NC Bike law change
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2010-05-11 12:25 PM |
Master 9705 Raleigh, NC area | Subject: NC Bike law change I don't know if any of you have been following this or not but apparently there is a proposal to change the NC bicycle laws to the following: Bicyclists riding bicycles upon a street or highway shall not ride more than two abreast, except on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles. Persons riding two abreast shall not impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic and, on a laned roadway, shall ride within a single lane. Persons riding two abreast shall move into a single file formation as quickly as is practicable when being overtaken from the rear by a faster moving vehicle. Of course, for practical purposes, that means that if there is pretty much any traffic at all, single file riding would be the rule of law. Furthermore, I don't know that it solves the perceived problem. On any road where motorists can use the next lane to overtake and can see the bicyclists from far enough behind to merge around them, riding side by side inconveniences nobody and is reasonably safe. If the motorist cannot see around the cyclists, how is this different that if they encountered a school bus, a mail carrier, golf cart or other slow moving vehicle? There is an article in today's N&O about it. |
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2010-05-11 1:02 PM in reply to: #2851497 |
Expert 987 Durham, North Carolina | Subject: RE: NC Bike law change Just how much of a change from the current law is this? Not sure what the current law says, but I was under the impression that a cyclist has just as much right to the roadway as an automobile, and that technically if a car is unable to safely and legally move over into the other lane to pass by a cyclist then they are supposed to wait until they are able to do so. The way this new law is being written, it makes it seem as if cyclists no longer have a right to use the roadway, or rather that we aren't considered "equals" anymore and no longer have "just as much right to the road as any other vehicle" and now makes it sound like cyclists are to just be "tolerated" out on the roads, but if an approaching vehicle comes up behind a cyclist then the cyclist has to move over, create single file, whatever ... so to not "impede" or "inconvenience" a car. That just sounds like trouble and a slippery slope to me ... any drivers out there already "upset" with cyclists who read this article are just going to justify themselves even more in their attitudes or "cyclists don't belong on the roads and are supposed to move over or go off onto the shoulder whenever cars come by ...." Don't like the change at all ..... Edited by klowman 2010-05-11 1:04 PM |
2010-05-11 1:09 PM in reply to: #2851607 |
Master 9705 Raleigh, NC area | Subject: RE: NC Bike law change The two abreast moving to single file requirement is new. As a practical matter, in small groups, this is done anyway but in larger groups this is not generally done (and with larger groups, it's not practical). |
2010-05-11 1:12 PM in reply to: #2851497 |
Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
2010-05-11 1:21 PM in reply to: #2851644 |
Expert 987 Durham, North Carolina | Subject: RE: NC Bike law change HumanVelocity - 2010-05-11 2:12 PMNC law also say's that lane sharing is illegal, ie Where a motorcycle passes between two cars. Anyone in California will know what I mean. So technically, two cyclists riding side by side is lane sharing, and is technically illegal in NC anyway, so whay change the law, when it already is illegal. But then again, drinking and driving, texting and driving is illegal as well, so oh well. Kinda exactly my point ... lane sharing is supposed to already be illegal ... but I think lots of leniency was always given to cyclists ... but more to my point ... if an automobile is not able to "safely" and "legally" over over into the other lane in order to pass by a cyclist, then the vehicle is supposed to wait until they are able to do so. This behavior of them moving out just a few feet to the left of the cyclist (and where they are still halfway in the same lane as the cyclist and halfway into the next lane over) ... would technically be considered "lane sharing" and would technically be illegal .... but they do it anyhow. Again, I think police give driver's a lot of leniency on this just as they do cyclist's riding 2 abreast .... I can see how a car can safely pass a cyclist by just moving over half a lane, if indeed this does leave about 3 feet or more between the vehicle and the cyclist (and they should also slow up some, etc ...) .... But, the point is ... a cyclist-hating driver reading this proposed change is just going to think even more that they are justified in "buzzing" cyclists and hating them, having that "rage" and belieiving we don't belong on the roads ... etc ... is what I'm worried about. Edited by klowman 2010-05-11 1:26 PM |
2010-05-11 1:21 PM in reply to: #2851644 |
Expert 987 Durham, North Carolina | Subject: RE: NC Bike law change Weird, Edited by klowman 2010-05-11 1:27 PM |
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2010-05-11 2:27 PM in reply to: #2851497 |
Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
2010-05-11 5:29 PM in reply to: #2851893 |
Master 1741 Chapel Hill, NC | Subject: RE: NC Bike law change |
2010-05-14 9:11 AM in reply to: #2851497 |
Expert 1342 Apex, NC | Subject: RE: NC Bike law change I just sent the following to both my Representative and Senator:
Good morning. I am writing to you today to voice my opinion regarding the amendment of GS 20-171.3, regarding the operation of bicycles on the public roadway.
I am a 37 year-old college-educated, locally-employed, 12-year resident of Apex, and I am also a cyclist, runner, and triathlete. I exercise and train on the streets, sidewalks, greenways, trails, and roadways of Apex, as well as greater Wake, Harnett, and Lee Counties. In all my time cycling (for the last 7 years in Apex), I normally ride with a core group of no more than 8 other cyclists (when I’m not riding alone, which I do 75% of the time). We are safe, courteous, and normally ride no more than 2-abreast (most times single file). I have participated in group charity rides of well over 500 people, as well as group recreational rides in the 20-40 cyclist range, that normally are 2-abreast at maximum. What does happen on occasion is that the person (or people) at the front of the group get tired, and need to fall back into the pack to rest. When this happens, the normally 2-abreast line of cyclists momentarily becomes 3 or even 4-abreast (until the lead cyclists reach the end of the line).
