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2006-01-27 8:56 AM
in reply to: #333094

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Giver
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Subject: RE: Headphones while running or walking

Isn't that what we all do? I mean, I've stated several times that I don't have statistics, so yeah I make generalizations based on my own experiences.

You're making generalizations based on your equipment: you have headphones designed to let ambient noise in. I'd venture to say most people don't have these. I use the standard i-pod earbuds, which I would venture to say most people who wear headphones *do* have (or at least ones that are very similar). Because I use more representative equipment, I'd say my generalizations are more accurate and applicable to the population as a whole.

In your example of country roads where you might see six cars an hour: I'd argue that on a busy street you'd be apt to be more vigilent. On a lightly used country road, you'd be more apt to zone out. On a busier street, you're less likely to be surprised from behind. On a country road, there'd be more drunk rednecks wanting to spook you.

As to your original question: I run on the street when necessary, because I'm a triathlete. I think it is safe as long as I'm vigilent (after all, I've been doing it for 20+ years with no instances). Having none of my senses impaired helps.

But again: do whatever you want. Unless you're in the Navy. Then you gotta play by their rules.

 

the bear - 2006-01-27 9:21 AM

 I think some of you (Jim) are making generalizations based on your experiences and applying them to others who use different headphones at different volumes in different situations. His "sidewalks are safer than roads" reference, for instance.I would speculate that my country roads, where I may encounter six cars in an hour run, and can hear and see them a quarter mile off, are safer than city sidewalks, especially if your sidewalk route intersects city streets.

You still haven't answered my question: Why forego the minute risk of wearing headphones but undertake the relatively huge risk of training on the streets?



2006-01-27 9:09 AM
in reply to: #332435

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Subject: RE: Headphones while running or walking

oneword - 2006-01-26 12:23 PM Just be careful about the volume, you can really wreck your hearing... having tinnitus from now on is not my idea of a good time !

As someone else who gets to spend every waking hour for the rest of my life listening to the equivalent of feedback from a PA system, I'd like to second this.

Be judicious in your use of headphones and earphones.

2006-01-27 9:36 AM
in reply to: #333127

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Subject: RE: Headphones while running or walking
run4yrlif - 2006-01-27 8:56 AM

As to your original question: I run on the street when necessary, because I'm a triathlete. I think it is safe as long as I'm vigilent (after all, I've been doing it for 20+ years with no instances). Having none of my senses impaired helps.

We can beat this thing to death, but if you were as risk averse as you indicate, there are other outlets for training (treadmill, pool running) that would take you off the dangerous streets. It just seems silly to me to accept 99% of the risk of "running with headphones on the street," then forego the other 1% as being too dangerous.

2006-01-27 9:48 AM
in reply to: #332144

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Subject: RE: Headphones while running or walking

While I am a frequent wearer of headphones while running, I have to say they do increase the risk if you are running on the road.  Isn't the primary reason most folks wear headphones during a run is to kind of "lose yourself" in the run.  I'm not sure if I am saying this in a way to make my point, but I wear my headphones to kind of take my mind off the sound of my feet hitting the concrete over and over.  Obviously then, I am not nearly as alert and responsive to my surroundings.  Case in point, while on a early morning run(still dark) I inadvertantly came up on a female runner in the neighborhood.  I assumed she heard me coming up behind but as I passed her she practically jumped into the next county.  Having a wife and 2 daughters I should have known better and I apologized profusely to the poor woman, but in reality, had I been someone wishing to do her harm I was on top of her before she knew anything.  Yes I typically wear headphones while running tuned to talk radio(yes I'm a dork).

 On the other hand, the times I choose not to wear headphones it is because I have alot on my mind and prefer this time to just think.  I honestly feel during these runs I am even less aware of my surroundings because I am deep in thought.

I think circumstances should probably dictate.  If you are running in familiar territory, with low traffic(ie neighborhood etc), and are comfortable with the surroundings then headphones are fine.  If you are running on busy city streets where you are unfamiliar with the lay of the land then it my be best to go with out.

2006-01-27 9:51 AM
in reply to: #333164

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Subject: RE: Headphones while running or walking
the bear - 2006-01-27 8:36 AM
run4yrlif - 2006-01-27 8:56 AM

We can beat this thing to death, but if you were as risk averse as you indicate, there are other outlets for training (treadmill, pool running) that would take you off the dangerous streets.

Careful Bear.  Have you ever tried to adjust the settings on your headphones while on a treadmill?  NOW THAT'S DANGEROUS!

