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2010-09-16 5:01 PM
in reply to: #3102980

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Buttercup
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Subject: RE: I'm curious about "hiking in Iran"
Johners - 2010-09-16 5:41 PM

  Except for the fluoride one. By the way, does your friend happen to be Archer, AKA Duchess?  Because he's, like, the only spy I know that walks around telling people he's a spy.


My friend is not a spy, never said he was. He is a soldier currently serving in Afghanistan. His 3 children are eager for his return.  He was dressed in his uniform the last time we met for lunch (just a few miles north of MacDill AFB and his office in Centcom). Other men stopped to thank him for his service and shake his hand. I'll ask him if he is Archer when he gets back from Afghanistan.

Of course, with free speech and all, you are free to mock him. It's a shame that gets placed at the doorsteps of liberals, however. This liberal would never deride their service or mock their experiences. I wager that if you were in their presence, you wouldn't dare do it either.



Edited by Renee 2010-09-16 5:07 PM


2010-09-16 5:06 PM
in reply to: #3103019

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Subject: RE: I'm curious about "hiking in Iran"
Renee - 2010-09-16 5:01 PM
Johners - 2010-09-16 5:41 PM

  Except for the fluoride one. By the way, does your friend happen to be Archer, AKA Duchess?  Because he's, like, the only spy I know that walks around telling people he's a spy.


My friend is not a spy, never said he was. He is a soldier currently serving in Afghanistan. His 3 children are eager for his return.  He was dressed in his uniform the last time we met for lunch (just a few miles north of MacDill AFB and his office in Centcom). Other men stopped to thank him for his service and shake his hand. I'll ask him if he is Archer when he gets back from Afghanistan.

Of course, with free speech and all, you are free to mock him. It's a shame that gets placed at the doorsteps of liberals, however. This liberal would never deride their service.




I'm not mocking him.  I'm poking fun at the fact that you keep referring to him as though he, individually, somehow substantiates your belief that, contrary to anything but blind supposition, that the folks that got caught are operatives. 

You, however, keep referring to him as a somehow relevant piece minutia in your argument, so if anyone is misusing him, if that's even happening, it's you.  Having a friend whose a veteran isn't an automatic "I'm right."  I have veteran friends, too, and they think those 3 guys are stupid - operative or no.

I'm sure your friend didn't anticipate he'd be used to advance an argument.  Over the internet.  So how about we reign in our righteous indignation a little bit and orient it towards the more deserving target here - you.

Edited by Johners 2010-09-16 5:14 PM
2010-09-16 5:08 PM
in reply to: #3099609

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Master
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Subject: RE: I'm curious about "hiking in Iran"
All I know is if we sent in Sade none of this mess would've happened.
2010-09-16 5:14 PM
in reply to: #3099609

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Champion
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Subject: RE: I'm curious about "hiking in Iran"
Might I suggest that everyone take a moment away and take a breath. 

No need for this discussion to become personal. 
2010-09-16 5:22 PM
in reply to: #3103042

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Subject: RE: I'm curious about "hiking in Iran"
drewb8 - 2010-09-16 3:08 PM All I know is if we sent in Sade none of this mess would've happened.


golf clap


Edited by ChrisM 2010-09-16 5:24 PM
2010-09-16 5:25 PM
in reply to: #3103036

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Buttercup
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Subject: RE: I'm curious about "hiking in Iran"
Johners - 2010-09-16 6:06 PM
Renee - 2010-09-16 5:01 PM
Johners - 2010-09-16 5:41 PM

  Except for the fluoride one. By the way, does your friend happen to be Archer, AKA Duchess?  Because he's, like, the only spy I know that walks around telling people he's a spy.


My friend is not a spy, never said he was. He is a soldier currently serving in Afghanistan. His 3 children are eager for his return.  He was dressed in his uniform the last time we met for lunch (just a few miles north of MacDill AFB and his office in Centcom). Other men stopped to thank him for his service and shake his hand. I'll ask him if he is Archer when he gets back from Afghanistan.

Of course, with free speech and all, you are free to mock him. It's a shame that gets placed at the doorsteps of liberals, however. This liberal would never deride their service.




I'm not mocking him.  I'm poking fun at the fact that you keep referring to him as though he, individually, somehow substantiates your belief that, contrary to anything but blind supposition, that the folks that got caught are operatives. 

You, however, keep referring to him as a somehow relevant piece minutia in your argument, so if anyone is misusing him, if that's even happening, it's you.  Having a friend whose a veteran isn't an automatic "I'm right."  I have veteran friends, too, and they think those 3 guys are stupid - operative or no.

