Pacing an IM Marathon
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2009-08-10 1:59 PM |
Extreme Veteran 580 | Subject: Pacing an IM Marathon With IMFL less than 90 days away, I am spending more time thinking about race day execution. I am going to attempt to run the entire marathon but I am having a hard time trying to figure out what pace I should aim for. I ran a stand alone marathon in January in 3:57 and averaged sub 10:00s (9:36, I think) in my last HIM (with gas left in the tank at the end). I ran the marathon at a consistent pace for the nearly the entire 26 miles, right around 9:04s. I was spent at the end! In my last HIM, I didn’t push as hard as I probably could have because I didn’t want to blow up and I knew that if I ran sub-10:00s I would break 6 hours for the race, and that was more important to me than my run time. I recognize that it will be important to listen to my body come race day and adapt as needed, but I also know that finding a consistent, steady and maintainable pace will be equally as important in determining whether I am able to run the entire marathon. My plan is to wear my Garmin and use it to help me stay on pace. I find as I race that the beginning of the run I am usually running faster than I should be and am slower than I should be at the end. My Garmin helps me pace better and keeps me from burning too many matches as the beginning and it keeps me honest so when I am getting tired at the end, I can look at my Garmin and know that despite my higher perceived effort, I need to pick it up. How did you determine your IM marathon pace? Any recommendations for me? Thanks for the advice! |
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2009-08-10 2:14 PM in reply to: #2339191 |
Champion 5781 Northridge, California | Subject: RE: Pacing an IM Marathon Interesting question and one I don't remember seeing addressed here. I'm looking forward to the responses from the more experienced folks. My target pace for my IM run was based on what I considered to be my "all day" run pace, which was 45+ sec/mile slower than my standalone mary pace (~9:15 vs 8:28). I ended up going into the race with a non-training injury which ultimately precluded my running the whole thing, but I did get through about 16.3 miles before the injury locked up completely and was not too far off that pace--I was heading fairly comfortably for about 4:20 for the run vs. my standalone mary of 3:42. I've heard anecdotally that a lot of IM runs are about 30 mins slower than a person's standalone mary. |
2009-08-10 2:21 PM in reply to: #2339191 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Pacing an IM Marathon Essentially, your "easy" running pace is probably a good target for your IM marathon. This assumes that you have good swim & bike fitness and that you've paced those appropriately as well. Check this table out for a decent stab at it. |
2009-08-10 2:36 PM in reply to: #2339191 |
Extreme Veteran 495 Horse Country | Subject: RE: Pacing an IM Marathon Determining your Ironman run pace is an interesting experiment, particularly because you will be walking. I know you WANT to run the whole thing, but few and far between are people that actually run it door to door. You may hear the add :30 minutes quoted as a means of determining your run leg from a full marathon time, but that did not apply in my case. I turned in a 11:23 in my first IM by running a 4:20 marathon, which in hindsight I was suffering from going out on the bike too hard. I ended up averaging 9:53's which was about 2:20 per mile slower than my marathon time! This is not good FYI Below are two links, one which gives a good overview on race tactics and one which will calculate a project time based on training volume and recent time trial performances. I have found the calculator to be fairly accurate. http://www.endurancecoach.com/Ironman_Race_Tactics.htm http://www.triathloncalculator.com/
Edited by grit_nugget 2009-08-10 2:40 PM |
2009-08-10 4:02 PM in reply to: #2339302 |
Extreme Veteran 580 | Subject: RE: Pacing an IM Marathon grit_nugget - 2009-08-10 2:36 PM Determining your Ironman run pace is an interesting experiment, particularly because you will be walking. I know you WANT to run the whole thing, but few and far between are people that actually run it door to door. You may hear the add :30 minutes quoted as a means of determining your run leg from a full marathon time, but that did not apply in my case. I turned in a 11:23 in my first IM by running a 4:20 marathon, which in hindsight I was suffering from going out on the bike too hard. I ended up averaging 9:53's which was about 2:20 per mile slower than my marathon time! This is not good FYI Below are two links, one which gives a good overview on race tactics and one which will calculate a project time based on training volume and recent time trial performances. I have found the calculator to be fairly accurate. http://www.endurancecoach.com/Ironman_Race_Tactics.htm http://www.triathloncalculator.com/ I have tried the triathlon calculator before, but I must be doing something wrong because I get weird results! Any tips on how to get better results from the calculator, would be great! The Tactics link is great, thanks for sharing! The link to the ST was helpful too! Edited by irondreams 2009-08-10 4:03 PM |
2009-08-10 4:51 PM in reply to: #2339265 |
Champion 5781 Northridge, California | Subject: RE: Pacing an IM Marathon JohnnyKay - 2009-08-10 12:21 PM Essentially, your "easy" running pace is probably a good target for your IM marathon. This assumes that you have good swim & bike fitness and that you've paced those appropriately as well. Check this table out for a decent stab at it. Great link...thanks. Puts me in a range of 3:56-4:12...my stretch goal going in was 3:55 and my realistic target was 4:10 or less, so the values in the table are right in line with my expectations had I not been injured. |
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2009-08-12 9:26 AM in reply to: #2339191 |
