Any first time marathon tips? (Page 2)

Let's say that 3:00 is more or less what your training will support as a good race time (assuming nothing goes south on race day).  In that case, I'd go out at 6:50s and hold.  Don't try to negative split.  Don't try to hold 6:45s.  Yes, 5 seconds per mile makes a difference.  If it didn't, we'd all be running 5 seconds faster.  6:50s is a nice even number (which you'll appreciate when you are trying to do the math at mile 20), and it gives you a tiny bit in the bank.

Don't obsess about nutrition.  If it were me, I'd probably aim for two, maybe three, gels.  (I take nothing but water in a half.)

At least up until mile 16, you should feel like accelerating to something like 6:30 pace and holding that for a while (couple of miles, not couple of minutes) would be no problem.  Don't actually do it, of course, but ask yourself whether you could (easily!) do it.  (If you get to mile 24 and you still feel that accelerating to 6:30 for a couple of miles is no problem, then you went too slow!)

Have fun!

Proviso 1:  The above advice is based on Nate's specific situation -- it is not generic marathon advice.

Proviso 2:  I haven't many marathons, and I'm certainly not an expert on marathoning.  The above is just how I'd think about things if it were me.

JC in Cinci - 2011-09-06 1:01 PM  I carried a cut-down straw angled at the bottom to drink out of the cups at water stops. Grab the cup, stick the straw in and then clamp the top together. (like your own little juice box ). Makes it easier to run at your race pace and drink at the same time. I carried 2 straws in case I dropped one (like I said...anal). Stuck them in a rubber band I had around my wrist.

That's a great idea! I'm always splashing water all over. I've carried my own bottle which is ok but I tend to 'clench' the bottle when I'm fatigued or going over a hill which is a big energy waste. If I had a straw and then do that little 'clamp the cup closed' move - I may get the best of both worlds!

Yeah, like your nipples.  Just sayin' after my experience from yesterday's 16 mile workout (I don't normally have the nipple chafing but I'm thinking it was the shirt I was wearing).

As several people have pointed out, it probably is wise to stay at a constant pace. The course is a little unique in that it is a point to point race with a net descent (a little like Boston, but not as drastic a descent). That being said, does it make sense at all to run say 6:45's for the first few downhill miles if my HR is at my marathon pace? The course profile is below (note some nice little hills right around the 20 mile mark!).

I love that idea of the straw for the cups - maybe I'll try that out.

Just eyeballing your training you look to be in the 3:00 to 3:10 range.  I don't know how hard you were pushing in your runs this month, but just looking at your times and race times.  Sub 3:00 is gona be a makeit or break it pace for you.  You might pull it off or you could go boom as this is your first marathon.  You have a solid base and some nice times on longer runs so I would say go for it, what do you have to lose.  You will know for next time what to change.  I think it would be really hard to not lose some time in those last 4 miles, but you have done all the work, worst case you slow down and finish 3:25 or so. 

Clothing, I prefer wearing my tri clothes for a marathon, nice and tight so not so much rubbing.  Do remember to body glide your waist band because of the race belt with gels on it may rub, nips are a must, but also under your arms where they rub on the edge of your shirt.  I don't body glide my feet at all.  They can slip more causing tonail bruising if you have a lot of downhill or if you haven't done it in practice. 

If you blow up on this one, just know that you can always learn and BQ another race.  You have strong leggs and a nice base, enjoy your day.  You should feel rock solid at 13, I have to focus to not drift between 16 and 20 and then from 20 on it is just fighting to keep from losing time.  It becomes a huge mental effort to not drop 5 seconds here and 10 seconds there when you are pushing LT the whole way.  

Bah double post.

You hit the wall when you run out of glycogen stores- not when you get fatigued or feel like you've had enough.  So- here's the deal.  (each person is different but these are some typical numbers).  You'll use up ~ 2900 calories during the race.  Depending on your intensity level, perhaps ~85% of that will be glycogen, 15% fat.  So, that means you need ~2500 calories of glycogen to do the job.  (you've got plenty of fat- even skinny people)  Your body will have 1800 of glycogen readily available in your muscles and blood at the start.  If you carbo load properly (a separate discussion) you may be able to add a little to that number.  In the end- you'll probably need perhaps another 500 Kcal of intake during the race, or right before, to get you through it.

Taking a Gel (100Kcal) at mile 19 where they hand them out is almost useless.  Firstly, it's too late.  Secondly, it's at a time when it's hardest to digest it.

So- the "I don't wanna' bonk plan" is to start eating and drinking early.  Start in on the sports drink at the 1st water stop at mile 2.  then more at 4, etc.  Bring your own stash of gels/block/beans whatever you prefer and eat a little along the way.  If you can absorb a couple hundred calories an hour- you'll have enough fuel.  You will not bonk.

Other choices;  reduce the intensity and you'll burn a higher % of fat to glycogen (that's how people do ultra's).  Increase the intensity, and take only water and that Gu at 19 and you'll be sure that your premonition (above) will come true.

