20 minute Time Trial with Power Meter (Page 2)
-
No new posts
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller | Reply |
|
2012-01-24 12:31 PM in reply to: #4008199 |
Expert 913 Lost in the Evergreens | Subject: RE: 20 minute Time Trial with Power Meter Never try to change gears during a 20 min FTP. You will lose a few seconds during the chain jumps and it won't get any easier. It supposed to be hard, trying to make it easy is not going to happen. It sucks but it's worth it. Many find it simpler to mentally break the beast into three segments of 7,7 and 6 minutes each. The first 7 just focus on going hard but not going over the target. Don't worry that feeling of confidence will not last much longer than 7 minutes. The second 7 hurts. Stay focused on keeping the power and cadance right at the target. The final segment is hard and it sucks. but try to get above the target, and the final 3 minutes go as hard as possible. It's the last mile. You can taste the finish. Its your the last chance raise the bar. Breathe hard and ride for your life. It's not going to kill you. Edited by Fit4Infinity 2012-01-24 12:33 PM |
|
2012-01-24 12:38 PM in reply to: #4007625 |
Subject: RE: 20 minute Time Trial with Power Meter I agree with starting easier than you think. Being that you've had this PM for less than a week and this is your first test, it will be impossible to know how accurate your test is regardless of what you actually do. So just do the test so that you can finish it...create a baseline, train harder, and set a higher goal on the next test. Rinse, repeat...until you finally do a test that you can't finish. |
2012-01-24 12:44 PM in reply to: #4007625 |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: 20 minute Time Trial with Power Meter "The first rule of testing is to throw out the first test" -Bobby McGee You've gotten some good adivce here. Just do it, don't overthink it. At the end of the test you'll immediately think of how you'll do it differently next time. It's just a starting point, and your coach will give you good guidance. There are several different protocols that can be used, so just follow what's in your plan, it sounds like you are in good hands. |
2012-01-24 1:13 PM in reply to: #4007625 |
Veteran 300 | Subject: RE: 20 minute Time Trial with Power Meter Nobody mentioned doing a 3min all out before the 20min w/ some light spinning in between. The 3min and 20min results can be used to calculate your Critical Power. I did my first test of the year last week. Let's just say that it could have been better. And +1 for Watts/Kg. 250W of power for a 225lb clydesdale isn't the same thing as it would be for a 150lb-er. |
2012-01-24 1:17 PM in reply to: #4008379 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: 20 minute Time Trial with Power Meter YeaJackson - 2012-01-24 3:13 PM Nobody mentioned doing a 3min all out before the 20min w/ some light spinning in between. The 3min and 20min results can be used to calculate your Critical Power. I did my first test of the year last week. Let's just say that it could have been better. The all out effort depends on which model you are using - if you are using Critical Power, it is imperative that the short and long tests be done on separate days otherwise CP will be lower than what one could sustain for ~1 hour. Shane |
2012-01-24 1:19 PM in reply to: #4007625 |
Veteran 204 Massapequa, NY | Subject: RE: 20 minute Time Trial with Power Meter tremendous response. Thanks to all...looking forward to the pain. let you know when i'm done. |
|
2012-01-24 1:23 PM in reply to: #4008391 |
Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
2012-01-24 1:31 PM in reply to: #4008379 |
Subject: RE: 20 minute Time Trial with Power Meter YeaJackson - 2012-01-24 8:13 AM And +1 for Watts/Kg. 250W of power for a 225lb clydesdale isn't the same thing as it would be for a 150lb-er. W/Kg only matters for climbing. On a flat time trial, your power output and aerodynamic profile is what counts. Weight is of little consequence. |
2012-01-24 1:34 PM in reply to: #4007625 |
Veteran 204 Massapequa, NY | Subject: RE: 20 minute Time Trial with Power Meter who wants to venture a guess as to my FTP for this test? Some variables: i'm 5'10 185 (goal racing weight of 170); c5/c6 disc herniation which limits my aero position a bit; current training is about 8 hours per week; 1st week using power; new bike: 2011 Trek Speed Concept 7.5 with Quarq. Using a cyclops trainer in my basement; temp is 70 degrees F; and I will be cranking ACDC and/or Rage Against the Machine. I am in year 3 of triathlon, and all 3 seasons have ended with minor injury (shoulder, knee). I dont race often, but when i do, i am MOP. Sprinter by trade. i have never been beaten in a 100m dash, especially when challenged during a party. Long distance is my weakness, but also my new challenge. That said, there really isnt anyway of accurately guessing this until i do it once, correct? All of the bells and whistles aside, it's totally about my ability at the present time and establishing a baseline to be more efficient, no? I'm thinking too much. Just need to go and do this.