Champion 6962 Atlanta, Ga | Subject: RE: Pacing an IM Marathon Note that your mileage may vary, but when I am training for my IM marathon, I pace it like a normal marathon in training. ie, if I have a marathon pace run scheduled, I run it at open marathon pace not IM marathon pace. This, I believe, puts me in better shape for the slowdown that will eventually happen at IM. My effort will produce a slower mile time after the 'warm up' of the bike and swim but my fitness will be there. I have yet to run any of my long runs at IM marathon goal pace. And my coach hasn't yelled at me yet. So...there you go. |
2009-08-12 11:15 AM in reply to: #2339191 |
Extreme Veteran 580 | Subject: RE: Pacing an IM Marathon I am not running any of my runs at my IM Mary pace right now either ... I was trying to decide what pace I should start the run at and then go from there. I don't want to start too fast and I would ideally like to keep as consistent of a pace as possible. |
2009-08-12 6:01 PM in reply to: #2339191 |
Extreme Veteran 428 | Subject: RE: Pacing an IM Marathon I had always planned to take the 1st quarter of my IM ride and run real easy. After cramping in the swim I was sore and very tentatve about the rest of the day so took them both even easier then I planned to. Ended up EXACTLY with even splits on both the ride and run. The first quarter feels stupidly slow and easy but it pays off. Gerrard |
2009-08-12 7:19 PM in reply to: #2339191 |
Mesa | Subject: RE: Pacing an IM Marathon Just remember your bike fitness will account to any type of pacing that you want to do on the run. It doesn't matter how well you can run if you can't run well when you get off the 112 mile bike course. |
2009-08-12 7:52 PM in reply to: #2339191 |
Veteran 167 Grosse Pointe Woods, MI | Subject: RE: Pacing an IM Marathon I am very much a newbie, having only 1 yr of tris and one 'just hoping to finish' HIM, but here is my $0.02: Don't forget to factor in the heat (as in weather) if it is much different than where you train. I live and train in Michigan and did the Florida 70.3 this May. The change in latitude added more than 20 minutes to my predicted run time (and my bike and swim times were, almost to the minute, what I had anticipated.) |
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2009-08-12 10:02 PM in reply to: #2339596 |
Champion 7595 Columbia, South Carolina | Subject: RE: Pacing an IM Marathon irondreams - 2009-08-10 5:02 PM I have tried the triathlon calculator before, but I must be doing something wrong because I get weird results! Any tips on how to get better results from the calculator, would be great! X2. It tells me that my bike split will be negative. Now, that would be a neat trick! |
2009-08-13 8:04 AM in reply to: #2339191 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Pacing an IM Marathon I wrote an article last year about how to determine run race pace just click here In summary: you need to do a test to get a benchmark for yuor current fitness level, get your training zones, TRAIN, use the info on th article to get potential race pace, do race rehearsals to tweak race pace, execute on race day, and RACE! |
2009-08-13 10:06 AM in reply to: #2345707 |
Extreme Veteran 580 | Subject: RE: Pacing an IM Marathon JorgeM - 2009-08-13 8:04 AM I wrote an article last year about how to determine run race pace just click here In summary: you need to do a test to get a benchmark for yuor current fitness level, get your training zones, TRAIN, use the info on th article to get potential race pace, do race rehearsals to tweak race pace, execute on race day, and RACE! This is aweome, Jorge, thank you! Separately, I also thought that I would input my Gulf Coast HIM run time in the McMillian calculator (my training buddy's idea) to see what marathon pace it would spit out. I ran that run fairly conservatively and felt great when I crossed the finish line. It gave me a marathon time of 4:23, which is a pace of 10:04, EXACTLY one minute slower than my stand alone mary pace. These are all good data points which will help me determine my race day strategy. I am training consistently on the bike so I do not feel as though my bike fitness will be a limiting factor for my IM run. I am also planning to go a bit easier on the bike than usual. |
2009-08-13 10:20 AM in reply to: #2339191 |
Expert 1074 Madison, MS | Subject: RE: Pacing an IM Marathon When I did IMFL last year, I was pretty much in the same situation. Not sure what to expect from the run. My most recent standalone marathon had been a 4:09, but I had not performed that well on the run in any of the 3 HIMs I did in the 18 months leading up to IMFL. So, I based my anticipated pace on my HIM times and figured I would run the marathon at IMFL in about 6 hours. My swim was exactly what I had planned for. My bike was right in the time I had targeted. I ran the marathon 1 hour faster than I thought I would! When I got off the bike, I figured running would be tough, but I felt great, and took off at quite a good pace (for me). Initially, I had a brief conversation with myself about slowing down and saving something for the end, but then, discarded that idea as the easy way out, and decided I would run as strongly as I could for as long as I could (and walking through the aid stations). I hit the halfway mark around 15 minutes faster than I had run the same distance in any of my HIMs! I wish I could have kept it up, but I definitely started to slow down on the second half and my legs were screaming at me; however, I kept right on running. I did the marathon in 4:56:xx, exceeding all of my expectations. So, I say have some idea of what you think it might be based on your other races, but be prepared to perform better (or, perhaps, worse). Looking at your times, I would target a 10 min/mile pace, which, for you, should be pretty comfortable. If you feel you can run faster, then I say go for it. A lot will depend on how you feel getting off of the bike. And have a great, great race! Edited by kvesey 2009-08-13 10:21 AM |
2009-08-14 10:32 AM in reply to: #2339191 |
Elite 5316 Alturas, California | Subject: RE: Pacing an IM Marathon IM mary pace = open mary pace - 30 min and keep the miles at simlar splits... gtg, kick at the end if you are up for it, be wary of the sprint in the last hundred yards if you haven't been building a kick from a mile out or so (calf cramp ahhrrgg). |
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