I'm sure your friend didn't anticipate he's be used to advance an argument.  Over the internet.  So how about we reign in our righteous indignation a little bit and orient it towards the more deserving target here - you.



My examples were of real life events that illustrate the plausibility of 1) the fact that SF would be in the area 2) why they might be unarmed 3) cover stories are extremely basic 4) stuff happens, even to the elite.

How does your mocking tone and content refute any of that?

Your replies have been to mock and deride. You buy the story that they are (insert your disparaging qualifier here) hikers, fine. Talk about THAT.

Stupid - is that the word you used? Stupid operators. Yes, that's a solid case for how you aren't mocking them.

If I want to know how my colonel friend feels about my use of his story, I'll drop him a note on Facebook. Why would he care? He didn't divulge any secrets to me. He told me a story of how he got shot. As long as I don't ask his opinion about the "hikers" or mock the fact that they were captured, or speculate on their competence, I'm sure we'll remain friends.


Edited by Renee 2010-09-16 5:29 PM


2010-09-16 5:34 PM
in reply to: #3103058

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Subject: RE: I'm curious about "hiking in Iran"
jdwright56 - 2010-09-16 5:14 PM Might I suggest that everyone take a moment away and take a breath. 

No need for this discussion to become personal. 


I'm going to second that, or the whole thing will disappear shortly.
2010-09-16 5:35 PM
in reply to: #3103109

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Subject: RE: I'm curious about "hiking in Iran"
DerekL - 2010-09-16 3:34 PM
jdwright56 - 2010-09-16 5:14 PM Might I suggest that everyone take a moment away and take a breath. 

No need for this discussion to become personal. 


I'm going to second that, or the whole thing will disappear shortly.


like..... an operator in Iran????    spooky
2010-09-16 5:40 PM
in reply to: #3103112

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Subject: RE: I'm curious about "hiking in Iran"
ChrisM - 2010-09-16 5:35 PM
DerekL - 2010-09-16 3:34 PM
jdwright56 - 2010-09-16 5:14 PM Might I suggest that everyone take a moment away and take a breath. 

No need for this discussion to become personal. 


I'm going to second that, or the whole thing will disappear shortly.


like..... an operator in Iran????    spooky


Not supposed to talk about that, or else marmadaddy the boss might come for me next.
2010-09-16 5:43 PM
in reply to: #3103090

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Subject: RE: I'm curious about "hiking in Iran"
Renee - 2010-09-16 5:25 PM
Johners - 2010-09-16 6:06 PM
Renee - 2010-09-16 5:01 PM
Johners - 2010-09-16 5:41 PM

  Except for the fluoride one. By the way, does your friend happen to be Archer, AKA Duchess?  Because he's, like, the only spy I know that walks around telling people he's a spy.


My friend is not a spy, never said he was. He is a soldier currently serving in Afghanistan. His 3 children are eager for his return.  He was dressed in his uniform the last time we met for lunch (just a few miles north of MacDill AFB and his office in Centcom). Other men stopped to thank him for his service and shake his hand. I'll ask him if he is Archer when he gets back from Afghanistan.

Of course, with free speech and all, you are free to mock him. It's a shame that gets placed at the doorsteps of liberals, however. This liberal would never deride their service.




I'm not mocking him.  I'm poking fun at the fact that you keep referring to him as though he, individually, somehow substantiates your belief that, contrary to anything but blind supposition, that the folks that got caught are operatives. 

You, however, keep referring to him as a somehow relevant piece minutia in your argument, so if anyone is misusing him, if that's even happening, it's you.  Having a friend whose a veteran isn't an automatic "I'm right."  I have veteran friends, too, and they think those 3 guys are stupid - operative or no.

I'm sure your friend didn't anticipate he's be used to advance an argument.  Over the internet.  So how about we reign in our righteous indignation a little bit and orient it towards the more deserving target here - you.



My examples were of real life events that illustrate the plausibility of 1) the fact that SF would be in the area 2) why they might be unarmed 3) cover stories are extremely basic 4) stuff happens, even to the elite.

How does your mocking tone and content refute any of that?

Your replies have been to mock and deride. You buy the story that they are (insert your disparaging qualifier here) hikers, fine. Talk about THAT.

Stupid - is that the word you used? Stupid operators. Yes, that's a solid case for how you aren't mocking them.

If I want to know how my colonel friend feels about my use of his story, I'll drop him a note on Facebook. Why would he care? He didn't divulge any secrets to me. He told me a story of how he got shot. As long as I don't ask his opinion about the "hikers" or mock the fact that they were captured, or speculate on their competence, I'm sure we'll remain friends.