My personal technique is twofold.  #1:  I wear a belt with a single bottle of hydration and shot blocks.  #2 I walk (for like 3 seconds) through every water stop and drink 3-6oz.  The other thing is to get the balance between water, sports drink and solids (beans, blocks, gel) right.  My body is fairly good about telling me if it wants sports drink or water.  And- always water with the blocks. 

I'll open my 8oz water bottle prior to the stop, eyeball a capable looking volunteer that's got the product that I want and give them simple clear instructions like "pour two cups in here".  Then say 'good job, thanks' as I run away.  Having water/drink with me on the run allows me to drink at my leisure and anytime I feel thirsty- increasing my ability to stay hydrated.  Having to wait for 2 miles to take a drink, and then forcing in too much is sub-optimal for me.

Funny thing is- if you finish the race with 50 Kcal left of glycogen in your readily available stores- you'll never know how close you came.  If you run out at mile 25- you will slow way down, regardless of how mentally tough you may be.  You're body just won't be able to generate the energy (from fat stores) fast enough to power you. 

bryancd - 2011-09-06 3:13 PM

Experior - 2011-09-06 1:01 PM

Let's say that 3:00 is more or less what your training will support as a good race time (assuming nothing goes south on race day).  In that case, I'd go out at 6:50s and hold.  Don't try to negative split.  Don't try to hold 6:45s.  Yes, 5 seconds per mile makes a difference.  If it didn't, we'd all be running 5 seconds faster.  6:50s is a nice even number (which you'll appreciate when you are trying to do the math at mile 20), and it gives you a tiny bit in the bank.

Don't obsess about nutrition.  If it were me, I'd probably aim for two, maybe three, gels.  (I take nothing but water in a half.)

At least up until mile 16, you should feel like accelerating to something like 6:30 pace and holding that for a while (couple of miles, not couple of minutes) would be no problem.  Don't actually do it, of course, but ask yourself whether you could (easily!) do it.  (If you get to mile 24 and you still feel that accelerating to 6:30 for a couple of miles is no problem, then you went too slow!)

Have fun!

 

Proviso 1:  The above advice is based on Nate's specific situation -- it is not generic marathon advice.

Proviso 2:  I haven't many marathons, and I'm certainly not an expert on marathoning.  The above is just how I'd think about things if it were me.

Great minds think alike.

Yeah, I probably could have just 'x2'ed your post, but I was feeling verbose...

I'm trying to figure out whether I should wear my fuelbelt. However, it is the four bottle one, and I'd probably only want to carry two bottles. On one side, it would be great to have hydration on my schedule, but there's the slight added weight and the fact that I'd have to refill along the way. I've also found that I can chafe pretty badly on longer runs with the belt, especially when humid (which it could be). At this point I'm leaning towards having gels on a racebelt and taking hydration from the course - there are 16 aid stations, so roughly every 1.5 miles. My usual routine is one cup to drink and one cup on me for cooling.

FWIW, here's what I've been doing lately on my runs.  I carry (just in my hand) a small (8oz, I think) bottle.  It is one that goes on a fuel belt (which I never wear any more).  I pass by a few 'aid stations' (water fountains) during my runs and I just refill at those, or I stash a few of these in my yard and run loops.  I am seriously considering carrying one during my next tri (which has an 18 mile run) because I find myself running much more comfortably when I can drink on my own schedule.  The plan would be, at each aid station, to dump one cup over my head (more if the station is long enough) and grab another to refill the bottle (opened in anticipation).  I've practiced this and it works.  The bottle is easy to open and fill while running.  In fact, it's easier to fill the bottle than it is to drink from the paper cup.

You sound like your pretty well prepared, alot more then I was when I did my first marathon a couple of weeks ago.

Biggest piece of advise I can give is too maintain the same effort or even slow down going up steepish hills for the first 30km. Should only cost you a minute or two all up but you will be thankfull come the end of the race!!!

After the race if your sore walking down stairs backwards is less painfull.

 Thou it can look alot silly to everyone who hasnt run a marathon before

Good luck!!!!!!!

I never wear a fuel belt in races, I don't like the added weight nor the way it feels around my waist for hours on end. 

I'll take a few gels/blocks with me (usually in a SPI belt) and hydrate on the course.  I've found that in most marys there are plenty of aid stations for me to hydrate as needed, and although I'm not as fast as you, I'm well enough in the FMOP/FOP that the aid stations aren't total chaos, especially after the first 3 miles or so once things really start to thin out.

Given the elevation profile I saw on this thread, I'd be a little conservative.  Even though it's a net descent, that hill around mile 20 is going to SUCK.  I just ran the Seattle marathon last year... there's a hill at almost the same point in the course.  Even though its "not that high", you turn a corner and see it and it's a mental crusher

(seattle.jpg)

Yap, this counts for every long-distance race/training you do. As far as fueling stations are concerned, check the details...what beverages/fruits/other will be offered. If it doesn't suit you, you should have something along with you for food.I am saying this because people tend to consume something they never tasted before and end up with a digestion problem before the finnish line. And then what?

Little bags with honey always come handy, dried fruits also.