Oh wait, that's longer and harder. |
| 2009-07-31 3:10 PM in reply to: #2320186 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: "Just Swim" goisles26 - 2009-07-31 2:46 PM LOL! Swimming slow and long makes you great....at swimming slow and long! We all would like to go longer and faster. I think the question is this: What makes you go longer and faster? Is it to go long and slow, gradually building speed or to go fast and short, gradually building the distance The EXACT same thing that make you go longer faster in bike/run. Going long, going fast, going in between in your swim training....for the 10th time! If you can swim your race distance slowly, then it's time to work on pace, if you can't make it your race distance continously, it's time to work on distance. A lot of responses here are from folks who have no problem with the distance, they just don' want to work on pace...lots of good excuses though! Edited by bryancd 2009-07-31 3:14 PM |
| 2009-07-31 3:12 PM in reply to: #2320224 |
Expert 1296 | Subject: RE: "Just Swim" WelshinPhilly - 2009-07-31 4:06 PM Pector55 - 2009-07-31 3:55 PM What makes you go longer and faster? According to a lot of spam emails I get in my gmail account every day, there are a lot of pills available. Oh wait, that's longer and harder. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh Just spit all over my computer here at work. I was thinking pretty much the same thing or at least similar thoughts. |
| 2009-07-31 3:13 PM in reply to: #2319805 |
| Elite 3650 Laurium, MI | Subject: RE: "Just Swim" hussybowler5000 - 2009-07-31 1:30 PM I definitely "just swim." But I always have a purpose for my just swim (just like I have a purpose for each workout I do - although truth be told, sometimes I decide the purpose when I show up at the pool or river). . That's basically what I do. Every swim has a purpose, and I usually decide what that purpose is while I'm walking up the hill to the pool. Once I know what I'm targeting, I decide how far I want to go then start putting together sets in my head until I'm at distance. I also usually find that interval sets go by faster then long sets. The other day I accidentally did a 900 descend instead of a super 500; only catching the error when I decided to do a 900 descend today and started thinking about what it was. I completely lost 400 yards without noticing. |
| 2009-07-31 3:17 PM in reply to: #2320237 |
Extreme Veteran 1942 In front of computer when typing this. | Subject: RE: "Just Swim" bryancd - 2009-07-31 4:10 PM goisles26 - 2009-07-31 2:46 PM LOL! Swimming slow and long makes you great....at swimming slow and long! We all would like to go longer and faster. I think the question is this: What makes you go longer and faster? Is it to go long and slow, gradually building speed or to go fast and short, gradually building the distance Wait, wait, I don't understand. Are you saying to mix it up and work hard? Thats just crazy talk! |
| 2009-07-31 3:26 PM in reply to: #2319042 |
Veteran 126 | Subject: RE: "Just Swim" ray6foot7 - 2009-07-31 9:24 AM I always do a preset plan. I never just swim. My training partner and I hate the long straight set days (1 x 1500) BLAH! If we "just swam", I can't imagine that we would meet to swim very much longer. When people ask me the best way to lose weight or get in shape, my first piece of advice is to find something you enjoy doing. If you don't like doing it, eventually you will quit. If you feel like "just swimming", go for it. That is better for you than hitting the snooze button and making excuses why you won't be going to the pool today. Sure, there are certain training methods that are better than others, but the best method is the one that you will stick with. Triathlons and training are supposed to be enjoyable. Go do it how you want to. x2 |
| 2009-07-31 3:52 PM in reply to: #2320112 |
Master 2355 Houston, TX | Subject: RE: "Just Swim" irondreams - 2009-07-31 2:11 PM smilford - 2009-07-31 9:55 AM intervals.. make your self hurt.. you won't be bored, just in pain. Would love some suggestions ... I also see you are doing the clear lake tri, I will most certainly see you there. I did this the other day and really enjoyed it. You set a interval and that's when you push off for the next one. So for me I set it at 1:35/100 pace for all the intervals. You swim easier on the easy, but get less rest. Fast you swim quicker and get more rest. It's a tough workout if you pick the right interval time. 500 easy on 7:55 400 fast on 6:20 300 easy on 4:45 200 fast on 3:10 100 easy on 1:35 100 fast on 1:35 200 easy on 3:10 300 fast on 4:45 400 easy on 6:20 500 fast on 7:55 Here is another one I just did that I came up with based off a really big/hard workout I did a couple weeks earlier. For the two sets of 5x100 pick a interval that will give you 10-15s rest (I was getting about 13) and then on the 3x100 take 5s away. 200s are just fast, fast.. with about a minute rest 500 wu 5x100 @ 1:35 200 fast 3x100 @ 1:30 200 fast 50swim/200kick/50swim 200 fast 5x100 @ 1:35 200 fast 200 cd Both of these workouts went by really fast and hurt at the same time. Edited by smilford 2009-07-31 4:00 PM |
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