Let's just conclude that I think the hikers were goofy civilians with no governmental mandate for being there and you think they did.  Obviously, if there were there because they were operatives then they didn't have much choice, right?  But if they ended up where they were because a) they couldn't read a map and/or b) unrealistically expected the area to be safe then they're dumb.  Or at least did a very dumb thing. 

This way we can stop parsing what the other person is saying to presenting it in whatever light suits us because, frankly, this is borderline ridiculous.
2010-09-16 5:44 PM
in reply to: #3103118

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Subject: RE: I'm curious about "hiking in Iran"
DerekL - 2010-09-16 3:40 PM
ChrisM - 2010-09-16 5:35 PM
DerekL - 2010-09-16 3:34 PM
jdwright56 - 2010-09-16 5:14 PM Might I suggest that everyone take a moment away and take a breath. 

No need for this discussion to become personal. 


I'm going to second that, or the whole thing will disappear shortly.


like..... an operator in Iran????    spooky


Not supposed to talk about that, or else marmadaddy the boss might come for me next.


Now that you mention it, I haven't ever seen mike and Ahmadinejad in the same room....

by the way, in case it escaped notice it became personal pages ago.


2010-09-16 5:48 PM
in reply to: #3103122

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Buttercup
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Subject: RE: I'm curious about "hiking in Iran"
Johners:

I'd like to followup up on a question I asked of you previously, which you did not answer. If you don't respond, I'll take it as a sign you choose not to respond and leave it at that

  1. Do you accept that SF operators have prepared cover stories/lives?
  2. If it strains your credulity that a Special Forces operator would use an environmentalist, teacher or photo journalist as cover occupations, what kinds of cover occupations would you be prepared to accept?
Just curious as to what someone thinks is a plausible occupation for a SF operator to use.

This is a general question, could be applied to ANY SF operator.


Edited by Renee 2010-09-16 5:48 PM
2010-09-16 7:07 PM
in reply to: #3099609

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2010-09-16 7:35 PM
in reply to: #3099609

Expert
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Subject: RE: I'm curious about "hiking in Iran"
They could poise as NFL female journalists, and hot ones at that!  I'm just saying...

2010-09-16 10:22 PM
in reply to: #3099609

Master
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Subject: RE: I'm curious about "hiking in Iran"
I haven't read through the thread, but I was pretty much like these hikers when I was in my twenties.

I traveled by motorcycle through Nicaragua while the US was openly financing a war against the Nicaraguan government.  I was surprised I had no trouble. 

I road a motorcycle into the mountains of El Salvador into parts where the "rebels" who were fighting the government (backed by the US) controlled everything.  It was actually quite scary.

I tried to go to the Philippines during the revolution when Ferdinand Marcos was being overthrown -- I couldn't get vacation so I arrived a few months late....

I traveled through China back when most cities were off limits to foreigners.  I tried a number of times to get permission to go to Llasa, hoping a government official would make a mistake and let me go.  

I'd have crossed into North Korea if I had the opportunity.

If i were in my 20s today I might end up in or around Iran, hopefully not in trouble, and definitely not a government operative.



Brian

Edited by famelec 2010-09-16 10:25 PM
2010-09-17 6:09 AM
in reply to: #3099609

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.

Edited by PennState 2010-09-17 6:09 AM


2010-09-17 7:55 AM
in reply to: #3099609

Expert
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Subject: RE: I'm curious about "hiking in Iran"
Holy need-another-bag-of-popcorn Batman, this thread is awesome!

Great way to kill 30+ minutes!
2010-09-17 8:12 AM
in reply to: #3099609

Champion
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Subject: RE: I'm curious about "hiking in Iran"
Do Intelligence operatives exist? Most certainly!
Do people who like to hike in remote exotic locations exist? Most certainly!
Do operatives like to use relatively mundane and "blendable" cover stories? Certainly.
Are people who like to hike in remote regions often drawn to profession like Photojournalist etc. Uh Yes!
The Kurdish region has been relatively stable for many years and was used a as staging area for the beginning of the Iraq war, so it's not like these people were in War Torn Iraq.

So it comes down to what it the likelihood that 3 young people just graduated from Berkley were intelligence operatives or hikers who like to go to remote and exotic locations.  Having known people on both ends of that spectrum I vote for Hikers.  Is it possible they are some form of operative?  Certainly it is possible, I do not however believe it is likely.

 
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