I consider myself a very safe cyclist (I am married with 2 young children, and am the primary bread-winner for my family), and I cycle because it is fun, it keeps me healthy, and it allows for a great stress relief from everyday work pressures. Legislation that makes this past-time (and part of a healthy way of life) unsafe for me and a large number of my friends makes me want to take action.
The proposed amendment reads: SECTION 1. Chapter 20 of the General Statutes is amended by adding a
In short, I believe this amendment will further escalate tensions between motorists and road cyclists (both parties already with bad habits on the roadways), and will lead to an increase in injuries and fatalities suffered by cyclists. Current legislation allows for some “courtesy” to exist between cyclists and motorists.
What this amendment will do is this (copying some text from a more-eloquent friend):
It makes it illegal for cyclists to:
- ride more than two abreast, even temporarily (like dropping off the front of an already two-abreast ride) and even if the road is totally empty,
- ride more than one abreast when there is faster car traffic on the road. If you're on the front of a two-abreast ride, you're there for good, and if fast cyclists encounter slow cyclists, they *can't* pass, so that cars *can*
- "impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic," thereby letting us know what the bill's authors think of bike traffic -- we're unnormal and unreasonable
For the first time *ever* in NC vehicle law, the amendment would:
- create a special sub-class of vehicle users, namely cyclists, with more limited rights than other classes. The rest of the vehicle code treats all road users the same, with the same rights and responsibilities. - revoke cyclists' rights to the full lane when needed, with no qualifications mentioned for safety, lane conditions, whether we're about to take a left turn, or any of the other nuances in similar parts of the vehicle code. - place the responsibility to ensure that a pass is safe on the overtaken vehicle (the cyclist) rather than the overtaking one - penalize vehicle operators (cyclists) for their behavior as a group rather than individuals: cars aren't required to make sure that other cars follow the speed limits, but cyclists would be required to make sure that other riders move over, or the entire group is punished
Some of the things the amendment outlines are, indeed, examples of good road courtesy on the part of cyclists, but there's a reason we don't usually try to legislate courtesy -- legislation is too heavy-handed a tool for this application. What we're really seeing, it seems to me, is an ignorance on behalf of the bill's author (a retired auto dealer) to acknowledge that two- or even three-abreast often *is* the safest and easiest way -- for cars as well as cyclists -- to co-exist on the road. Instead of trying to understand that by entering into the cyclists' position on the road, they're trying to legislate us off the road.
I welcome any discussion you would like to have regarding this amendment, and road-cycling in general. While I agree that both cyclists and motorists can stand to improve their road manners towards each other, I do not believe the proposed amendment is the solution.
Thank you for your time. |
2010-05-14 10:36 AM in reply to: #2851497 |
Master 1517 Raleigh | Subject: RE: NC Bike law change here here! nice note! |
2010-05-14 11:57 AM in reply to: #2858884 |
Master 9705 Raleigh, NC area | Subject: RE: NC Bike law change +1 I wrote my state senator and representative yesterday as well. Nelson Dollar is one of mine and he's on the Transportation committee. I hope that helps. |
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2010-05-15 8:21 AM in reply to: #2851497 |
Veteran 271 Greensboro,NC | Subject: RE: NC Bike law change I got the following reply from our state representative-Pricey Harrison: "hey john- i agree that the bill is bad and I think it is too controversial to pass in the short session was just at a cycling event in raleigh and that community is organizing against the bill i talked to its sponsor, Nelson Cole, about fixing it to be more cyclist friendly and he is open to it. Thanks for being in touch Cheers Pricey" |
2010-05-16 8:41 PM in reply to: #2858574 |
Expert 1342 Apex, NC | Subject: RE: NC Bike law change Got these replies: This bill received considerable discussion in the Transportation Oversight Committee. It will have a difficult time in the House, based on the questions and comments.
I will not support it.
Richard Stevens |
2010-05-17 11:42 AM in reply to: #2862147 |
Master 9705 Raleigh, NC area | Subject: RE: NC Bike law change I heard back from Nelson Dollar today. He said: I am not a fan of HB 1686 as written. I think this issue/bill needs more work including the involvement of the cycling community. For example, how quickly can a group of 20 riders on a Saturday morning safely move into one single-file line? Then you have a longer line of vehicles to pass if you're a motorist. This needs a lot more thought / work before we change the current law. Thank you for sharing your concerns regarding this issue. |
2010-05-17 3:50 PM in reply to: #2851497 |
Expert 987 Durham, North Carolina | Subject: RE: NC Bike law change Well, this is encouraging. At least there are a couple of politicians who are at least willing to think this through some more and give the bill more consideration and/or modification before trying to enact it into law. |
2010-05-17 10:00 PM in reply to: #2851497 |
Expert 1146 Johns Creek, Georgia | Subject: RE: NC Bike law change Well I think we have a future legislator on our hands folks. Nice job on the letter! Now that I can vote in Georgia and NC, I will certainly cast all my votes appropriately and with monetary consideration. |
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2010-05-21 11:18 AM in reply to: #2851497 |
Extreme Veteran 413 Clayton/Raleigh, North Carolina | Subject: RE: NC Bike law change That is pretty impressive that you actually got a response back and they actually listened! |
2010-05-21 12:43 PM in reply to: #2851497 |
Master 1704 Charlotte | Subject: RE: NC Bike law change You can write the sponsor of the bill here: [email protected] You can also ask him about quote: Cole added that drivers pay for roads, not cyclists. "Bicyclists are not licensed," Cole said. "Bicycles have no fees, no registration attached to them. I think they should be a little more considerate of the people that are driving." |