Best race of my life unitill USAT got done with me... (Page 3)

I don't believe there is anything in the rukles that you can't double pass.  I think it was more that the official looked at it as he was blocking because he did not execute the pass within 15 seconds.  I've done this same thing he has (talking while making a pass) but I've never been penalized. 

The rukles only cover what you do on unicycles while wearing clown makeup.  I think he is talking about the rules.

my misunderstanding...NM. 

My point EXACTLY.  USAT didn't do anything wrong here...the OP did.

RT:

The 15 sec clock stops when you complete the pass.  That means you go back over to the right.  So no, it does not restart with each front wheel you pass unless you move in front of that person.

The proper thing would be to pass, come over and rest for 10ish seconds and then pass the second person. 

Wow, that's interesting.  I had assumed that it was 15 per person, not 15 seconds "not on the right" at a time.  For others that also officiate, is this also how you enforce the rule?

I would have too.  What if you are passing someone who is drafting against the rules?  Shove yourself into the small gap?  Keep going by?  Is drafting, thereby preventing someone from being able to pass with 15 seconds, a form of blocking as well?  Even if someone is riding the legal 7 meters (?) behind another, seems kind of dangerous to require the passer to pop into that space......

In my case I was talking to another bicyclist while riding on the left side of him.  This went on for about 30 seconds, at that time i passed.  The USAT official said I had 15 seconds to get my front wheel in advance of his.  At that time he would need to back off and let me over.  Who knows, thats why I asked.  This was my first penalty in all of my races. 


Wow I started a S@@@ storm....  Im sorry.......

That's a wrong interpretation, Dan. Go back and read the rules (5.10h). The pass is completed upon overtaking, not by pulling back into the right.

As the rules state it, though, once overtaken, the onus is then on that rider to drop back the 7 meters before possibly entering the draft zone again to re-pass. Sucks, but thems the rules.

Yeah, I get the drop back part (i've done the drop back part... lots ), but if B is drafting off A - already breaking the rules - and you want to pass, B isn't going to drop off.  What do you do, especially if it's 2 or 3 guys that are drafting and you aren't going to pass in 15 seconds. 

Do you get a penalty for a 20 second pass if the drafter doesn't drop back?  Do you both get penalized? 

Ahem. Chalk. :p

John

In all things, safety is a paramount consideration. If you pass a rider, it is on THEM to drop back. The pass is completed as soon as the leading edge of your front wheel goes past their leading front edge. They must IMMEDIATELY drop back the 7m.

If you are passing 3 or 4 riders at once, you should not have to get to the right in between each one, unless remaining on the "outside" so to speak impedes another rider, or causes you to commit a lane violation. Simply complete your pass of all riders, and move to the right when safe. Position fouls where you are not to the right of the lane usually occur when a lone rider is riding near the center of the road in an otherwise safe area.

They must completely drop out of your drafting zone after being passed (2m wide, 7m long centered on the leading edge of the front wheel) before they can attempt a repass.

The OP's penalty could come under position, drafting or overtaking. Theoretically, if they were not even, and wheels kept sliding forward and back in relation to each other, both parties could have received multiple violations.

John

I understand the foul of the OP - that makes sense.

Why did Dan (Marvarnett) get a foul for double-passing?
This is the one I am not clear on...

That I couldn't tell you, as it is not a penalty that I would call. Dan completed the pass in 15 seconds, unless he was in the drafting zone of the second rider he was trying to pass for 17 seconds.

That may have been the explanation, he was in the drafting zone of rider A (the back rider) for less than 15 seconds, but since rider A was also drafting, he may have been in the drafting zone of rider B (the front rider) longer than was acceptable, since they have separate drafting zones. That would make sense with the explanation that he was given, but when I went through the cert class and subsequent triathlon as an official, nothing was said about having to move over after every pass.

If I was that ticky tack about the foul though, I would also tag Rider A for position as well as drafting, AND possibly blocking if he impeded Dan from moving over to the right.

John

What I would give to get near enough to anyone on a bike to either pass or draft.
. And I wouldn't care if they could spell or not!!

Maybe next season when I get a road bike instead of a mountain bike.

I think this thread is really interesting.

J

This was my understanding.  In general (this is just my understanding) you have 15 seconds from the time that you enter the draft zone.  So the 'double pass' could in principle take 30 seconds if the first rider that you pass is just behind the draft zone of the second rider.  So, the sequence of events is:  You enter draft zone of rider A and the 15s clock is started; the moment that you complete the pass (15s later) you enter the draft zone of rider B; another 15s clock starts.  Of course, as Chris said, if rider A is drafting rider B, then your total time to complete the double pass is less than 30 seconds.  But this seems perfectly fair -- you get 15s for each rider once you enter their draft zone; it's just that those 15s clocks overlap.

It is true that if A is drafting B, you can't, technically, legally, pass A then pull in behind B, because you've already entered B's draft zone and are obligated to pass.  But if A is drafting B, then they are going roughly the same speed, so why wouldn't you want to pass both of them anyway?