 

2006-01-27 1:21 PM
in reply to: #333017

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Subject: RE: Headphones while running or walking
run4yrlif - 2006-01-27 4:08 AM

A, of course. Again, no statistics in front of me but more people die in carr accidents than do running on the sidewalk. The corollary to that is there are many, many, many (exponentially so) more motorists than runners on the road. It's kinda like the struck by lightening/shark attack example. Sure more people get struck, but then again more people are exposed to lightening threats...relatively speaking, there just aren't that many people exposed to sharks.

But as to your qualifications in B: on the sidewalk, low to medium volume. I thought we were tlaking about running on the road. Obviously you aren't going to be pestered by cars as much up on ths sidewalk. But if you are on the sidewalk, my predator example earlier applies even more.

And low to medium volume: what about those that like it loud?

My main problem with headphones (again, personally...do what ever you want), is they lead to obliviousness. When I listen to music, I'm much more apt to tune out my surroundings. For some reason, it doesn't happen when I'm in the car. Probably because the immediate threat of disaster is much higher when driving. BUt if I'm running listening to music, I just go away. But that's me.

And as far as legislating, the OP gave a military example, It doesn't apply to the "real world." When you sign up, you forego a lot of basic civil rights.

 

crusevegas - 2006-01-27 5:35 AM

Which is more dangerous:

A.     Riding/driving in a car without a helmet

B.     Running on the sidwalk with headphones on medium to low volume

 

I missed the part where he said it was on the shoulder of the road. I"ve looked but still don't see it.

Which is more dangerous, not which will produce more injuries.

 



2006-01-27 1:30 PM
in reply to: #333361

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Giver
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Subject: RE: Headphones while running or walking
crusevegas - 2006-01-27 2:21 PM

I missed the part where he said it was on the shoulder of the road. I"ve looked but still don't see it.

Which is more dangerous, not which will produce more injuries.

I assumed "accidents involving pedestrians" meant the pedestrians were in the road. Obviously, there aren't many incidences of cars running up on the sidewalk to hit pedestrians. Crosswalks are an issue, but it's common sense that you would look in all directions at crosswalks, headphones are not. I think sidewalk running and street running are different animals.

"Which is more dangerous, not which will produce more injuries." What's the difference? Are there dangers other than injurious ones? 

2006-01-27 3:05 PM
in reply to: #332144

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Subject: RE: Headphones while running or walking
Well, maybe I just didn't ask what I was looking for.

Are there any statistics to support the risks of using headphones while running or walking?

I can make all of the arguments, and I do risk management for a living. What I'm trying to find out is the actual risk to compare it to the overall benefit to see if the risk is worth taking. We (the military) take risks everyday that most people only wonder at. That is because we
1. Analyze the risk. (What is the worst thing that can happen?)
2. Prioritize the risk. (Is the outcome worth the risk?) (Do i really want to take this big tube of steel under the ocean where I can't see anything?)
3. Mitigate the risk. (Train everyone involved and practice practice practice)
4. Decide at the proper level to accept the risk and proceed. (Captain, request permission to dive)

So all of your points are well taken. But what I really need is the "Analyze" data to show the people who wrote the instruction that the risk taken to have the freedom to wear headphones while working out is relatively small compared to the benefits of encouraging more people to get off their A** and lead a non sedentary lifestyle.

Did you know that it is statistically more likely for you to get cancer from drinking chlorinated tap water than it is from secondhand smoke? Flame on on this one but it's true.
I just prefer not to be told which personal risks are OK for me by someone else, I am a big boy and able to decide for myself.

I pretty much feel this way about all forced safety precautions, in my opinion the stupid shall be punished and it is their choice, not societies responsibility to dictate. If the insurance companies want seatbelt laws because it costs them too much money in paying claims, then only sell insurance to and pay claims to people that were wearing their seatbelts. Tell someone there medical coverage will be voided if they don't where their seatbelt and problem solved, no government required.
2006-01-27 5:12 PM
in reply to: #332144

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Crystal Lake, IL
Subject: RE: Headphones while running or walking

Passingthought - people here are usually pretty good about providing links to statistical/empirical/analytical data when it exists to back up their arguements.  Especially on a topic that goes back and forth like this one has.  I would take the fact that nobody has posted such to mean that if it exists we don't know where to find it.  Or perhaps someone will prove me wrong by posting such now.

Although I don't think you'll be able to do much about it, good luck with your situation.

2006-01-27 7:31 PM
in reply to: #332144


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Subject: RE: Headphones while running or walking
I'm not sure that headphones make you anymore vulnerable to cars, but I think one of the things to keep in mind is that when you're running with headphones on, looking as though you're in another place, it can make you a target for crime. My friend- the cop- is always biotching at me about wearing them and how people will target you because you seem less aware- whether you are or not. But then, that depends on where/when you run as well.
Course, I still run through my sketchy neighborhood wearing an iPod....
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