Edited by Dlyon 2012-01-24 1:34 PM |
2012-01-24 1:38 PM in reply to: #4008199 |
Pro 4828 The Land of Ice and Snow | Subject: RE: 20 minute Time Trial with Power Meter BrianRunsPhilly - 2012-01-24 12:44 PM Fred D - 2012-01-24 11:19 AM Dlyon - 2012-01-24 11:17 AM Yeah stick with what coach says. Let us know how it goes, the tests aren't fun, but the info is really useful afterwards. FTP is also a fun stat for pi$$ing contests lol.Fred D - 2012-01-24 11:03 AM Dlyon - 2012-01-24 10:35 AM That's a different protocol than Coggan's book I believe. I'm pretty sure just before the 20' TT that there is a 5' effort at >106% then 10' at 65%' THEN the 20' TT. What were your numbers?have not read read the Coggan book yet; just going with Coach's plan for now. trying not to overload my brain with analytics and putting trust in my coach. He's a 9-time IM with a PR of 9:30, so I do believe I am in good hands. I am planning to do this later today. I will happily post the results here for critique when i am finished. i'm sure it'll be ugly, but i really do appreciate the help. it's alot to digest.
Us smaller guys prefer to look at watts/kg. FTP by itself is utterly depressing.
Exactly. My FTP is certainly not sky high....BUT I am a mere wisp of a thing, so you kinda have to take that into consideration...... |
2012-01-24 1:39 PM in reply to: #4008430 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: 20 minute Time Trial with Power Meter Dlyon - 2012-01-24 2:34 PM temp is 70 degrees F Turn down the heat 20deg and/or open some windows down there! |
|
2012-01-24 1:45 PM in reply to: #4008430 |
Elite 3290 Oliver, BC, "Wine Capital of Canada" | Subject: RE: 20 minute Time Trial with Power Meter One more tip... make sure you got some real high energy, kick azz music playing loudly. |
2012-01-24 1:56 PM in reply to: #4008449 |
Extreme Veteran 590 Northern Virginia | Subject: RE: 20 minute Time Trial with Power Meter JohnnyKay - 2012-01-24 2:39 PM Dlyon - 2012-01-24 2:34 PM temp is 70 degrees F Turn down the heat 20deg and/or open some windows down there! We're gonna need a bigger fan. |
2012-01-24 1:57 PM in reply to: #4008430 |
Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
2012-01-24 1:59 PM in reply to: #4008443 |
Veteran 250 Florida! | Subject: RE: 20 minute Time Trial with Power Meter aquagirl - 2012-01-24 1:38 PM BrianRunsPhilly - 2012-01-24 12:44 PM Fred D - 2012-01-24 11:19 AM Dlyon - 2012-01-24 11:17 AM Yeah stick with what coach says. Let us know how it goes, the tests aren't fun, but the info is really useful afterwards. FTP is also a fun stat for pi$$ing contests lol.Fred D - 2012-01-24 11:03 AM Dlyon - 2012-01-24 10:35 AM That's a different protocol than Coggan's book I believe. I'm pretty sure just before the 20' TT that there is a 5' effort at >106% then 10' at 65%' THEN the 20' TT. What were your numbers?have not read read the Coggan book yet; just going with Coach's plan for now. trying not to overload my brain with analytics and putting trust in my coach. He's a 9-time IM with a PR of 9:30, so I do believe I am in good hands. I am planning to do this later today. I will happily post the results here for critique when i am finished. i'm sure it'll be ugly, but i really do appreciate the help. it's alot to digest.
Us smaller guys prefer to look at watts/kg. FTP by itself is utterly depressing.
Exactly. My FTP is certainly not sky high....BUT I am a mere wisp of a thing, so you kinda have to take that into consideration...... ditto that. w/kg does matter. even on the flats. and make sure that fan hits you where it matters. an overhead fan isn't enough, you need something blowing straight on you. |
2012-01-24 2:04 PM in reply to: #4007625 |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: 20 minute Time Trial with Power Meter Aero profile (CdA) matters more on the flats than weight. Weight matters more on the hills. Neither really matters for power development. Just deal with straight out power for the testing and look more into the other two when applying to to outdoor riding. |
|
2012-01-24 2:10 PM in reply to: #4007625 |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: 20 minute Time Trial with Power Meter I just posted a poll for you so we can have some fun guessing your power!! |
2012-01-24 2:11 PM in reply to: #4008430 |
Master 1460 Burlington, Vermont | Subject: RE: 20 minute Time Trial with Power Meter Dlyon - 2012-01-24 2:34 PM who wants to venture a guess as to my FTP for this test? 212 Just because I went 213 on my first test using power last week. |
2012-01-24 2:18 PM in reply to: #4008523 |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: 20 minute Time Trial with Power Meter AdventureBear - 2012-01-24 2:10 PM I just posted a poll for you so we can have some fun guessing your power!! |
2012-01-24 2:23 PM in reply to: #4008389 |
Veteran 300 | Subject: RE: 20 minute Time Trial with Power Meter The all out effort depends on which model you are using - if you are using Critical Power, it is imperative that the short and long tests be done on separate days otherwise CP will be lower than what one could sustain for ~1 hour. Shane If your all-out effort for 3 mins is different if you do it alone vs coupled w/ a 20min all-out effort, then I agree with you. If its not significantly different, then there's not much value in spreading it out. I don't think I've ever seen a formal testing protocol for CP that states that testing values must be done in a separate session. |
2012-01-24 2:25 PM in reply to: #4007625 |
Member 448 Clemson, SC | Subject: RE: 20 minute Time Trial with Power Meter Hey I just went through this same thing last week!! I've never trained with power, and never really have followed a structured bike training plan. I have only been doing base miles, so I really had no idea how hard to push or how to push hard. The thing that helped was following the method from the Allen and Coggan book where you do a 5 minute all out effort before you do the 20 minute test. This helps because it gives you an idea of how hard you can push and will also deplete your anaerobic work capacity to some extent so your 20 minute numbers aren't inflated. I did the 5 minute test at 260 watts (it was really hard, but I think I could have done a little better) and then managed to hold 230 watts during the 20 minute test. Before I did the test, I went to the thrift store and bought two big box fans to supplement the small fan I was using previously. During the test I had some loud music blaring through my earbuds and also had the battle scene from one of the lord of the rings movies playing on my tv. Yeah, I wanted to quit several times, but my power actually increased a little bit for the last 30-45 seconds. I was totally spent by the end, but oddly not too sore. Good luck!! Tomorrow I get to do my first round of 2x20's at 95-100%! Oh yeah, I almost forgot to add that I achieved my highest bike HR ever during the test at 200bpm!!!! That's only 5 beats behind my 5k run max, and about 6bpm higher than I've ever gotten it on the bike! Edited by beebs 2012-01-24 2:27 PM |
|
2012-01-24 2:29 PM in reply to: #4007625 |
Veteran 204 Massapequa, NY | Subject: RE: 20 minute Time Trial with Power Meter im going to wear my gopro camera while i test...real exciting stuff! my wife thinks im insane, but at least i can feel comfortable here at BT. |
2012-01-24 2:29 PM in reply to: #4008422 |
Veteran 300 | Subject: RE: 20 minute Time Trial with Power Meter W/Kg only matters for climbing. On a flat time trial, your power output and aerodynamic profile is what counts. Weight is of little consequence. So what's the takeaway here? Concentrate on raw power and your aero profile? W/Kg may only matter for climbing, but its not some sort of detriment riding a flat time trial AFAIK. Will you go slower on the flats if you are lighter, power being equal? |
2012-01-24 2:46 PM in reply to: #4008578 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: 20 minute Time Trial with Power Meter YeaJackson - 2012-01-24 4:29 PM So what's the takeaway here? Concentrate on raw power and your aero profile? W/Kg may only matter for climbing, but its not some sort of detriment riding a flat time trial AFAIK. Will you go slower on the flats if you are lighter, power being equal? The takeaways are: 1) Work to make your FTP as high as possible 2) Be as light as possible 3) Be as slippery as possible To more fully answer your question, 1 can be at odds with 2 and 2 is related to 3 in many cases. The bigger the athlete, typically the higher they can push their FTP but their W/kg is often eclipsed by lighter athletes with lower absolute FTPs. OTOH, while a bigger athlete will typically have a bigger CdA, it does not scale linearly with weight so often bigger athletes can have an advantage in a TT. Further good positioning and equipment selection can dramatically low CdA so the athlete can often attain a very aero position despite being bigger. If you think of the TdF, the climbers have the biggest W/kg while the TTers have the highest W/CdA. Shane Edited by gsmacleod 2012-01-24 2:54 PM |
2012-01-24 2:55 PM in reply to: #4008578 |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: 20 minute Time Trial with Power Meter YeaJackson - 2012-01-24 2:29 PM W/Kg only matters for climbing. On a flat time trial, your power output and aerodynamic profile is what counts. Weight is of little consequence. So what's the takeaway here? Concentrate on raw power and your aero profile? W/Kg may only matter for climbing, but its not some sort of detriment riding a flat time trial AFAIK. Will you go slower on the flats if you are lighter, power being equal? Shane listed the take-aways (and beat me to the rest in his edit!). It's not an all or nothing with power-to-weight and power-to-CdA, but a "more" or "less" significant depending on the conditions at the moment. They always matter to some degree. Edited by brigby1 2012-01-24 2:57 PM |
|